iPhone, Apple TV Headline MacWorld Keynote 1619
Steve Jobs kept his audience rapt at the MacWorld keynote today. He rehashed the announcement of the iTV, now called Apple TV, and announced the iPhone, a revolutionary phone/ipod/wrist-computer that had MacWorld attendees sitting on the edge of their seats. Retailing for $499 (4 gig)/$599 (8 gig), it has to be seen to be believed. It uses a touch screen with a new form of input control, runs OSX and many standard applications, and connects to the internet via WiFi. It has a camera, functions as a movie player, a music player, and can send emails and photos in the middle of a phone call. From the Engadget coverage: "'[OSX] let us create desktop class applications and networking, not the crippled stuff you find on most phones, these are real desktop applications.' He's quoting Alan Kay - 'People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware.' 'So we're bringing breakthrough software to a mobile device for the first time.'" Seriously, go check this out. They're going to print money with this thing.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Leopard? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Leopard? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Leopard and June 1 (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Leopard and June 1 (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, I'm a bit skeptical of a full OS X install running on that thing. It would be pretty cool if you could get some type of desktop and actually write apps for the iPhone on the iPhone. I'm probably the only one in the world who would want a feature like that.
Also, for an 'all in one' type device, there is one thing it's missing. Games! I'm not sure what kind of games could work well on a touch screen outside of puzzle/card games, but hopefully there will be a few that run on there.
Re:Leopard and June 1 (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Leopard and June 1 (Score:4, Interesting)
Probably. But notice what wasn't said, always the thing to do at rah rah events like this. NOwhere did they even mention being able to install, run, use normal OS X applications on the thing. Considering what a coup it would be vs WinCE, if it could do it His Steveness would have crowed about it.
So will it be the typical mobile phone development deal, expensive development kit, massive legal hurdles in the NDA dept intended to make sure only select large development houses play and they play according to the mobile phone rules? Will the operating software in the thing be DRMed like the newest iPods so that only Apple signed binaries boot/run? Steve didn't say, and the silence is disturbing.
Re:Leopard and June 1 (Score:5, Funny)
No, it doesn't.
Doesn't play OGG, either.
Sucks to be a smelly linux hippie today.
"You've got to config it. And then you have to write some shell scripts. Update your RPMs. You have to partition your drives. And patch your kernel. Compile your binaries. Check your version dependencies. Probably do that once or twice.
It's just so easy. And so simple. I don't know why everyone doesn't run Linux."
You're wrong. (Score:5, Insightful)
Most distros offer their own patchsets against the main kernel tree, but you can run red hat's 2.6.19 kernel on suse, gentoo, etc etc as long as you build it to use whatever features the operating system requires (udev/devfs/etc) support.
Linux is not maintained as disjoint projects with a shared code base. One central repository (kernel.org) maintains the offical source, and specialists maintain the architecture-specific code.
Neither the arch-specific code nor the patchsets are forks. You probably consider them to be forks because you do not know what a fork is. A fork is when a group of developers copy the code from a project and develop it independently in another direction without any intention to merge back with the main trunk. Arch-specific code is not a fork because it exists as part of the main kernel trunk. Patchsets are not forks because they only exist to be applied against the main trunk. Good patchsets frequently get merged into the trunk anyways.
Re:You're wrong. (Score:5, Insightful)
Quoth wikipedia: "An operating system (OS) is a computer program that manages the hardware and software resources of a computer. At the foundation of all system software, the OS performs basic tasks such as controlling and allocating memory, prioritizing system requests, controlling input and output devices, facilitating networking, and managing files. It also may provide a graphical user interface for higher level functions."
Note the fact that GUIs are optional.
Ubuntu and Debian are just different package preferences and userland utilities running on the same OS, Linux. Ubuntu forked the installer, layout, and some of the organizational structure, but their kernels and userland utilties are built from the same damn source.
Your initial comment was this:
"You can be certain that the OS X that runs on the iPhone is a distant relative of the OS X that runs on the desktop. The two OS probably have as much as common as say, Windows XP and Windows Mobile. Think fork."
XP and Windows mobile do not share a kernel, nor do they share userland utilities, because windows was not designed with scalability in mind. A GNU/Linux system, however, because it was designed with scalability in mind, can be run just as easily on an ipod as a desktop computer. Obviously some userland packages are too bloated, but the OS itself does not fork.
