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iPods and Pacemakers Don't Mix

Posted by CowboyNeal on Thu May 10, 2007 09:35 PM
from the listen-to-your-heart dept.
Media Media (Apple) Music
fermion writes "The Register reports a study that indicates that iPods and pacemakers do not get along. While there do not appear to be any long term effects, iPods disrupt the operation of the pacemaker. It is noted that such effects have not previously been observed as iPods do seem to be popular with the pacemaker-wearing population."
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[+] Microsoft CEO Claims iPhone Will Be Bust 463 comments
Theaetetus writes "In an interview with USA Today, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer claimed there is no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. The article also deals with Microsoft's friction with the Justice Department, friction with Google, and the profitability of MSN. 'No chance. It's a $500 subsidized item. They may make a lot of money. But if you actually take a look at the 1.3 billion phones that get sold, I'd prefer to have our software in 60% or 70% or 80% of them, than I would to have 2% or 3%, which is what Apple might get. In the case of music, Apple got out early. They were the first to really recognize that you couldn't just think about the device and all the pieces separately. Bravo. Credit that to Steve (Jobs) and Apple. They did a nice job. But it's not like we're at the end of the line of innovation that's going to come in the way people listen to music, watch videos, etc. I'll bet our ads will be less edgy. But my 85-year-old uncle probably will never own an iPod, and I hope we'll get him to own a Zune.'"
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iPods and Pacemakers Don't Mix 25 Comments More /

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  • Ipod only? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by yakumo.unr (833476) on Thursday May 10 2007, @09:41PM (#19077739) Homepage
    Despite them being by far the most popular portable digital player, why would this focus purely on the ipod? how can they possibly be doing this, and it not be a problem for other players?

    • Easy... (Score:5, Funny)

      by adona1 (1078711) on Thursday May 10 2007, @09:59PM (#19077937)
      They did try to do the same study with the Zune, but were unable to find anyone to participate
    • It's because the iPod has DRM.

      (not only that; you should see how long it takes to copy a 17 megabyte file from an ipod to a pacemaker!)

    • touch sensor, maybe (Score:5, Insightful)

      by SuperBanana (662181) on Thursday May 10 2007, @10:12PM (#19078035)

      how can they possibly be doing this, and it not be a problem for other players?

      Well, for one thing, the touch-sensitive scroll-wheel is somewhat (though certainly not completely) unique. They use capacitive touch sensing. They utilize a low-voltage, low current AC voltage to measure the change in capacitance when you move your finger over the sensor. The googles say 102kHz is common.

      My "second generation" nano produces a high-pitched noise whenever it's on- it's noticeable if you have it within 2 feet or so of your head. I'm pretty sure it is the inverter that generates the AC current, but if it's 120kHz, that shouldn't be possible, unless there's a resonant frequency in the audible range.

      Maybe the sensor just happens to use a frequency that confuses pacemakers. Now that Apple is aware of the problem, they might do some testing and change it on future iPods.

      • Re:touch sensor, maybe (Score:4, Informative)

        by hazem (472289) on Thursday May 10 2007, @10:50PM (#19078335) Journal
        My "second generation" nano produces a high-pitched noise whenever it's on- it's noticeable if you have it within 2 feet or so of your head. I'm pretty sure it is the inverter that generates the AC current, but if it's 120kHz, that shouldn't be possible, unless there's a resonant frequency in the audible range.

        That's a known problem and you can get a warranty replacement. I bought one and as soon as I turned it on I notice the sound. Googled and found many people complained about it. I called the mac store and they said bring it back and they gave me a replacement with no hassles.

    • Re:Ipod only? (Score:5, Informative)

      by stephanruby (542433) on Thursday May 10 2007, @10:23PM (#19078133)
      Here is a list of at least 30 common devices [guidant.com] that would probably interfere with a pacemaker. This is nothing new. All pacemaker patients are told about this when they first get one. The iPod angle was just a way to get the story in the news.

