How Jobs Played Hardball In iPhone Birth 479
Carl Bialik from WSJ writes "Apple bucked the rules of the cellphone industry when creating the iPhone by wresting control away from normally powerful wireless carriers, the Wall Street Journal reports. From the article: 'Only three executives at the carrier, which is now the wireless unit of AT&T Inc., got to see the iPhone before it was announced. Cingular agreed to leave its brand off the body of the phone. Upsetting some Cingular insiders, it also abandoned its usual insistence that phone makers carry its software for Web surfing, ringtones and other services... Mr. Jobs once referred to telecom operators as "orifices" that other companies, including phone makers, must go through to reach consumers. While meeting with Cingular and other wireless operators he often reminded them of his view, dismissing them as commodities and telling them that they would never understand the Web and entertainment industry the way Apple did, a person familiar with the talks says.'"
On a general level... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:On a general level... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yup, you can expect Apple to fairly license [ipodobserver.com] proprietary control settings in a reasonable and non discriminate manner and help level the playing field in the cell phone market!
Thanks Apple for giving us more choice!
Re:On a general level... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:On a general level... (Score:4, Informative)
I didn't say Apple should license fairplay, I implied that Apple is not above using proprietary tools to lock out competitors (just like the cell phone companies).
Thank you for pointing out that Microsoft, like Apple and the telcos is not above using proprietary tricks to lock out competition. Do you really think anyone's surprised by that?
Re:On a general level... (Score:4, Interesting)
I didn't say Apple should license fairplay, I implied that Apple is not above using proprietary tools to lock out competitors (just like the cell phone companies).
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In what way exactly?
Errrrr right. You do understand that other vendor's can't implement fairplay don't you?
So?
It's an artificial barrier to something that should be easy. IE. If you buy music from one source, you should be able to play it everywhere.
That should be easy what?
I realise that English is not your native language, so you have a little difficulty following sometimes.
By "A technological barrier to something that should be easy," I was saying that Apple has an artificial barrier to something that should be easy to do.
Ohh, you mean like playing CDs on a tape deck - that kind of easy.
Re:On a general level... (Score:4, Insightful)
You don't have to license the Win32 API, because reverse-engineering for the purpose of interoperability is protected by the DMCA. You do have to license FairPlay, because a competing implementation would not only almost certainly run afoul of Apple patents, and because it would be an unlicensed copy protection circumvention device, and thus illegal under the same body of law.
You are welcome to attempt making another analogy.
Re:On a general level... (Score:5, Interesting)
You gave no good reason for this. Well, you would like to do it, but that doesn't make it right. I would like to punch politicians in the face and hit baseballs through the windows at CNN headquarters, but that doesn't make it right.
Forcing them to license their product is a violation of their property rights, which is a slippery slope. It also creates more government interference and regulation, which is the last thing we need.
Re:On a general level... (Score:4, Insightful)
"property rights" ARE "government interference and regulation". Property rights are granted by the government to encourage and reward innovation. I don't consider "you can't use this without paying me $$$" to be innovation.
The modern PC is a great example of how innovation is helped by open specs, but open specs help the market and thus society, not the creator. Perhaps the government should lighten up on their "interference and regulations" and we could see some real improvements in consumer tech.
Re:On a general level... (Score:4, Insightful)
Open specs do help the market, but that doesn't mean businesses should be forced to open the specs of their software. If consumers are willing to buy what's available, then open specs don't even matter.
Re:On a general level... (Score:5, Funny)
Not true. Two Zune owners would be thrilled. The other one thinks he's got a brown cell phone with really crappy reception.
Re:On a general level... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:On a general level... (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft "licenced" their DRM system to their friends and colleagues in a system called "Plays For Sure". You might have heard of that mess when reading up about the abominable Zune media player.
DRM isn't just bad for consumers, it's bad for hardware manufacturers, content providers and anyone attempting to run a media store.