My point was that your assertion that the os x that runs on the iphone must not be related to desktop os x is wrong. I've looked at the darwin sources, and the kernel could certainly be built for an embedded environment. They might need to introduce compile-time options into their userland utilities to allow them to build memory-efficient versions, and such, but there is *no reason why they would need to fork os x*. In fact, there's no reason why the iphone and desktop versions of os x couldn't build off of the same set of sources. My original point was that if they were smart enough to make their OS and applications scalable there's no reason why they'd need two codebases.
Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad (Score:5, Funny)
I'll wait for the next iteration.
Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad (Score:5, Insightful)
Random access voice mail almost certainly required that they get the cooperation of a specific provider.
The price is a bit high. I'd guessed $499 but without a contract. They could certainly obliverate their competition if they were able to get it cheaper, but this is to the Treo or Sidekick as Final Cut Pro was to Adobe Premiere when it was introduced. In other words, it blasts the competition into smithereens.
I wonder if terminal and ssh are included somewhere in the device. Those nice Blackberry folks charge $95 for ssh and that would make up a lot of the price disadvantage if it was included in the Phone's MacOS X installation.
Finally, when I heard all the stuff that goes on that device, I would think you'd want a 30gb version. 4 and 8 gb of Flash almost seems like an insult for something that powerful. I suppose a hard drive would have made it too big and heavy, but still, people carry around hard drive based iPods just fine, and a hard drive iPod's not much different in size from the sidekick.
It's a pity consumers really love small
D
Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad (Score:5, Informative)
There are 4 major wireless networks in the USA currently:
Cingular
Verizon Wireless (CDMA)
Sprint/Nextel
T-Mobile
Cingular and T-Mobile do share the same network technology (GSM/GPRS), which might be what you're thinking of.
Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad (Score:5, Insightful)
It's clearly an iPod second. After all, if you were to have a smartphone without mp3 playing capability, you'd look pretty silly.
"Never seen a presentation like this before" (Score:5, Funny)
Re:"Never seen a presentation like this before" (Score:5, Funny)
People were rapt.
And they were actually literally leaning forward on the edge of their seat.
But then this chick threw a hammer up on the stage and got escorted out by security.
Here's a video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=135041812
What you have really been waiting for. (Score:5, Funny)
I've been waiting for that all day.....
Re:What you have really been waiting for. (Score:5, Funny)
Alternate Name (Score:5, Funny)
Covet, covet (Score:5, Funny)
Great phone, shitty provider (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: Unlimited data price (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Great phone, shitty provider (Score:5, Informative)
WITH Contract (Score:5, Informative)
ARG thats insane. Probably $899 by itself if even available.
The name (Score:5, Interesting)
CNET confirms it (Score:5, Informative)
10:32--Cisco calls CNET News.com reporter with a statement about Apple's use of the term "iPhone" for its new product. "Given Apple's numerous requests for permission to use Cisco's iPhone trademark over the past several years and our extensive discussions with them recently, it is our belief that with their announcement today, Apple intends to agree to the final document and public statements that were distributed to them last night and that address a few remaining items we expect to receive a signed agreement today."
Re:The name (Score:4, Insightful)
Safe to assume they are bending poor Steve over a desk on this one.
Re:Apple would sue Cisco? Based on what? (Score:4, Insightful)
I suspect that the defense for that would be thus: Since Apple itself never announced an iPhone product, Cisco (and any other company in a similar situation) shouldn't be locked out of their trademark by consumer rumors. Unless I'm mistaken, you can't trademark words unless you actually do "trade" in a particular name.
Trading in a product does not guarantee you won't lose your trademark. Trademarks are tried in the court of public opinion. Bayer still sold Aspirin and Heroin under those names when they lost those trademarks. Kleenex is in danger of losing their trademark on the term, simply because people use it as a generic term for facial tissues, more than as a reference to their brand. So even if you have a product by that name, you can lose that trademark if the public does not understand that it is yours only, or if it confuses customers. Try opening a retail store called ElectronicsHack or Radio Hack, or ElectroShack, and you may well lose in court to RadioShack, who's pre-exisiting and popular brand is similar. "iPhone" is very similar to iMac and iPod and iTunes and many other Apple products. If you said "iPhone" to the average person last week before Apple had released their product and while Cisco was selling a product by that name, most people would have thought you were talking about something from Apple. As such, Cisco is likely to lose their trademark in any case and the courts could hand it over to Apple, who holds it in other countries. The legal system is confusing and complex and I would not say that that is the case, but I would not be surprised either. Likely, Apple and Cisco will come to a settlement.