      • Re:Ipod only? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by bay43270 (267213) on Thursday May 10 2007, @11:38PM (#19078641) Homepage
        Patients aren't told as much as you would think. When my infant son got his, we were given a list that basically included anything wireless. It wasn't until we asked around a little before we got more reasonable information.

        With that in mind, this article taught me something new. I had always assumed interference was related to the wireless nature of pacemakers. My son's is regularly re-programmed via a wireless device set anywhere near his chest. I had assumed if there was a problem it would be related to whatever memory was being programmed. The ipod article suggests the interference is just an interruption between the device and its leads. They suggest the interference won't cause lasting problems once the patient is separated from the interfering device. That's not something that was in the 50 page booklet that they provided with the pacemaker.

    • Re:Ipod only? (Score:4, Funny)

      by creimer (824291) on Thursday May 10 2007, @10:28PM (#19078175) Homepage
      Get real! The idea of someone with a pacemaker dying with a Zune in their hand is laughable. If fact, such a person would more likely die from embrassment than a pacemaker failure.

      • Re:Ipod only? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Misch (158807) on Thursday May 10 2007, @10:33PM (#19078197) Homepage
        Jay Thaker, a student at Okemos High School in Michigan, co-authored the the report with a friend of his father, Dr. Krit Jongnarangsin, an assistant professor in the Division of Cardiovascular Medicine at the University of Michigan.

        High school student & assistant medical professor doing the study. Probably not a lot of money to go around and get lots of devices there. Probably used what they had on hand.

  • iRobot (Score:3, Funny)

    by ghoul (157158) on Thursday May 10 2007, @09:52PM (#19077853)
    In further investigation it was found this effect is present only in the new fifth generation iPods when the red light is on. Apple has denied plans for world domination by sending signals to iPods to control peoples minds. "Ridiculous", said an Apple spokesman "Our brain control waves are on a totally different wavelenth than the heart stopping killer waves" Inestigators have also come across reports of a single iPod mini going around turning off the waves

  • Returns (Score:4, Funny)

    by Joebert (946227) on Thursday May 10 2007, @09:52PM (#19077859) Homepage
    And why are you returning this product today sir ? Has it quit functioning properly ? Would you like to trade it in for a new one ?

    Nah, it killed grandpa, I want my money back.

  • must be a slow news day.... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by blankmange (571591) on Thursday May 10 2007, @09:55PM (#19077895)
    so this is a valid study? a 17-year-old high school student tested 100 pacemaker-wearing subjects with only iPods (and no other MP3 devices)..... yeah...

  • This is a bit biased... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by msauve (701917) on Thursday May 10 2007, @09:56PM (#19077907)
    iPods obviously meet FCC regulations for RF emissions.

    The real concern is why pacemakers are made so they are susceptible to such interference. What happens when a user is exposed to an intentional RF radiator [wikipedia.org], which would be expected to put out much more power, and consequently cause problems at much greater distance?

    It should be obvious that more study must be done - at what frequencies are pacemakers most affected? Might an 802.11 device, for example, be even more disruptive?

  • Pure Sensationlism (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10 2007, @10:15PM (#19078051)
    I'm an engineer who works for a pacemaker company, and from what I've understood on this hype, the iPod is just disrupting communication with the cardiologist's programming station. "The equipment to misread the heart's pacing" is misunderstood as the pacemaker missing the heart's pace, but I believe it much more likely to be the programming station missing the real time EKG stream to the programming station. With the exception of that lone device, I bet the rest of the pacemakers paced and performed as properly as they could with a noisy communication channel. The communication protocols for the devices I've worked on are often wrapped with many parity checks and CRCs. And yes, modern pacemakers are even run through lengthy tests of randomly hitting them with a multitude of communication errors to make sure these situations are covered.

    So in short, this is just a poorly written and misleading article that is going to feed off the public's misunderstanding of technology.