Apple does give you choice: you can choose to (a) buy the song from the iTunes Music Store and only play it on iTunes or an iPod, or (b) buy the song from a bricks-and-mortar store (ie: as a CD) and play it where you want. If the device that Apple sells you doesn't do what you'd like, complain to Apple or buy another device (or hack your iPod to give you the features you want).
Re:On a general level... (Score:4, Insightful)
WTF? DRM is awful for consumers. It takes away your fair use, it takes away unfair uses, it generally makes life bloody inconvenient to format shift, etc.
DRM is dreadful for consumers, bad for content owners, but a boon for hardware manufacturers. (Sorry, the DRM on your music player isn't compatable with the cheapest music store, go and buy another player).
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Re:On a general level... (Score:4, Informative)
US telco's (speaking as an Australian who moved to the US in December) are up and down. On one hand, for A$200 (US$175), my wife and I get unlimited time to each other, and each of us to any five land or cellular lines in the US and Canada, unlimited evening time, unlimited weekend time, 2000 additional minutes beyond that, unlimited text messaging, and unlimited data, as well as free WiFi access at any of the provider (T-mobile)'s hotspots. On the other hand, it's amazing how horrible coverage can be. Major suburban centers with /zero/ coverage. Some areas where you roam onto another network (fine, esp. since you don't get charged for it these days), but in my office in Redmond I get nothing, while Cingular and Verizon are fine. Mind you, elsewhere, it's the reverse, and friends with those two ask to use my phone.
Re:On a general level... (Score:5, Interesting)
The wireless carriers in the US (and a few other regions) have been gouging the eyes out of customers simply because they have always been considered a premium service, thanks to the federal subsidy known as the universal service fund on landline phones. While the rest of the world commoditized their wireless telephone markets, the US wireless carriers turned them into crap shoot proprietary bullshit.
The iPhone (though I refuse to admit it is a good deal, or worth anything close to $500) is the first step in finally commoditizing wireless telephone service. Not allowing the carriers to screw up the phone's firmware is what companies like Nokia and Motorola should have done a decade ago. It is no wonder the wireless carriers are doing what they do, look at how easilly the FCC allowed SBC to buy out AT&T Wireless and then buy out AT&T long distance all in a 3 year period, consolidating almost every drop of the original baby bells.
Thank you Apple for your willingness to play Hardball. I am glad you can see through the corporate crap that is Cingular/AT&T/SBC. My only hope is that you can take the same approach to your own business model and look at yourself from an outsider's perspective, just as you have approached this problem with Cingular.
Not the first... (Score:4, Insightful)
RIM, with their Blackberries, were really the first ones to not allow carriers to screw up their firmware. It's really quite trivial as a normal user to do pretty much whatever you want with a Blackberry (provided you have a data plan).
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I have to confess that I'm really only concerned with that point of view and don't really care all that much about whether the mobile phone industry is "opened up" in some fashion or another. As long as the service provided is acceptable (it is) at a price I feel is not out of line (it isn't) then that about covers it for me.
From the very beginning all I wanted was a phone. I didn't care what games y
Re:On a general level... (Score:5, Interesting)
Do you realize that's the exact same attitude a majority of Americans had about AT&T before the break-up? When long-distance calls were easily over a dollar a minute and it was illegal to connect a non-telco handset to the phone-line in your house?
Your perception of what is "acceptable service" and a reasonable price is shaped by the status quo and, pretty much by definition, the status quo favors the entrenched businesses and systems.
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I work as a supervisor, and don't want to tell you how many people I've seen come in late for work, saying, 'I would have called in to let you know, but my phone was dead and I couldn't remember the number." There's no reason for that to be a lie.. there's no penalty for calling in, but two no-call/no-shows will get you fired. It's common enough that I've taken to handing out laminated cards with all our division's phone numbers.
I also see about one person every two or three months who's
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Apple didn't claim that. Glenn Lurie of Cingular did. [pcmag.com]
Steve Jobs is WRONG! (Score:5, Insightful)
Incorrect. The consumers are the orifices in the telco / phone maker / customer relationship. Everyone gets to screw them.
