Apple TV to be a Centrally Controlled P2P Network? 165
Rolgar writes "PBS' Bob Cringely theorizes that since the Apple TV will be an always-on device with a 40GB hard drive, Apple may move to content distribution via a P2P network. The ISPs will incur higher bandwidth locally, possibly lose some subscribers to cable TV, but have fewer costs through the Tier II Internet backbone providers. Bob also expects that Google will be involved with their fiber network and advertising expertise, and my hope is that they'll bundle in YouTube content as well. The article suspects that they won't get around to announcing the full details of this plan until they hit a half million units or more, and that this Apple and Google pairing will become the equivalent of a cable TV provider with almost none of the infrastructure costs. Eventually, he hopes, we'll see a real HD revolution from Apple and Google for this service." If Apple rolled something like this out to the service, would you bite on it? What would it take you to move to this over Tivo or MythTV?
No, I would not bite... (Score:2, Insightful)
>What would it take you to move to this over Tivo or MythTV?
I will not pay for any "service" above and beyond my normal ISP fee in order to receive content. I can get all the content I want for free just by having a connection to the internet.
The only way I would subscribe to this service is if it was free.
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Hey, I heard your neighbors car is available for free also. You can walk outside right now and take it. He left his keys in the ignition.
For that matter, you have 4 other neighbors on your street that regularly leave their doors unlocked. Lots of free stuff to be had.
In Time & On... (Score:2)
I'm tired of the B.S., indecipherable controls, policies, unusable channels and the need to sit down or record in real time when the content is deemed fit to be distributed by some provider that decides it knows when it is best for ME to sit and watch/record.
Re:In Time & On... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:In Time & On... (Score:5, Interesting)
While I agree on geek principles, I don't see how a keyboardless box like the iTV would be able to connect to any streaming software source the user might have, at least not without a lot of PC-end configuration. That sort of thing completely trumps Apple's ease-of-use principle, which is practically the First Commandment of their business.
On the other hand, iTunes is free, and Quicktime supports plugins and can handle just about any codec you want (disclaimer: I'm a Mac user and I know firsthand that there's plenty of things VLC plays better). So for the average user there's little to complain about, and for the non-average geek there's better ways to do what iTV does without buying iTV at all.
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But for your average user, figuring how to get that latest episode of The Office into iTunes? I get the feeling a lot of people will skip it as they'll feel it's really focused towards buying movies/shows off iTunes. And it kind of is, as iTunes doesn't really handle video conversion on its
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Bitorrent is not the answer. (Score:2)
There is no way Apple will go the p2p route. When a user selects a video it should start playing in under a minute. Any
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I'm paying for distribution now, too? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:I'm paying for distribution now, too? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I'm paying for distribution now, too? (Score:4, Interesting)
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If by discount you mean free after someone figures out how to share movies to people that didn't pay for them?
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I think I remember reading a rumor before they came out with tv shows on itunes that the next itunes was to going to have something built in to let people share like bittorrent and get itunes store credit for doing this with the files they had bought.
Now:
1) It was a rumor a long time ago.
2) If you don't purchase anything from the iTunes store you probably could care less if the rumor was true or not.
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Assuming Apple would implement such a thing, I'm pretty sure it would be voluntary. After all, all current file-sharing software makes it optional to share your downloads with others--on the other hand, others have the option of not sharing with you under those circumstances.
Faster (Score:2)
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Most people would get fast download times. Sounds like a good service to me.
Not agreeing with the choices of most, but it does make good business sense to make most of your customers happy.
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Democracy with a base (Score:2)
Aha, but what Democracy (and any really pure torrent based thing) can run afoul of is non-poopular items that have only a few, very slow, seeds (on second reading I'm not sure if you were talking about the actual player, but the point stands).
What commercial torrents could bring to the table is a gauranteed base speed
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First, unless you're running a botnet or torrent server from your house [both bad ideas] most of the bandwidth is "wasted" (i.e. unused) anyway. Second, by participating in the system you get your own movies faster as well.
If improved performance for yourself (getting your movie when you want it) isn't a big enough benefit, then don't buy one.
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- a big file server cluster at a single data center with a big pipe out to the entire internet. No matter how big the pipe and server cluster at the source, you've got network bandwidth constraints on getting to you at your ISP aside from your last mile connection.
This single source solution does not allow for efficient huge file distribution over the entire Internet unless each ISP can cache many huge files: I doubt many do althou
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Of course, if Apple had listened to him in the past they'd either be another PC manufacutrer, or just plain bankrupt.
