Details and Rumors of iPhone Restrictions Emerging 441
We're getting indications of the ways the iPhone will be sold (or not sold) and restricted by Apple and AT&T. Reader thefickler writes, "An anonymous AT&T store manager has told blorge.com that users will get their WiFi when they sign a contract locking them into a data plan and EDGE. Kiss your dreams of WiFi reliance goodbye." And our own CmdrTaco found an article up on AppleInsider reporting that the iPhone will not be sold through established business channels — forcing Cingular business customers to stand in line for their goodies, as individuals, at Apple stores. An AT&T Business Division rep told one customer, "There is no ETA on the [ending of the] sale ban to business."
uh oh... (Score:5, Funny)
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I hear every iPhone comes with a tool (Score:5, Funny)
Not so (Score:3, Insightful)
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Is this some kind of Jobsian plot, I wonder? There has to be a reason for all this silliness. Apple and AT&T seem to be doing all they can to kill the iPhone before it even comes out.
This HAS to be about money, obviously. But how?
Re:Not so (Score:5, Insightful)
But there's no way in hell I'm buying into the at&t EDGE network plan to use this phone. If I could have just bought the phone and relied of free Wi-Fi hotspots for data use (and preferably drop my T-Mobile SIM into it and keep my current plan), I would have gladly dropped far more than the $600 price tag to snap one of these things up. OS X "Lite" on a hand-held? Are you kidding me? Even without the phone, I would want it.
The other shortcoming is that the "best iPod we ever made" as Steve calls it, lacks enough storage for my music collection, let alone video files.
But as it is... Screw it. I'll keep toting around my 5th Gen 80GB iPod and my RAZR. Get back to me with iPhone 2, and if there are fewer ties to a ridiculously expensive (for what it is) phone/data service, I'll consider it.
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But there's no way in hell I'm buying into the at&t EDGE network plan to use this phone. If I could have just bought the phone and relied of free Wi-Fi hotspots for data use (and preferably drop my T-Mobile SIM into it and keep my current plan), I would have gladly dropped far more than the $600 price tag to snap one of these things up. OS X "Lite" on a hand-held? Are you kidding me? Even without the phone, I would want it.
The ability to use hot spots would definitely go a ways towards justifying a higher price. But what I haven't yet been able to figure out is why anybody except the most extreme junkies is going to purchase this phone. If it were available through normal channels, the price would be a minimal issue. Something like $400 versus $300 and not necessarily unreasonable. But with limited 3rd party developer support, a lack of exchange plugins, not being 3g, not being available directly with a new service contract,
Re:Not so (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't see it as a phone with an iPod & Browser in it.
I see it as an at-long-last replacement for the old Newton, with a phone in it.
If, by "the most extreme junkies", you mean 1 percent of the current cell phone market, then Apple hits their sales target for this phone right there. Get a few casual and/or business users on board, and it becomes one of Apple's most successful product launches, ever.
But they'll be doing it without me, so long as it's locked into high-priced, low-performance, long-term contracts.
Re:Not so (Score:5, Insightful)
The iPhone is not meant to compete against the Blackberry or Windows Mobile phones of the world. The iPhone is not for business customers. Instead, it's for home users that want similar basic functionality to a Blackberry or Windows Mobile device (something that handles e-mail, browses the web on an easy-to-read display, that sort of thing) but don't want it to feel like a "work" phone. Consequently, Exchange support is unnecessary, as is anything beyond basic calendaring and the like. If it can play a few mini-games, so much the better. It doesn't have support for a bunch of third-party plugins? Oh well - the home user won't need them anyways.
Now, what my coworker and I couldn't agree on was how many home users actually want that, and the reason for that is because this market segment has never been touched. Consequently, I'm curious to see how big the "I want a PDA but not for work" market really is.