Anyway, let's hope the iPhone enjoys more success than the last Apple/Cingular deal mentioned in the article:
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When people complain about , I always wonder - why are you buying their products if you hate them so much?
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Damn right. I'll just carry my laptop around and look for an open Wifi access point so I can use Skype. Way to stick it to the man.
Re:Steve Jobs is WRONG! (Score:5, Interesting)
A better word: Cartel. [wikipedia.org]
Re:Steve Jobs is WRONG! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Steve Jobs is WRONG! (Score:4, Funny)
You can get it by having a monopoly, and after you have, you can have as much Sex as you want.
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Re:Steve Jobs is WRONG! (Score:4, Interesting)
Your Ludditism and lack of influence are no basis for generalizations about the needs of people who buy cell phones.
Re:Steve Jobs is WRONG! (Score:4, Insightful)
Regardless of those facts (since no one even needs a phone) Local TelCos have far more of a monopoly than mobile providers. In my home I have 2 choices in land lines, either the local phone company which has been a monopoly for as long as I can remember, or the local cable company, which is also a monopoly. For mobile service I can chose between a half a dozen providers, though that is shrinking faster than it is growing.
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Also, unless you get an expensive pre-paid phone service, you are still stuck with a 2 year contract. And you don't get a discount on the
Before we over analyze this.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Before we over analyze this.... (Score:5, Funny)
Still Two-Faced (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple doesn't have to sell them through Cingular (AT&T) or anyone else.
Bucking the system...my shiny metal ass.
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How exactly do you expect Jobs to convince a cell phone company to alter a fundamental feature of its network (voice mail) to support an iPhone-only killer feature (Visual Voice Mail)? In this world you have to give in order to receive. It's why he's a billionaire and you're posting lies on Slashdot.
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I think you have been badly redirected from FreedomIsForTerrorists.gov
We are on slashdot, a friendly community that value stuff like OpenSource, DRM-Free, Free porn and generally free everything.
Oh you must be a troll, sorry, keep up the good work.
Re:Still Two-Faced (Score:4, Insightful)
Getting a cut of monthly revenues...now that's the kind of thing that makes a guy a billionaire.
(And in reference to your sig, most atheists I know don't get angry about religion until it's used against them.)
Ignores carrier upgrades (Score:5, Insightful)
And then Apple would not be able to provide features like visual voice mail which require changes to the carrier network.
What Apple gets by partnering is concessions in network development they would never get if they stood along against all other phone companies. That is the value that Apple brings to the table, making complex things easier and stuff like network improvements to handle random access voice mail are part and parcel of that. If the iPhone were just like any other MVNO phone, it would lose a lot of potential for true innovation in phone development.
What will be really interesting to see is how the open Linux phones proceed, or if they run into roadblocks.
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Understand the term (Score:5, Interesting)
Your whole rant makes it apparent you don't understand what visual voice mail is. It's not iBiff. It's, well, voicemail that is visual - as in, you get to see a list of all voice mails you have currently waiting, and then you can choose to listen to any one you like, in any order.
Now of course this is not a new thing to phones, IP phones in particualr. But the cell phone industry? They support nothing like it today. To actually be able to randomly access voice mail is, in 2006, apparently a startling concept to cell phone network providers.
Making an unlocked phone doesn't mean being forced to limit yourself to the documented features of GSM. You can implement whatever the hell you want, and let the carriers decide what they're going to implement.
And the carriers can laugh at you, and the feature is useless. Apple cannot realistically build a phone, and then release it "hoping" that all (or any) of the ideas they have get implemented. They have to make a polished device first, so that people wll actually want to buy one. If they did not the cell industry would seek to kill it fearing Apple would gain too much power. Far easier to play to the greed of a single carrier and get them to do what is needed.