Battery life? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Battery life? (Score:5, Informative)
Insane hardware -- a few thoughts/concerns (Score:5, Interesting)
A few small thoughts:
1.) No 3G. Wi-fi, Bluetooth, etc. are nice though.
2.) They push it as an internet device, with messaging/email/etc. but lack of a physical keyboard? I don't know. I mean, I know and you know we'll love it regardless, but will this really sway the Blackberry junkies?
3.) What is this thing really running? "OS X"? FreeBSD -- they mean that? I'd be curious also what the chips are (no way in hell is PortalPlayer powering graphics like this).
Very cool device. Should be impossible to find, but I'll get one anyway.
Not LAME! (Score:5, Funny)
(For those of you not in on the joke [slashdot.org])
Meanwhile, in Redmond (Score:5, Funny)
iPhone is disappointing (Score:4, Interesting)
Only interesting thing to wait for now is a release date for Leopard.
Re:iPhone is disappointing (Score:4, Interesting)
Name Change (Score:5, Informative)
An interesting time for Mac developers (Score:5, Insightful)
Likewise, there's a new incentive for Windows-only applications to get ported to OSX so they can run on the iPhone.
Personally, I think that the term "revolutionary" gets used way too much. But in the case of the iPhone, it seems appropriate.
-ch
Just one more thing... it's an ebook reader. (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if we get a simple text file display app, the ebook is finally here.
Beatles (Score:5, Interesting)
Impact to GPS device market? Automotive use? (Score:4, Insightful)
Assuming WiFi connectivity becomes widespread, I can see Google Maps printing money with this thing too. (If there's no WiFi available, but a cellular tower is within range, Cingular might be able to print money for the data shuffled back and forth while running an application like Google Maps.)
Biggest loser might be GPS device makers: Why spend $500 for a portable GPS unit when you can have the same thing (and get the "killer app" of Google-searchable maps, plus the nice bonus of satellite imagery, which can't be done on a portable GPS unit) in your phone for the same price?
I can also see a nice automotive aftermarket opportunity here. One of these things mounted on the dash, or in an aftermarket console/tray, would be an ergonomic (read: safer) way to do aftermarket GPS.
Compare and contrast (Score:5, Funny)
Jan 9, 2007: "Seriously, go check this out. They're going to print money with this thing." [slashdot.org]
Re:Compare and contrast (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Compare and contrast (Score:4, Interesting)
What amazes me about this is that the iPod was introduced after September 11th. It is so ubiquitous now, so ingrained into our media and culture, that I had completely forgotten it is, comparatively, such a recent product.
I think that's really a testament to how good Apple marketing and design departments are.
Tech specs available at apple.com (Score:5, Informative)
If Slashdot hates it...... (Score:5, Insightful)
Bigger implications (Score:4, Informative)
If you can buy it without the Cingular/AT&T service from Apple, then it might be worth the cost, since the WiFi/Bluetooth is cool enough and I already have Verizon (along with the entire fam).
5hrs life, tho... gonna be tough if you use it as a cell phone.
Re:Bigger implications (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Bigger implications (Score:4, Informative)
"Cingular Wireless, LLC, headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia, is an AT&T subsidiary." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cingular [wikipedia.org]) So ATT is the biggest GSM operator. Thanks for playing.
There are other GSM providers as well: "Edge Wireless LLC is a Mobile phone provider founded in 1999, serving southern Oregon, northern California, southeastern Idaho and Jackson, Wyoming. The company is headquartered in Bend, Oregon, although they provide no coverage or services in that city." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_Wireless [wikipedia.org]) Edge is my provider. They're putting up towers pretty quickly on my coast and they have quite a bit of capacity in the listed markets - that still makes them a niche player of course, I just want to mention them. Since many of the GSM providers in the US (if not all of them) cooperate, it's unimportant which of them are large players. For the purposes of deciding what is useful, only the total mass must be considered.