My tag for this article is 'makingstuffup'. That's all he's doing. Don't attach anything in this article to Apple, as if they support, endorce, or have even considered it. They haven't, as far as we know.
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But Apple is a PC manufacturer! What do you think they make super computers? or bog standard intel based computers?
better than ... how? (Score:3, Interesting)
* Find content on the Internet or other places (via whatever means)
* Download/aquire (again, however you need to)
* Watch on your TV (via any network-attached device or stand-alone DVD player that supports lots of codecs and can be controlled with a remote)
The only things outlined in TFA that differs from this is
* What is available is controlled by some bullshit companies who will have your worst interest at heart
* You have to watch ads
* You have to pay for downloads
* Apple and Google spy on you
Er, um
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iTunes CAN do DivX (Score:3, Interesting)
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Once you get the file into iTunes, iTunes' "Convert for iPod" command would do the trick. The downside is that it is slow and doesn't give you any control over the encoding, but it is the simplest thing that will definitely work. I know, I know, transcoding is bad, but it means that getting movies onto an AppleTV will only be as difficult as you want it to be.
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I agree that this option would be available but if you've ever used it you probably would not be surprised if some might deem it irrelevant. Remember this is most likely to be viewed not on an iPod but on a big screen where any imperfections would be magnified. I've found such converions, even for the video iPod and PSP to be very disappointing. Added to that is the incredibly long time it often takes to do the conversion (hours). On the other hand I've f
Re:better than ... how? (Score:5, Insightful)
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No, what I'm talking about is the act of watching filmed scenarios, or whatever else the good artists of the world create in their infinite inventiveness in order to have people see.
What I'm talking about is participating in culture, and
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Odd. It sure sounded like you were talking about pirating copyrighted material. And now it sounds like you're trying to justify it with a smokescreen of psuedo-intellectual garbage.
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Am I claiming that the current "content distribution system" as you see it is as
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Copyright law works the way it does because of a lot of factors, a large one of which is lobbying by people who came up with ways they could make money off of it an
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I'm sorry, but you did: "Am I claiming that the current "content distribution system" as you see it is as bad as foot-binding, slavery, or Nazi-ism? Not at all. But no matter: you'd defend them anyway, like you defend this."
A VERY small part was some sort of planned-out way to encourage artists or some sort of philosophical ideological agreement about inherent ownership of ideas or expression.
If by "a very small part" you mean Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the U.S. Constitu
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You said "The idea of copyright has always included the moral rights of the creator." But your quote from the constitution makes no claim to such a moral right -- monopoly power is given
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Instead of just accusing people of supporting Nazism and slavery, you're also accusing them of being unable to think for themselves? You really are an asshole.
But your quote from the con
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How is this better than the following workflow...* Watch on your TV (via any network-attached device or stand-alone DVD player that supports lots of codecs and can be controlled with a remote)
Currently most people don't have an easy way to perform this step. Most people do not have their computer connected to their TV. Geeks like us do, normal people don't. Most people don't want to burn a DVD or VCD every time they want to watch something. Apple's device is a way to connect the computer to the TV, witho
"Bob"? (Score:4, Informative)
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Cringely:
Of course this is a long story, but the compressed version is that I did every bit of my PhD including the paper and the defense. Coming out
Simple. (Score:4, Insightful)
Basically, it'd have to be MythTV.
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I moved away from Windows because I was sick of not having control over my own computer. I will NOT switch to another closed source proprietary system just because a bunch of mindless sheep have declared it to the new trendy platform over the last closed source propr
Re:Simple. (Score:5, Insightful)
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BTW. No one is blaming the develop
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Not really. I've been (attempting) building MythTV boxes for several years now. I've tried Knoppmyth, vanilla debian, redhat, gentoo, ubuntu, none work for me. KnoppMyth is just my last straw and the one I tried to use because I figured (incorrectly) a mythfill --manual might have better luck on a system that claims functionality out the gate. Don't get me wrong, I've never purchased windows and I use Ubuntu and OSX at home. I am a long time proponent of Open So
re: switching from Myth? (Score:2)
I'm not a programmer/developer, so the fact Myth source is available means about zilch to me. I'm just as "stuck" relying on others to add new features to Myth as I would be if I was waiting for Apple or some other company to add them.
But the ability to rip and store compressed versions of all my movie DVDs, ready f
What the iTV needs (Score:1)
Right now though, I have to buy them off the iTunes store for a much higher price. Given I can get rent 2 DVD's from hollywood for $4 and don't need to buy an iTV, I'm sticking with that option.