The Linux phone is basically taking the path you advocate. But I really do not think it would ever be in a position to dictate new network features the way Apple currently is by basically taking hold of a carrier and shaking some sense into a very stagnant industry who really doesn't understand device development. I say that as a user of various cell phones for years, which are uniformly horrible in day to day use. The Linux phone would eventually be better but it would always be limited in potential by what the carriers allowed. I am thinking the Linux phone will eventually be able to make use of the same features that are being added for the iPhone.
Also Apple is not just supporting visual voice mail, but also push email from Yahoo and perhaps other things we have not heard of yet. Allowing Apple to help design user-oriented improvements to the network is something that eventually will improve all phones, not just the iPhone.
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Are there any other features that require Cingular on the iPhone? I hate to think we're justifying the decision to lock the iPhone on a single feature most people could care less about.
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It's not like "voice mail" is some sort of open standard that anyone can implement and achieve interoperability with everyone else. That's what pissed off people when MS did it. They were poisoning something good. Current mobile voice mail systems are entirely crap, and Apple has convinced Cingular to help them build a better system.
MS changed
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As for Apple and GSM - their decision to go US-first represents how poorly they understand the cell phone market. Europe and Asia represent a far larger and more sophisticated market for the iPhone, so the decision to start it in the US was short-sighted and will lead to a less successful product.
why they sell through Cingular (Score:2)
Re:Still Two-Faced (Score:5, Insightful)
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Good guys bad guys? (Score:2)
Power (Score:2)
If anybody has half a brain they will stay away from this product for at least 1 revision - like most products, especially Apple.
And yes I own lots of expensive Apple gear.
It seems the Americans are getting screwed still on the contract, so Jobs didn't get all he wanted. The pro
When have poor products ever done well? (Score:5, Insightful)
The Cube?
Case closed, on your argument.
People buy Apple products when they work well. Over the past few years Apple has done a good job at producing products that work well for people. It's amazng how sales follow when you build something that works.
iPhone (Score:2, Funny)
I knew it! (Score:2, Funny)
What does Apple get? (Score:2)
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Looking forward to no more crappy software (Score:5, Interesting)
Just this weekend I decided to check an ebay auction on my samsung phone. I noticed that Sprint offers a "ebay premium" program for download. Guess what? It's FIVE dollars a month. WHAT? I already pay for internet access on my phone, why should I pay another dime to get a better view of my ebay account? If the phones came with capable browsers then this nickel and diming wouldn't be possible because the phone would have desktop-similar browsing capability. I think the iPhone is going to go a long way to helping consumers.
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I paid over $500 for this phone and it's a huge disappointment as a smart phone. As soon as I can get my hands on an iPhone it's a goner.
The posi
lawyers at dawn (Score:2, Insightful)
Looking at the slightest cause for a lawsuit - "trade dress" it seems the other manufacturers are playing with fire already.
For a fan of corporate porn (me), it's going to be fun watching th
innovation (Score:2)
Food for Thought (Score:2)
Alert the internet! (Score:2)
Jobs to Cingular: Stick to your knitting! (Score:3, Funny)
Odd (Score:5, Funny)
Slashdot: Arrogant asshole.
Steve Jobs: Our product is so good we want the whole industry to bend over backwards, kiss our ass, then take a good old anal reaming and for our customers to pay $600 for our product.
Slashdot: OMG!!1! you are such a massive visionary. please come here and ream me right now.
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PS3: Thinly veiled attempt to shove BluRay down the masses' throat. Would be $300 cheaper otherwise.
iPhone: Phone people actually want to use. First innovative phone since the color screen. Same price as other smart phones.
Rumours (Score:5, Funny)
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My Dream Cell Phone... (Score:3, Interesting)
I want the civilian version of this:
http://home.att.net/~wd0giv/Phones/ta838.jpg [att.net]
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What you're looking for is a Motorola i560 [motorola.com]. "The i560 meets rigorous US Mil Specs for dust, shock, vibration, high and low temperature, low pressure and solar radiation." There's a "Maximum Capacity Battery" option with 5 hours of talk time or 130 hours of standby.
