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Mac OS X May Go Embedded?

Posted by Zonk on Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:34 AM
from the stranger-things-have-happened dept.
VE3OGG writes "Apple Insider is reporting that Apple may very well be developing an embedded version of OSX. The report details what they believe will be the next step in Apple's future, which is extending its consumer electronics division. The first child of such a marriage between OSX and consumer electronic may be the oft-rumoured, not-yet-materialized iPhone — which it also asserts may well be released next fiscal quarter. It seems to be their opinion that with both the desktop and the phone running operating systems with similar underpinnings, 'expansive opportunities' would emerge."
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  • iPhone? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by catbutt (469582) on Saturday December 23 2006, @12:41AM (#17346266)
    Are we still calling it now that Lynksys/Cisco has a product called that?
    • Re:iPhone? by daviddennis (Score:3) Saturday December 23 2006, @01:15AM
      • Re:iPhone? by sethstorm (Score:1) Saturday December 23 2006, @05:05AM
        • Re:iPhone? by adzoox (Score:2) Saturday December 23 2006, @08:57AM
          • Re:iPhone? by daviddennis (Score:3) Saturday December 23 2006, @09:15AM
            • Re:iPhone? by Redlazer (Score:1) Saturday December 23 2006, @12:28PM
              • Re:iPhone? by adzoox (Score:2) Saturday December 23 2006, @12:42PM
        • Re:iPhone? by daviddennis (Score:2) Saturday December 23 2006, @09:09AM
    • not any more (Score:5, Informative)

      by artifex2004 (766107) on Saturday December 23 2006, @01:26AM (#17346450)
      (Last Journal: Monday January 02 2006, @01:32PM)
      Are we still calling it now that Lynksys/Cisco has a product called that?


      The term I have seen lately is "iChat Mobile."
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:iPhone? by Duncan3 (Score:3) Saturday December 23 2006, @01:31AM
    • Re:iPhone? by MacDork (Score:3) Saturday December 23 2006, @01:46AM
    • Re:iPhone? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 23 2006, @02:55AM (#17346834)
      They should call it the Personal Information Exchananger.

      Apple PIE
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:iPhone? by hey! (Score:2) Saturday December 23 2006, @01:34PM
        • Re:iPhone? by RodgerTheGreat (Score:1) Saturday December 23 2006, @04:04PM
          • Re:iPhone? by Magic5Ball (Score:1) Saturday December 23 2006, @09:09PM
      • Re:iPhone? by macmastery (Score:2) Saturday December 23 2006, @05:08PM
    • Re:iPhone? by Lars T. (Score:3) Saturday December 23 2006, @03:05AM
    • Re:iPhone? by frdmfghtr (Score:2) Saturday December 23 2006, @06:17AM
      • Re:iPhone? by gordgekko (Score:2) Saturday December 23 2006, @06:19PM
    • Re:iPhone? by sokoban (Score:2) Saturday December 23 2006, @12:28PM
    • Re:iPhone? by ripragged (Score:1) Tuesday December 26 2006, @03:48PM
  • Would it kill story submitter to actually read the article before creaming his jeans over the rumoured iPhone?

    Wouldn't the first use of an embedded OSX be the already announced iTV [wikipedia.org]? Even TFA only rates the (rumoured) iPhone as one of the first, not the first. And the (rumoured) iPhone isn't mentioned in relation to the "expansive [interactive] opportunities".

    Poor summaries distort a Slashdot story yet again...
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 23 2006, @12:44AM (#17346282)
    "Apple Insider is reporting that Apple may very well be developing an embedded version of OSX"

    1-Faster booting.

    2-More immune from viruses.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • How novel (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 23 2006, @12:52AM (#17346314)
    So Apple is looking to extend the reach of its operating system, perhaps scaling it down a little so it can run on smaller consumer electronics like phones? Maybe it could figure out a way to incorporate as many features of the OS in the embedded system as possible, like giving it the power of being able to run various bits of software, making it compatible with various legacy packages in the regular OS. Heck, they could slap a nice color LCD screen on it and give it the ability to do almost everything, from viewing websites to playing MP3s.

    How progressive. It's a good think their competitors over in Redmond haven't thought of that, because if . . . oh wait. Never mind.
    • Re:How novel by f0dder (Score:1) Saturday December 23 2006, @02:10AM
      • Re:How novel by rolfwind (Score:2) Saturday December 23 2006, @03:13AM
        • Re:How novel by calciphus (Score:2) Saturday December 23 2006, @04:30AM
  • Not bloody likely (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ebichete (223210) on Saturday December 23 2006, @12:54AM (#17346326)
    Operating system that consists of BSD layered on top of a microkernel, whose only compelling feature is its rather excellent UI, wants to compete in embedded space.

    This is the same embedded market where constrained resources make extra layering in the kernel a no-no and the aforementioned UI is irrelevant.

    If this is true, colour me stupefied.
    • This is the same embedded market where constrained resources make extra layering in the kernel a no-no and the aforementioned UI is irrelevant.