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waiting is (Score:4, Insightful)
Stop sentimentalizing Jobs (Score:3, Insightful)
No,
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iPhone not a business/enterprise PDA phone? WTF, are you smoking dope?
iPhone supports:
1. Standards compliant web browser. Find me one on any other PDA platform, please. Seriously.
2. IMAP email (supported by every serious email server out there, including Exchange). Show me a nice IMAP clie
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Only if it's a subscription plan to a decent hotspot provider. If it's just 'enabling wifi' as TFA suggests, then it's bull. They have to compete against the dozens of phones with WiFi that have no restrictions.
It may be a side-effect of Apple's desire to make computing easier. On mobile phone forums most of the queries and problems people have are relating to WiFi connectivity. Perhaps Apple are wanting to hide t
It truly is a matter of taste (Score:3, Interesting)
I understand that some people love to tote around everything they have, but I think t
AT&T NBS sales (Score:5, Interesting)
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Whoah, almost sounds like Sony (Score:2)
Don't get me wrong, I'm waiting for that little phone to get over to Europe (Netherlands), I will gladly buy it (if I can)
(and it's not through T-Mobile)
Nonsensical statement ahoy (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure this statement makes much sense. Since the iPhone won't be sold without a (data-enabled) contract, shouldn't it read:
"Users will get their iPhone when they sign a contract", which has the advantage of being true, if less trolly.
Re:Nonsensical statement ahoy (Score:5, Insightful)
Talk about unreliable rumors, a store manager? There's only 5 or 10 of those in the country! How far down the food chain is that? This guys information is probably based on rumors of rumors. In other words, very possibly no relation to reality.
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"Users will get their iPhone when they sign a contract including both voice and data plans."
This has the advantage of pointing out that data plans are required. I know I've been considering getting an iPhone, but once you add a data plan you're basically at $80+/month. Of course, that figure is estimated using the current voice and PDA data plans. Throw in another 20 bucks minimum if you want to tether w/o violating their terms of use.
Without having actually tr
But... (Score:5, Funny)
I just wonder (Score:3, Interesting)
And lots of other usual apple customers probably are shied away by the contract enforcements connected to this thing.
I assume it will be the crowd who wants to have the latest shiny toy. I am not sure if this thing will be able to stand on its own after some initial success. Apple could have had a winner on this thing if they wouldnt have played Sony or Nintendo in trying to lock the user of this thing down!
It probably will come down to how fast the thing will be hacked open!
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no app development
We know this to no longer be true - 3rd party apps for the iphone can and will be created using methods similar to the way widgets are developed for os x. As to contracts.....why is everybody whining about contracts? *Every* phone that is not a prepaid phone requires a contract, and nearly all of them have draconian cancellation fees - why don't we wait until we have the actual details of the contract, rather than the word of an anonymous AT&T store manager.
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(PS: I don't think the iPhone will be contract restricted either)
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I bought my HTC Trinity P3600 last year from a reseller with no contract ($600, though). I added it to my T-Mobile business plan with no long term commitment. There is no contract to cancel if I decide to jump carriers. I have no desire to subsidize my phone's initial cost by giving in to 2 year agreements.
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An Apple cop-out. Application development means things like ssh programs, or irc clients, or spreadsheets, or VOIP programs, not silly javascript toys.
Untrue. I can go to damn near any decent cell phone store and get a completely un
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An Apple cop-out. Application development means things like ssh programs, or irc clients, or spreadsheets, or VOIP programs, not silly javascript toys.
Take a look at some of the widgets available for mac os x - many of them are compact, but nevertheless quite fully featured applications, including, but not limited too, terminals, vnc clients, and yep - 3D video games. I can't speak to what kind of object code will be allowed on the iPhone, but while the controller code may be javascript, widgets in the operating system are far more than silly javascript toys.
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Application development means things like ssh programs, or irc clients, or spreadsheets, or VOIP programs, not silly javascript toys.
Google Spreadsheet seems to work quite well. If things run as Widgets, rather than web pages, then they also have access to Objective-C libraries, and can easily open a socket (the only thing you need for an IRC program or SSH client that you can't do easily in JavaScript). VoIP might be a bit harder, but since QuickTime will be installed and accessible to JavaScript, I would imagine it would be relatively easy.
No more iPhone PDA (Score:2, Insightful)
Though I suppose they never have been one to give you what you want.