Alltel themselves provides significant GSM capacity, and the size of their network is defined by coverage, not their number of customers: "When Alltel acquired Western Wireless in 2005, it also gained a large GSM footprint as well. While it does not offer GSM service to its own customers, Alltel has indicated that it will continue to maintain the GSM footprint (and perhaps even expand it) to provide roaming service to GSM users of other wireless carriers. Alltel advertises itself as "owner and operator of the nation's largest wireless network"; this claim refers to geographical coverage of its network rather than number of Alltel customers or population covered." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alltel [wikipedia.org])
Meanwhile, while CDMA may be the leader in North America, it is overwhelmingly NOT the leader in the world, and I doubt Apple plans to sell their phone only in the US. According to this press release [prnewswire.com] (linked from "GSM" on wikipedia) "Globally, there are 2.29 billion cellular users encompassing all technologies" and the press release itself is about the number of GSM users worldwide being expected to cross two billion that month - that month being June of 2006.
Thus, if the choice is between technologies, then GSM is the only logical choice; probably a large part of the decision was based on who was willing to partner with Apple and with what terms.
Finally, according to this article on BetaNews [betanews.com] on August 31, 2006, "As of the end of the second quarter of 2006, GSM had added 100 million new customers over the past year to end the period with a 51 percent share." But it seems to be an error; GSM is simply the most common communications technology in The Americas. HOWEVER, if we look at a graph entitled "Market Share Comparison in the United States (Sept 2005 - Sept 2006)" (http://www.3gamericas.org/English/Statistics/11.c fm [3gamericas.org]) we can see that in that timeframe TDMA became barely significant, GSM gained 4.3% of the market, and CDMA lost 0.9%.
Meanwhile, while CDMA does offer some advantages (notably higher rates of data transmission) GSM is coming along in that regard as well.
In other words, CDMA is falling, GSM is rising, and GSM is the uncontested ruler of cell service everywhere but North America. I'm not sure it's worth their while to make a CDMA phone - I think people will be more loath to purchase a $600 phone that only works with one provider (since most CDMA providers give you a really hard time about
Exclusive with Cingular, probably necessary (Score:5, Insightful)
Much as I detest Cingular, Apple likely had little choice but to partner with one of the major cell phone carriers. Apple could, of course, had sold the iPhone without a SIM and had the customers install their own.
That would have been a marketing / tech support / and logistical mess, with different networks providing different data plans, features, connectivity, and even basic networks (GSM versus whatever the hell's out there). Partnering with Cingular makes life ever so much easier for Apple. Not only that, it prevents Cingular / ATT from partnering with some vaporware future Microsoft product that could steal Apple's thunder.
I'm not going to defend Cingular's horrific record. They're awful, no doubt. But all the wireless firms are awful right now. Given that Steve divested Apple of the awesome Imaging group, the nifty Newton, and other business units it would be surprising if Apple wanted to get into the cell phone provisioning business.
On another note, I'm already looking at how to rewrite a few Widgets to work on the iPhone...
Some reality (Score:4, Insightful)
2) I've seen NO confirmation that you HAVE to buy a contract.
3) Anti Apple Trolls will take a large steaming dump on it no matter what it is.
iPod needs to get this software (Score:4, Insightful)
The official fanboy thread (Score:4, Insightful)
In this thread I want to give you the opportunity to state whether your earlier trolling against cellphones with mp3 playback functionality was 100%-Apple-fanboyism or if you stand by it and think the iPhone should never have happened. Thx.
Technical Specs (Score:5, Informative)
Screen size 3.5 inches
Screen resolution 320 by 480 at 160 ppi
Input method Multi-touch
Operating system OS X
Storage 4GB or 8GB
GSM Quad-band (MHz: 850, 900, 1800, 1900)
Wireless data Wi-Fi (802.11b/g) + EDGE + Bluetooth 2.0
Camera 2.0 megapixels
Battery * Up to 5 hours Talk / Video / Browsing
* Up to 16 hours Audio playback
Dimensions 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.46 inches / 115 x 61 x 11.6mm
Weight 4.8 ounces / 135 grams
No Widescreen iPod (Score:4, Insightful)
The iPhone looks nice. Overpriced and tied to a terrible service provider, but the gadget itself looks cool.