  • Nothing like... (Score:5, Funny)

    by davidsyes (765062) on Thursday May 10 2007, @10:15PM (#19078059) Homepage Journal
    heart-felt music....

    (Captcha: "leaking")

  • No problems with my pacemaker (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10 2007, @10:20PM (#19078099)
    I'm 31 and I've got a pacemaker (implanted when I was 17) and I have not experienced any problems when using my 5th generation iPod. I don't keep the iPod on top of my pacemaker, either, but I can't recall ever having a problem when using the iPod. I use lots of wireless devices as well (blackberry pearl, MS wireless keyboard, bluetooth headset, etc) and don't experience any problems. Again, as the manufacturers of the devices and the pacemakers recommend, I usually keep the devices a few inches from the pacer (and most often use the phone on the ear opposite the pacer implant location).
    The study should include information about the pacer models and manufacture dates...perhaps these were very old units.

  • Regarding sensationalism... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by neapolitan (1100101) on Thursday May 10 2007, @10:54PM (#19078365)
    I am a cardiologist (a lot of electrophysiologists are interested in devices, electronics, and are quite computer-savvy!)

    msuave: Yes, a pacemaker or defibrillator is essentially inside a faraday cage already. They are generally titanium or steel encased, and designed to resist most radiation fields that are encountered in everyday life. However, faraday cages are not perfect, and the pacemaker has to have leads come out to thread into the heart. Just as you can use your cellphone inside a metal plane (also a faraday cage), some degree of radiation will be seen by the pacemaker electronics. In general, these devices are programmed by placing a wand over the device which essentially communicates by RF to the internal device -- if it was a perfect cage, it couldn't even be reprogrammed except by physically accessing the device (e.g. minor surgery.)

    AC: Agreed regarding the sensationalism. Our practice tells EVERY pacemaker and defib recipient a list of things they should and shouldn't do. We counsel patients to hold their cellphone in their RIGHT hand and only crunch it between their right shoulder and ear, as almost all pacemakers are implanted on the left side. In general microwaves are ok, and patients are given a letter and card for the airport, where they can be wanded. Quite clearly, if somebody puts another RF emitting device RIGHT ON TOP of the implant, it could cause some interference. No, this is not unique to ipods. Again, if you actually talk to grandpa, I'm sure he knows this, especially if he was implanted by us. :) This "research" is quite ridiculous.

    Finally, agreed regarding the description of the findings -- if it is just interrupting transmission of data to the programmer, this is a lot less dangerous than scrambling the internal signal seen by the pacemaker. The pacemakers are designed to recognize noise, again for the expected interference as noted above, and can handle this using many filters (e.g. something at 60 Hz is probably NOT coming from your body.)

    ----------
    Vetran slashdotter, ID #101.

    Wait, UIDs are not in binary?

  • lol (Score:5, Funny)

    by Dunbal (464142) on Thursday May 10 2007, @11:09PM (#19078449) Homepage
    While there do not appear to be any long term effects, iPods disrupt the operation of the pacemaker.

    I don't understand this sentence. Oh wait, this is slashdot.
    • Despite the fact that you've been modded into oblivion, I'll respond because it's a fairly common belief that people with heart problems requiring a pacemaker are always restricted in terms of their cardiovascular activity. In fact, pacemakers are often prescribed to treat symptoms such as exercise intolerance, and the patients who have them can often exercise just as vigorously as anyone else (barring other physical problems). A quick googling turned up this American Heart Association paper [ahajournals.org] which details many of the common misconceptions associated with pacemaker use.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I work for a pacemaker company and have personally seen the vast amount of engineering and V&V that goes into a new pacemaker. Pacemakers aren't just slapped together by a 4 or 5 guys in a weekend, and the FDA says "Yeah that looks about right." They are built over the course of years, by teams of dozens and dozens of hardware and software engineers with a mind numbing amount of V&V. Then the FDA goes through their literally thousands of test results with a fine tooth comb.

      That said, I think the

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