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That's because we feel those directions by perceiving small differences in time and strength between both ears, we can't move our ears like dogs or something like that.
I still remember the matchbox demo, with that little thing going over my head, behind me, under me, and so on.
With crappy speakers, you will only hear front sound, that's a given p
Suddenly it doesn't seem like such a waste (Score:5, Insightful)
$299 for a 24/7 torrent node that replaces a PVR? Hmmm.
I'd buy THAT for $299.
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Would I? (Score:1)
Leave TiVo? No Way (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple TV, from all the reports I've read, sounds spectacularly weak. I don't expect it to ever succeed.
Conjecture: "Apple TV" is the Newton of Apple's play into the convergence market. A cute idea, nice try, but they totally blew it. Apple will likely go back to the lab and come out with something that doesn't suck so much, just as they did with the iPod.
Crispin
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That's because you're thinking it should be a PVR, and it's not. Apple could easily build in that functionality, and IMO probably wants to--but Apple doesn't want to step on the toes of those media providers hosted by the iTunes Store.
Basically, they can offer old TV for sale on iTunes or record new TV via PVR software, but not both. Not without the blessings of those media companies, anyway, and that's n
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They can have my TiVo when they pry it from my cold dead hands.
A few years back I was looking at a device to record TV and basically function as a Tivo. I looked at MythTV, Tivo, Windows Media Edition, and a couple of others. When I looked into Tivo, I was pretty disappointed. They want you to pay a monthly subscription or a big chunk of change up front, with no guarantee the service will be any good in future. You have to jump through hoops to enable the skip ahead/back and the times are not easily conf
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Parent needs to be heavily modded as "Troll."
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Um, no. That patently false - most TiVo owners are actually end users buying them despite the cable systems' pushing other, crappy DVRs.
Read what I wrote. Just because most Tivo are used by individual buyers does not mean individual buyers are their biggest customers. Any given retail store or even store chain sells fewer units than Comcast alone, or Cablevision. As a result, Tivo seems willing to make compromises for those buyers.
Parent needs to be heavily modded as "Troll."
Yeah, because making 30
Maybe, depends on Fees (Score:1)
Not a replacement for Tivo (Score:4, Insightful)
And...? (Score:1)
......would you bite on it? (Score:2)
Fully clothed (Score:2)
SO what you are saying is in fact the Emperor has plenty of clothes, you just don't like what they are wearing.
Fine but do not dismiss the fact that there are plenty of do like what they (and other studios) have to offer.
The battle is not over a small group of art-house fanati
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I think that's exactly the reason: with iTunes you only buy the songs, tv shows, or movies you want to watch, not the 90% crap that you don't.
Cost (Score:2, Interesting)
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The offerings just coming on the market are targeted at "average" usage, but the drivers of this technology are not average. I have hundreds of videotapes and thousands of CDs. If you try to restrict me to "average" habi
Obviously hasn't seen Apple's presentations (Score:5, Informative)
If Apple really wanted to put out a p2p distribution node, an easier solution would be to just release it as an update to iTunes. Then they aren't limited to only the AppleTV nodes.
40 GB + Hi Def? (Score:2, Insightful)
P2P buzzword swarming (Score:4, Funny)
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Downloadable TV is the future, bye bye networks. (Score:2)
Channels buy the rights to syndicated repeats and programming made by outside production companies, then sell ads during these programs to make money. It's all very inefficient.
Downloadable television cuts out the network middle man. You can buy content directly from the producers, ad free if they want to offer it that way. In such a world Futur
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I agree, but there is a complication. hugh speed Internet access in the US is a pile of dog crap. The only reasonable choice I have is to go with my local cable provider (half the price of DSL). Cable internet+basic TV service is $10 cheaper than just cable internet access; so I'm forced to buy programming to get internet. Downloadable television may cut out the middle man, but for many people like myself, only after they've already been paid once.
Here's how I see the market changing. Right now the US is t
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TV is a passive experience. People (like me) want to flip channels until I settle on something interesting. I do not have a list of shows I want to watch, and I don't want the experience you describe.
The same could have been said about music playlists versus the radio a few years back, but a I know an awful lot of people who don't listen to the radio anymore and who just start up an mp3 playlist when they want music. I do think there will be a place for TV "channels" much as there is a place for streamin
Does Cringely even read? (Score:2)
Um, it's called "caching". From Apple's own website:
Open iTunes and Apple TV appears in your devices list, ready to sync. Set iTunes to sync unwatched TV shows, movies, and podcasts. Set it to sync new purchases. Or manually select what you want to watch. Set your syncing preferences once and Apple TV automaticall
No SD output. (Score:4, Informative)
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I'll wait on this until I have a real reason to buy a new tv which I can justify better than "but but i want one!"