But where's the next-generation iPod? It's obvious that the technology is there; the iPhone has pretty much every feature that one could dream of in a next-generation iPod: it's widescreen, touch-controlled, and has much better screen resolution.
What about the vast majority of iPod customers who don't want an overfeatured, overpriced toy ($600 plus a two-year contract with the worst mobile service provider in the US--and they have a monopoly on it, by the way) with little storage capacity that won't be available until June? What about those of us who aren't interested in satellite images of the Washington Monument, or a simple way to voice-dial Starbucks, and just want a sexy gadget to play movies on the train? Why does Apple insist on shoving these extra features down our throats at an exorbitant price, offering no alternative? I thought they had more respect for their customers than that.
Re:No Widescreen iPod (Score:5, Insightful)
The iPhone looks nice. Overpriced and tied to a terrible service provider, but the gadget itself looks cool.
But where's the next-generation iPod? [...] Why does Apple insist on shoving these extra features down our throats at an exorbitant price, offering no alternative?
How many freakkin versions of the iPod does it take for you to consider that you have been offered an alternative? Because iPod, iPod Video, Mini iPod, iPod Shuffle weren't enough, no, you're stuck with only one single choice, which you are forced at gunpoint to buy, no less.
Poor, poor you. How dare Apple design a slick product that will appeal to millions rather than spend their resources designing the product you want, at the price you deem fair? how dare they?
Oooh My... (Score:5, Interesting)
If the phone can run SIP software (And it looks like it's just OSX so it should be able to) then you could switch over to a "One handset to rule them all" setup. At home or anywhere else where there's wifi you can connect to an Asterisk server over sip. Otherwise default to cell. The problem then becomes how to terminate your Asterisk box into the PSTN. You could get a VOIP provider (Telasip works with asterisk and you can ask them to unlock your account so that you can change your caller ID.) Or you could terminate it into the PSTN with a digium card or a SIP gateway. In either case you can provide one phone number to your customers and have asterisk fail over to the cell if your main line doesn't pick up. If you use telasip for such endeavors you can spoof your customer's caller ID to the cell network so you even know who's calling.
Once you take control of your network endpoint in this manner the sky is pretty much the limit. Blacklist phone numbers, let your callers play hunt-the-wumpas, have a corporate-class voice responder, make free calls over enum or Dundi... pretty much anything you can think of can be done when you have that much control of your end of the phone network.
Apple Releases iPhone (Score:4, Funny)
PLEASE sell one without a camera! (Score:4, Insightful)
Price and Network Locking (Score:5, Interesting)
Why? Well, first of all there's the issue of locking. OK, so I use Cingular... but I'll be damned if I'm going to sign another contract with them to get this phone for $599. That's not because I'm balking at the price... I don't like to be locked to a provider. The last 4 cellphones I've purchased were all unlocked GSM phones. I pay more for them, but I get to use them wherever and whenever I want. That way when I fly to England (which I'll be doing again this year) I can pick up a Virgin Mobile SIM at the airport (or more often in London... they're cheaper there) and just pay as I go with a UK phone number for the duration of my trip. Plus then I have my regular contacts, calendar and stuff with me (not to mention my eBooks).
I'm no on a contract with Cingular, but I stick with them today because they provide me decent coverage, decent service and don't really seem to care what kind of phone I attach to their network.
Now, to those who ARE balking at the price with a 2-year contract... well this is a smartphone. As such, compare it to smartphones, not to the standard handsets. Even devices such as the SLVR don't compare despite their limited music-playing capability because the Apple phone is going to be a smartphone in the same way that the current PDA phones are. It just runs OSX instead of Windows CE or Palm. The price is about in-the-range that you'd expect to pay. For an unlocked phone, expect around $200-$250 more.
Now will I pay $850 for the phone I want? Probably. I paid about $500 for my MPX220 and I've had it for two years so far. 3 years out of that investment I think is reasonable... given inflation over the last couple of years I think I can justify $850 for my next three-year investment in a decent cellphone. The fact that it'll replace my MPX220 and iPod Nano at the same time, as well as give me an OSX based system is just the icing on the cake for me.