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But AT&T is EVIL (Score:2, Informative)
Oh well only those with the "evil" AT&T can get one.
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I used number portability to get AWAY from AT&T though...
Sorry. (Score:3, Insightful)
So, until Apple cuts this shit of giving one provider exclusive sales rights and allows Verizon to sell it, Apple will not have me as a customer.
I actually like Cingular *breaks out asbestos* (Score:2, Informative)
I like Cingular. I hate the fact that they're called at&t now, but I've had cingular plans with motorola phones for about 3 years now and I have had maybe 5 dropped calls, and about the same number of times when I've been unable to make a call. I do dislike having to unlock my phones, but then again afaik most providers have that problem. The data plan I use is $20/mo unlimited, fairly comparable to other providers, I think. I could be wrong o
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What is this story about? (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, with my Treo I'm forced to purchade the $15/month unlimited data plan from Sprint. It's required for all their smartphones.
So this story seems to be about.... A theoretical contract that is the same as the typical contract and may be unfair if the price is too high (but we don't know the price yet)?
Re:What is this story about? (Score:5, Informative)
Get the complaint straight (Score:4, Insightful)
Where I live we don't even HAVE 3G yet, so I don't need it. But I welcome the realistic combination of WiFi and EDGE to get the widest possible network coverage and the best possible battery life (3G currently really chows down on batteries). All these things add up to actually being able to make full use of data on the device, instead of carefully hording limited battery or data amounts.
I got my Treo through Cingular, no data plan req. (Score:3, Informative)
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They are doing this to prevent people from buying the phone, and not setting up an account with ATT, otherwise all you have is a over priced glorified ipod. ATT/Apple are pulling out all the stops to prevent people from buying the phone and going to another carrier, since the price is not subsidized, and many people want the phone, and are willing to pay a fortune for it, there is nothing stopping someone from signing up when buying the phone, and then paying the $175 early termination
Re:What is this story about? (Score:5, Informative)
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Yes, I bought an Unlocked GSM Treo 650 a couple years ago, put a SIM card in it from T-Mobile, later decided I wanted to switch to Cingular because their GPRS data was faster than T-Mobile, and I've been using it ever since.
If you want an unlocked GSM smartphone you just have to buy it yourself, pay the true cos
These are all just rumours (Score:4, Interesting)
Let's face it, if this were any non-Apple or non-tech product we'd all shake our heads at the sad gullibility of the purchasing public and move on. The fact that this is a highly anticipated product that's going to have limited availability isn't anything unusual in and of itself. Apple and Cingular are going to make a good bit of money, which is what they're both in business to do.
Cellular service providers have made it a practice to "strongly encourage" customers to sign up for multi-year contracts to get a better deal on phones, subsidizing the cost of the phones, for which very few people would be willing to pay full price. The WiFi restriction, if true, is just more of the same.
In any event, I can pretty much guarantee that there will be hacks to work around this. I've never owned a phone (much less a smart phone) that wasn't hacked to get around carrier restrictions.
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No one really knows for sure whats happening, and we will find out on the 29th, and I am sure the iphone sales will be phenomenal, but I also suspect a backlash when people find out their paying $100 a month, and t
Go ahead, call me a luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
Fair enough (Score:2)
Besides, my company pays for my BlackBerry, and a lot of companies have invested in BES infrastructure, so they won't be moving to the iPhone any time soon. We have yet to see anything from Apple about how the iPhone will tie into an existing personal database (like Exchange/outlook, for example) and manual sync, even over Bluetooth, just won't cut it for people used to the BES implementation.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
This is news? (Score:4, Insightful)
Anyone who thought they could get an iPhone without "appropriate" cellular service will also be disappointed to find out that the iPhone will not grant super-human strength either.
The iPhone has always been presented as part of a platform that included the cellular service. It was always tied tightly to the network. I don't know why anyone is surprised, then, that purchase of an iPhone comes with the network as well.
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The iPhone has always been presented as part of a platform that included the cellular service. It was always tied tightly to the network. I don't know why anyone is surprised, then, that purchase of an iPhone comes with the network as well.