It's available for Nextel.
Nah, they copied Microsoft (Score:2, Offtopic)
What, throwing chairs isn't hardball?
iHardball (TM) (Score:2)
Re:Reality Disortion Field spreading (Score:4, Insightful)
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I'll second that motion. The most common features I need are gazillion menus down in my Motorola phone. People keep talking about how iphone "lacks features", but feature O.D. is a Microsoft trait, not an Apple one. If you want quantities of features, regardless of how easy it is to use them, then Apple products are probably not for you.
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IMO, it beats Windows & Linux pretty easily. Also, compare iTunes/iPod to the rest of that market. The rest of that market is a joke, and for the most part, phones suck. The last phone I liked had a black & white interface and it didn't do anything more than make phone calls (the 6160). The rest of the phones have just been a mess. I've tried both Treos and Blackberries, and they make things too hard (yes, I can figure them out, but it should be easy - quit
Re:Reality Disortion Field spreading (Score:5, Interesting)
That is what will sell the iPhone. For every geek who looks at the iPhone and says "Bah! My free-as-in-speech, open-source, ugly orange phone with the stupid name (OpenMoko) will do all that and more! The iPhone is crap!", there will be 100 normal users who try it out and say "Goddamn, this phone is so much easier to use than the POS I have now. I'm buying one."
I am by no means technically illiterate - I'm a computer science major at MIT. But I have long since lost my patience for fighting with badly-designed, badly-engineered, badly-implemented consumer electronics. I will be buying an iPhone when it comes out, because like all of Apple's recent products, it will 'Just Work'.
It will be a hybrid iPod/cell phone/PDA with no sacrifices in functionality, compared to carrying around three separate devices. As Jobs mentioned in his keynote, the price is still cheaper than buying a smartphone and iPod Nano separately.
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Translation -" I know nothing about UI design, and are pleased to advertised the level of my ignorance."
You also seem to have
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Yes, and how do you transfer files to it? Either you drag files manually into weirdly laid-out folders, or you have to use some kind of flaky, slow, ugly application the manufacturer had some moron throw together, with bitmapped graphics all over the place.
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It's like you're saying that all cars are the same because they can all get you to your destination, will keep you hot or cold, and will let you play the radio. Never mind how fast they accelerate, what the fuel mileage is, how well the AC works, how good the speaker system is, how reliable it is. A Kia Rio and a BMW 335i _tech
Expandible vs. usable (Score:3, Interesting)
They also can sync via USB or even bluetooth to computers. Yet people hardly sync anything over this connection. The more advanced among us actually make use of address books and contact lists.
But wouldn't it be great if many more people could make use of a lot of storage and computer syncing through an interface they use today? iTunes phone syncing means that a lot more people will be able to access
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That's why Vista's UI is so great, right? I've seen it on several machines now, and it's a freak
The evolution of approach (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh, Apple touched it - and found out what happens when you let tradition cell-phone design take place. Not even Apple can come up with a usable device through the process. This of course dispells the notion that people buy things just because APple is involved with them - people buy Apple devices when the work well, not when they suck.
Notice they were able to learn from thier mistake, which is what
Re:Reality Disortion Field spreading (Score:5, Informative)
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They said you can buy apps (Score:3, Interesting)
Frankly I also think users will be able to move Dashcode creations onto the iPhone, I would be very surprised if that was not the case. For me that eliminates a lot of
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That's just Apple FUD. I have never had an app bring down any of my Java MIDP handsets (NEC e606, NEC e616, Sony Ericsson Z800i, Nokia 6280). The systems are designed very carefully to avoid the possibility of apps bringing down the RF stack or screwing with basic phone functionality. Maybe the iPhone OS is just poorly
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I wasn't clear enough, I guess (Score:3, Interesting)
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. My point is that these assertions are total bullshit. I've been using unlocked phones on Cingular for many years, and I am using three different unlocked, fully programmable phones righ