My guess on CmdrTaco's opinion... (Score:5, Funny)
Someone freeze me (Score:5, Funny)
ssh, x-windows (Score:5, Interesting)
An obvious home run. Crackberrys are history. Every admin is going to be leashed to one of these things.
OpenMoko (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html/ [openmoko.com]
CES? (Score:4, Funny)
"And in other news, flights from Las Vegas to San Francisco immediately sold out today..."
Computers? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm sure the iPhone is going to be a lovely product for phone users; me, I'm not too hot on cellphones (or any kind of phone, for that matter. I never did like being interrupted.) I do have an iPod, but I don't use the Apple store (because I prefer not to buy DRM'd materials. I just buy CDs and put tracks into the iPod from there.) So my main connection with Apple is their computers.
I noticed that (aside from the fact that the iPhone runs OSX) there really weren't any "computer" announcements today. Intel announced quad-core CPUs yesterday, and the rumor mill was mumbling about a dual-chip (hence 8-core) Mac desktop; likewise, the mini could use some attention in the graphics area, and the macbook pro still needs (and still has room for) a full keyboard and numeric pad, not to mention a second button on the trackpad.
The iTV / Apple TV... well, aside from the fact that you won't be able to get one for a little while yet, I'm not sure what it'd do for me that I can't already do. Apparently, the marketing went right over my head. Anyone have a summary of why this is an interesting product in a world of tivos, dvrs, frontrow, hi-def dvd and xbox and ps3 and so on? Aside from giving Apple a vector to sell DRM'd movies?
While I'm sure expanding into phones will be a great moneymaker for Apple, I can't help feeling disappointed. Just my .02
Re:Computers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Computers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple "computer" introductions are now a separate matter. Think about it. In the past, when Apple was (basically) the sole PPC user, they were responsible for everything - of all the PC vendors (HP, Dell et al) they were the only ones designing their own system chipset. Then, it was actually meaningful to introduce such things at major events because there was no visibility otherwise. Now - it's up to Intel, and Intel is generally responsible for and publishes the underlying technology roadmap.
You want to know Apple's "computer" roadmap? Look at Intel's published roadmap. When Intel introduced the Core Duo, you knew more or less Apple was going to introduce Core Duo machines soon after. Same for Core 2 Duo. When Santa Rosa shows up in April, you also know new MB(P)s based on that will show up.
CPU "refreshes" simply aren't important enough to warrant a keynote introduction any more - the intel imac introductions etc were different and important and warranted a macworld keynote introduction because those were the *first* intel macs. all future macs, unless they introduce something new and interesting (or if apple's product lineup has seriously run dry) are unlikely to warrant any further keynote introductions. There's absolutely nothing to stop the Apple.com home page being updated in the future with a "quiet" introduction of octo-core Mac Pros.
But right now - and I think you're seriously underestimating the significance of the iPhone introduction on the players of the phone industry - the iPhone is *it*. It really is what is worth talking about right now.
No matter what their production output is I do not believe the apple stores will be able to keep it in stock. They've staked out the high ground in terms of phone functionality, and all the other players are now left with having to basically compete on price, and higher-cost western producers - that means Motorola and Nokia et al - are NOT going to be able to compete in that space, squeezed between Apple on the top and the upcoming Chinese manufacturers at the bottom. This is a serious disaster for Nokia which has been trying for ages to become a "new computing platform" (didn't they ban their employees from calling their devices "phones"?).
the "fundamental unifying characteristic" of all phones so far has been the keypad, and Apple just decided they weren't going to play there. Considering the careful patent protection apple must have put in place, any alternative implementation of a non-keypad interface must end up being klunky as hell, and there's going to be simply no way for anybody else (and this is going to include Microsoft) to compete (bar some amazing genius in their staff who comes up with a new UI idea completely out of left field
Everybody kept saying "well MS never gets anything right until version 3.0 anyways" when they were comparing the Zune with the iPod. Well, Zune 3.0 can be the perfect MP3 player, but it won't matter, because this is the end of the "plain MP3 player" market dominance. sure they'll still continue to be sold, but the analysts who were talking about iPod sales levelling off or plunging in 2007 were, in fact, correct - but not because it's being taken over by external competition. I've dealt with windows mobile phones. they do not compare in any way with the UI of the iPhone.
The only problem with the iPhone I can think of is basically personal safety. Think of the mugging potential.