In the GSM world, there is no reason for an instrument to be tied
to the network, other than the reason that the provider is
subsidising the cost of the phone. Even in that case, all that
provider can do is lock the phone. And locked phones can be
unlocked at a small cost.
"Insanely great" approach to sales? (Score:2, Insightful)
I'll soon be in the market for a new phone, and while I'm leaning heavily toward a Treo P model, I'm keeping an open mind for the iPhone, too. However, if they're going to play BS games like this, forget it. I don't need i
Steps to Get an iPhone (Score:4, Funny)
Crow T. Trollbot
Apple's secret recruiting plan (Score:4, Funny)
"iPhone will not be sold through established business channels -- forcing Cingular business customers to stand in line for their goodies, as individuals, at Apple stores."
Yeah, man. Like, you gotta wait in line with the rest of us. Hey, you mind if I blaze up? Thanks man. *fffffffttttt* Sure, I can spare a spliff. *fffffttt* Sure, I'll show you my Powerbook, man. Check out that widescreen.
And another business PC user is converted.
Talk About... (Score:2)
This just goes to make the iPhone just like every other mobile out there. The manufacturer's putth in great features, and the telcos taketh them away.
How long before iPhone unlocking code shows up, I wonder.
Well, good (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Well, good (Score:4, Insightful)
let's wait for an authoritative source (Score:3, Insightful)
that the iphone's key features might be disabled without a mobile phone contract is all too believable in light of how mobile phones are marketed by the wireless companies. it's one of the reasons why so many people (myself included) insist on keeping the phone as simple as possible and using a second device for the pda, camera, wifi, and mp3 functions. makes it easy to change carriers also.
however, before completely going ape over this, i'd suggest waiting until someone in authority actually spells out at&t's contracts and service plans for the iphone, or to see how an iphone actually comes out of an apple store.
at&t doesn't really need a contract since the iphone only works on their network. granted, the mobile phone company contracts don't require much of the carrier, but why would at&t make any requirements for itself at all when it doesn't have to?
as for potential ipod users who want iphone features without having a phone contract; i suspect that the iphone is only the first of a new generation of ipods. over the next few years, i expect the entire ipod line will get an iphone makeover sans mobile phone features.
Free Competition or Lock In? (Score:2)
I am the guinea pig for my family and companies, and AT&T doesn't realize the power I hold. I can either keep their revenue down, or I can multiply it many times over, in my own small way as a consumer.
If AT&T tighten the thumbscrews too tight on my iPhone account, my business & my family will not buy iPhones, because I will nix it. After all, my laptop and cell phone right now "does it all".
Competitors are not going to stand still,
Not going to replace the Blackberry (Score:2)
It's not going to dent the Blackberry market. Typing on a touch screen is misery. The iPhone is a mostly-output device, like the iPod.
Odd (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple release a possibly good over priced product with many restrictions through a patently evil telecom : OMG best thing since the transitor. We'll buy it at any price, with any strings. If Jobs gives us DRM We'll grow to love it.
Ahh that RD field is strong as ever.
Welcome to reality (Score:3, Insightful)
This is why, to me, Apple lovers that despise Microsoft simply because they are Microsoft are some of the most clueless people around (the same holds true the other way around, of course). Microsoft TELLS you they are fucking you in the ass, wheresas Apple hides it (and it usually works)
ALL buisnesses are in it for the money. Welcome to reality, bud.
No, it can't be true! (Score:2)
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Why they wouldn't have just released it as a unbranded GSM phone that any T-Mobile or AT&T customer could just throw a SIM card into is beyond me
SIM card? Apple won't even let you replace the BATTERY!
If you think it's only the nasty carriers that would make this a closed device, you're deluding yourself--look how "open" the ipod is.
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Would have been nice to see that indeed re: steve. not sure I understand why apple would do it this way--wouldn't it be even better for them if there was a Verizon iphone, a att iphone, sprint, tmobile, etc.
would be nice to see a cdma version, too
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and
ALL buisnesses are in it for the money. Welcome to reality, bud.