[*] I say that with a complete wild-ass handwaving guess that a decent LCD tv is going to run me around 1700ish, having not even priced one recently. Whet
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WTF?... it _has_ component output..
http://www.apple.com/appletv/connect.html [apple.com]
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I was on the fence (Score:2)
Democracy Player (Score:2)
Of course Bob's saying that this is going to not be DRMed. So if Apple is sending me pre-release videos which aren't DRMed without my consent, how do they charge me for it? If Suncoast did this via fedex they wouldn't have a leg to stand on when they billed me.
Moving to Apple TV (Score:2, Insightful)
My 2 cents.
Free Content and Live Events (Score:2, Insightful)
There are two small issues that I think should be addressed before I ditch Basic Cable, although there are enough perks to make me start thinking about ditching anything above and beyond that.
1.) Free Content.
I know the iTunes store has some 'Free' content that it bandies about, but sometimes I just need to throw the TV on to have something playing in the background. It doesn't have to
It all comes down to content (Score:2)
So if Apple continues to offer just a few shows, the way they do now, with limited resolution, I'd have to think whether I really have a use for this device. After all, I can buy shows to download to my XBox 360 (often in HD), and TiVo is about to start offering a similar service, so if Apple is offering just another video download service with a fairly limited inventory (like what they now offer
Why bring MythTV into it? (Score:2)
Y'know, its hard to see where the big overlap in potential customer base between homebrew MythTV boxes and AppleTV lies...
What MythTV does for me is near-perfect timeshifting of free-to-air (modulo UK TV license fees) digital terrestrial TV, with all sorts of auto-scheduling goodness. Unless I've missed something, this is not what AppleTV is offering.
Now, if AppleTV (if/when it launches in the UK) offers me a reasonably-priced way of seeing (say) individual episodes of US Sci-Fi shows or recent movies wit
MythTV frontend (Score:2)
Stupidest troll EVER from Cringley (Score:5, Insightful)
The new Apple TV media extender is supposed to ship this month, perhaps even by the time you read this column, and if you are like me you are wondering what that 40-gig hard drive is doing inside. I'm guessing we won't know for sure until later this year [...]
...unless you listened to Jobs' Macworld Keynote or read the flurry of articles that flew around afterwards -- such as this Macworld article [macworld.com] -- in which case you would know that the AppleTV is a glorified video iPod that can be synced with iTunes like any other iPod. (Sorry, that's not technically true; apparently the AppleTV can sync over a wireless network connection.)
It will be interesting to hear Apple's explanation for the hard drive.
Is he seriously unaware of the purpose of the hard drive? Can he honestly not find the AppleTV page where they discuss how the AppleTV syncs with iTunes [apple.com]?
Or is this simply the most egregious example of not letting the facts -- easily-obtained facts, no less -- get in the way of his "secret answer"? I know these Cringely pieces are often light on substance and heavy on BS, but this in unbelievable...
Two things.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Firstly, the networking hardware:
It has 802.11 (n!) wireless and 100BaseT ethernet. I think it's a bit tight not to have Gig-Ethernet, surely for the sake of pennies, and it appears that the wireless is only capable as a client. It's a shame that it doesn't seem like it can be used to create or extend a network, like the old Airport Express. I can see the business argument for making you buy another unit, however, I could be wrong about this.
Secondly, especially with the
A couple of things ... (Score:2)
No DRM and completely portable data. If it can't do that, it's no better than an ordinary PVR.
So wrong it's painful (Score:3)
The hard drive is there for one basic reason, syncing content with another computer that holds an iTunes library.
No mystery. No hidden agenda. The answer was in the Keynote and is on Apple's web site.
I guess he can't be bothered to do any kind of research.
This whole business of stacking components is pointless. An Airport goes near the cable/DSL modem or home router, not near the TV. And who exactly is telling him to put a Mac Mini near the TV set?
The Apple TV is a computer running OS X that is configured to playback content to a TV. It is not an iPhone or a stealth peer-to-peer device.
This is what I hate about pundits, their inability to discern a technophile wet dream from a well researched and logically consistent prediction based on trends and indicators.
Rabid Speculation (Score:2)
Re:Depends on the features (Score:5, Interesting)
I like my Tivo, and really love my MythTV box(es). My thoughts are...will be cool if they do this AND someone figures a way to adapt Myth so that it too can hook into this 'network' and be able to get content off it just like the AppleTV box.
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