Touchscreen Keypads Suck! (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no tactile feel. I can dial a $20 cell phone without having to see or hear it. I've used touchscreen keypads on existing phones already and you have to look when you dial.
And you make it sounds like Apple invented the keypad-less phone. Did you happen to miss the dozen phones that have been out for years now that lack a dial pad?
MD5 Hash...... (Score:5, Funny)
Ah, the mysteries and miracles of one-way hashing.
Re:Computers? (Score:5, Insightful)
I was wondering the same thing. In fact, I had the same reaction to the iTV that I had to Widgets when they were first announced: this is nice enough, but it seems more like an upgrade to an existing apple product than like a revolutionary new thing.
Then I thought a bit more about the Widget analogy. With hindsight, I can now see the real purpose of Widgets. They're certainly useful on their own, but the long-term purpose of introducing them was to get lots of developers writing useful little stripped down programs--which will now be available on the iPhone. Widgets were what you might call a wedge technology. And Dashborad was just the thin end of that wedge.
So I have to assume that's what iTV is. I'm willing to bet that somewhere in Steve Job's desk is a timeline showing when they'll introduce TiVo like functionality to the AppleTV. (or, for that matter, merge the AppleTV and the iPod into an Archos-like device.) By the time that happens, they'll have had a few generations of experience to work out the basic bugs with the product, and perhaps to develop an ecosystem of third-party software and hardware designed around iTV.
Also out: Airport Extreme 802.11n (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Also out: Airport Extreme 802.11n (Score:5, Informative)
Enjoy.
Re:Also out: Airport Extreme 802.11n (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Wide Screen (Score:5, Informative)
Contracts (Score:5, Interesting)
The rest of us won't or cant' switch (cingular is not so good in rural areas). So cingular for a few years then they let in the other players, the price drops and we unwashed get ours after all the bugs are worked out.
Some other thoughts
1) The use of WiFi and the ability to have ringtones and pictures that don't cost you 2 bucks a pop from the phone company is a daring move for Cingular. WiFi means that these can be Skype phones too. So Cingular has a window of opportunity before WiFi and wimax becom ubquitous to get these folks as loyal customers while they develope some sort of way to make people pay for wifi voip.
2) Second, this is actually great news for microsoft, palm, and everyone except balckberry. Since the iphone is cingular only there's going to be huge demand for this level of phonage tech for all the other phone services. They have to get these from some body. With apple having signed an exclusive deal with cingular the other 99% of the market will be crying out. The next generation Zune will likely look a lot like this plus it will propbably have a built in Wii controller for xbox
3) And speaking of Wii, The apple phone has built in blue tooth and accelerometers, plus all sorts of gripping hand input modes. I wonder if it can do absolute positioning in space--maybe with that camera on the back. if so then this woul dbe an awesome game controller. rig this the the iTV (not the wii) and apple is set. Now the price looks even cheaper since you already have the home computer--if it can do the wiii thing too well bite me. Of course you'll need a couple input devices..
Re:Contracts (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Contracts (Score:5, Informative)
My roommate's general comment: "it's really great, but one of the most difficult things to do with this phone is actually use it as one."
Re:Contracts (Score:5, Informative)
Proximity sensors so it turns off the touchscreen when it's close to your ear! I can not tell you how much of a problem that is on the 6800.
Wii controller? What are you talking about? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure the phone has sensors (lots of devices do), but I'm sure it will never, ever be intended for them to be used in the way you described. Maybe there will be some kind of hack project to make the iPhone usable as a very basic interface for something, but the basic sensors it has are limited, I'm sure to being useful for their intended design purposes. The Wiimote was designed over a period of years to be used as a controller for the Wii. It's functionality won't be duplicated by a hacked iPhone. And I don't think Microsoft wants to make a controller/phone/Zune that costs as much as its competitors more expensive games console, to attract people to the XBox360. The last thing you want to do is throw your $500 controller for the $400 console at your $2000 plasma. Not to mention the fact that the Wii controller concept works because the Wii was designed around it. Unless Microsoft wants to build a Wii-style console, Wii-style controllers will never sell for it. Look up "Power Glove" and "U-Force" on wikipedia.