That's a pretty close-minded view that I believe many slashdotters share, but it is also completely wrong. Businesses are not "in it" for "the money" or just "for (financial) profit." Neither are consumers. No one enters a trade agreement without considering their own gain. A phone company has no reason to sell you a phone if they're not going to gain SOMET
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In general, if I were to criticize Microso
Re:Welcome to reality (Score:5, Funny)
To use a non-car analogy, Microsoft is like....Celine Dion. I mean, sure, I can concede that she's a gifted technical singer, but she has the aesthetic sensibility of a third-grade dropout Appalachian bootlegger who lost 90% of his hearing in a still explosion, with the rest of his faculties addled by methanol poisioning and a dose of the clap he got while stationed in the Pacific theater fighting the nips. (Hi, Grampa). Now, there are some people whose palate Vann diagram overlpas well with this, and more power to them. As for me, I won't allow that meliasmic dog sick in the house. And if that were the end of it that would be fine. Now imagine a world where you go to work and they pipe Dion over the PA; and after work you go online to your bank website to pay your credit card, and there's a banner that says "Sorry -- you must be playing 'My Heart Will Go On' to access this feature"; and then your so-called friends keep sending you email with attachements that plays a mashup of 'Ce N'Etait Qu'un Reve' and 'To Love You More'; and then, to get a grip on sanity you turn on the news and Rene Angelil is on Letterman talking about how Celine Dion is spurring 'innovation' by requiring the vast majority of mp3 player manufacturers to include 'Miracle' and 'On Ne Change Pas' pre-installed, along with preview tracks of 'D'Elles' that can, in some instances, cause malware to take over your player and play 'Power of Love' repeatedly at full volume.
So yeah, I hate Microsoft. That's The Way It Is.
This isn't new . . apple has always had lockin (Score:2, Insightful)
Apple has never had any qualms about locking anyone into things if it benefits them - same with many other businesses - ESPECIALLY cell phone carriers.
It isn't very nice, but it also isn't "new".
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Re:How odd (Score:4, Informative)
I used to have a motorola v200 and all I had to do was get a driver off the net and I could load the thing up with custom ringtones and not pay a dime for them. I now have a RAZR, and I still am able to load it up with mp3's, background graphics, java, and have full unlocked bluetooth capability.
I'm not trying to be a Cingular/At&t fanboy, but I think it can be said that some carriers are better than others. There is one carrier (I think it's verizon, but correct me if I'm wrong) that totally replaces the user interface of all their phones with their own in-house one. The new interface apparently locks most of the functionality and is much less usable than the standard interface, and forces the customer to purchase all the extras through verizon.
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That would indeed be Verizon. You can't do jack shit with a Verizon phone unless it comes through Verizon's "Get it Now" service. And Motorola/Nokia can't even offer full price phones to Verizon customers, because Verizon won't let unbranded phones on their network. Again, it's obvious how this helps Verizon (revenue from Get it Now), but how does it help the consumer?
I hate vendor lock-in, but I'll play Verizon's Advocate (they are in fact the devil):
You can't say they're just profiteering. Though the am
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Re:How odd (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:How odd (Score:5, Insightful)
Sony thought the same thing about the PS3, and look how that turned out.
Re:How odd (Score:5, Insightful)
- Look shiny enough to drum up interest for the iPhone 2.
- Finance the R&D on the (cheaper) iPhone 2.
Like the first generation iPod, it's not about getting a product out that will own the market, it's about getting a product out that will generate excitement and establish Apple as a player in the market.Re: (Score:2)
Re: Sig (Score:2)
There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage. What about the contest for "least prepared person"?
Re:DOA -- Bookmark! Bookmark! Bookmark! (Score:3, Funny)
I'm bookmarking your quote, dude!
I'll enjoy reading it again in the future, right after I re-read about how the iPod is dead.
--Richard
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I currently pay about $25 per month, total, for my phone service (by lumping into a T-Mobile "family" plan with some friends).
I don't want to pay $60+ per month for a new voice/data service
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B.
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Hopefully this isn't the case.