Re:Contracts (Score:5, Insightful)
For instance, why is the battery time just 5-16 hours? You mean, you have to keep the thing charged most of the time? Might as well be a laptop, then (and at these prices it pretty much is).
It also seems a little bulky for a phone. It's essentially designed for women with handbags. It's not likely to fit into my pocket without fear it'll break.
My guess is that early adopters will get it and use it, but for the general masses, this won't be something they get for another 6 years, unlike the iPod.
Re:I DONT want a GSM + Edge phone... (Score:4, Informative)
I thought so too, but then I realized that the iPhone runs Mac OS X, and perhaps the AppleTV thingy also does. I consider that a positive sign.
Imagine the possibilities (Score:5, Interesting)
I can see the slashdot/mac crowd is already coming up with creative ideas. Using this as a game system is a little far out. I mean come on using this as a wii type controller sounds cool until it takes a little flight out of your oily hands. However I think the real potential is in the car.
Many cars already have iPod integration now imagine if they had iphone integration. All you do is plug the iPhone presumably through the same type of connector as the ipod. It will automatically work as the iPod does but also now will plug into the handsfree system of your car. That would be really sweet.
The icing on the cake would be if there was a OSX interface for your car central dashboard. There are already many people with touch screen devices. Now the iPhone becomes the enabling point for the whole car experience. With a navigation widget and your own custom built widgets you can automatically get a nav system and any thing else the creative Mac Widget community comes up with.
This would be a neat idea and something I would definitely like to see.
Now if only it could do something to improve people's driving. Especially in the New York area. Now that would be a real revolution Steve.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Price to high (Score:5, Insightful)
And those prices will be exactly the same in June because you can see the future.
Seriously - they'll be able to sell data in volume now. Price will drop or be bundled with voice.
This device makes data compelling for everyone else - not just Johnny Businessman. It is what the phone companies built the data networks for in the first place.
Re:Price to high (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Price to high (Score:5, Informative)
When you see Cingular's coverage, in the USA, its clear why Apple went with them:
GSM 1900 [gsmworld.com], GSM 850 [gsmworld.com], 3G 850/1900 [gsmworld.com]
Re:Price to high (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Price to high (Score:4, Insightful)
I can understand where they'd want to introduce the full blown phone first as they appear to be going to the FCC for approval right now. So now they can go ahead and build an iPod with the same components and release that in June too.
PS3 is a toy. iPhone is a tool. (Score:4, Interesting)
Nokia 800 (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Ownd (Score:5, Funny)
Thanks for taking so long with the 620. And for dragging your feet with the 603 . Oh - and the higher frequency G4s? Thanks for taking so long with that.
Hope your margins are more than RAZR thin!
Signed,
Apple, Inc.
Re:Ownd (Score:5, Funny)
Thanks for taking so long with the 620. And for dragging your feet with the 603 . Oh - and the higher frequency G4s? Thanks for taking so long with that.
Hope your margins are more than RAZR thin!
Signed,
Apple, Inc.
Re:Say what? (Score:5, Funny)
You got a Zune for Christmas, didn't you? (Score:5, Funny)
Be careful talking about price (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember that Apple's been making buckets of money, for years, by selling things that either were or were perceived to be more expensive than the competition.
Re:Say what? (Score:5, Insightful)
*fit in the palm of your hand
*have a touchscreen
*have an OS redesigned around the touchscreen
*have a display
*make and receive phone calls
*deliver email the very second it arrives on the server
But package a computer -- a full blown one running Mac OS X -- into a tiny, shiny device, and people complain about a $600 pricetag.
Why?
Because the computer is SMALL.
Guess what? If anything, you should pay extra for that.
Just because your brain stem equates it with a Snickers bar, LG cell phone, TV remote control or Palm PDA due to its size does not mean its value is anywhere near as low.
Re:Say what? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's only slightly higher than existing smartphones that have fewer features.
and with "only" 4 or 8 gigs of storage, it's roughly useless for the people who WOULD use it.
How do you figure? Most smartphones include less than 1GB of storage, and are at best expandable (at added expense) to about 2GB. The Treo 750, at $399+2 year Cingular contract only includes 128MB.
Re:Intel CPU on Apple TV = cheap Linux/ mythtv box (Score:5, Insightful)
Well... (Score:5, Funny)
That gives you some time to save up for it, rather than put it on your iCreditCard