      Indeed, but reading the article rather than the summary:

      developing an operating system based on the core technologies of Mac OS X for use with embedded devices.


      It could just be a pared down Aqua running on a different kernel (Linux, qnx, symbian, WinCE?).

      Heck, a line that vague, could be describing just about anything.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Not bloody likely by daviddennis (Score:2) Saturday December 23 2006, @01:12AM
    • Re:Not bloody likely (Score:5, Informative)

      by mclaincausey (777353) on Saturday December 23 2006, @01:35AM (#17346478)
      (http://mclaincausey.com/)
      *snip* This is the same embedded market where constrained resources make extra layering in the kernel a no-no *snip*
      Microkernels are already in use as RTOSes on embedded devices. See QNX (a rather popular example) and Phoenix-RTOS for starters.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Not bloody likely (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Bottlemaster (449635) on Saturday December 23 2006, @01:48AM (#17346534)
      Operating system that consists of BSD layered on top of a microkernel, whose only compelling feature is its rather excellent UI, wants to compete in embedded space.

      This is the same embedded market where constrained resources make extra layering in the kernel a no-no and the aforementioned UI is irrelevant.

      If this is true, colour me stupefied.
      What makes you think that Unix or microkernels aren't scalable? QNX is pretty much both, and it takes the microkernel design much further than OS X.

      Even if the UI was OS X's only strength, that's the most important feature they can bring to the embedded market. With today's fast, low-power embedded processors, anybody can write software that is functional and reasonably responsive. The UI for anything with a full-size keyboard was mastered 50 years ago, but UI is where embedded devices often fail. Apple apparently has some skill at it, because from what I've heard, the iPod's UI is what sets it apart from similar devices (that and being white and shiny I guess).
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Not bloody likely (Score:5, Insightful)

        by ebichete (223210) on Saturday December 23 2006, @02:35AM (#17346738)
        First a few generalizations. QNX scales well, especially from desktop class machines downwards. The monolithic Unixes scale well, especially from from 386 class machines upwards. Linux uses some rather interesting techniques to scale better than conventional Unix does in the downward direction.

        Now, OS X has both a microkernel and a monolithic kernel. It implements most operating system services in the monolithic layer. This means it loses the primary benefits posited by a microkernel design while possibly incurring the "defects" of both approaches. It is not a microkernel design, it is an operating system that has a microkernel. The guys at NeXT were not interested in the lower layers of their operating system, they were focused almost entirely on the user space (and especially GUI) experience, and they nailed a good part of what they set out to do.

        The GUI of OS X is very well done for a desktop GUI but it is not directly transferable to the embedded market. What is transferable, however, is the UI design skills that Apple has. That is why the iPod is such a great device, not because of OS X.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Not bloody likely (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Bottlemaster (449635) on Saturday December 23 2006, @02:52AM (#17346810)
          What I meant to say, but better said.

          Microsoft didn't just port 95/XP to ARM and call it Windows CE/Mobile; nor will Apple do this with OS X. If they do enter the embedded arena, they'll (hopefully, for them) create an OS that not only satisfies the additional efficiency requirements of the embedded world but also follows the same user-oriented design principles as OS X.
          [ Parent ]
    • Re:Not bloody likely by General Lee's Peking (Score:3) Saturday December 23 2006, @02:25AM
    • Re:Not bloody likely by interstellar_donkey (Score:2) Saturday December 23 2006, @04:12AM
    • I/O Kit by maggard (Score:3) Saturday December 23 2006, @11:32AM
    • Re:Not bloody likely by hattig (Score:1) Saturday December 23 2006, @03:01PM
    • Re:Not bloody likely by jrldh2 (Score:1) Sunday December 24 2006, @09:15AM
  • Fudd article .... (Score:1)

    by nxtr (813179) on Saturday December 23 2006, @12:59AM (#17346340)
    Didn't RTFA but Macosrumors.com reports the embedded version of Mac OS on the iPod phone/iChat Mobile/Apple Phone to be a significantly expanded version of the iPod firmware.
  • I think they want to be agile (Score:5, Insightful)

    by astrashe (7452) on Saturday December 23 2006, @01:03AM (#17346362)
    (Last Journal: Friday March 26 2004, @04:22PM)
    (This is pure hot air, and not informed by much actual knowledge. Hah! I beat you to saying it!)

    For a long time before they switched, we kept hearing about x86 versions of OS X.

    The impression I have is that they developed that version of the OS so that they'd always have the option to switch if they had to, not because they knew they were definitely going to switch when they started work on the x86 version.

    It makes sense for them to to an embedded version, just in case. If they ever decide they want to jump, they'll be in the position of polishing something they already have, rather than starting from scratch.

    And if they want to play with prototypes of things like iPhones, they'll have a really clear understanding of what it is they'd be bringing to market. They can build them, and play with them, and figure out if they'll suck or not, look at them realistically in comparison to what other people are selling, etc. Then if all of the planets are lined up, they can ramp up for a real product.

    Imagine that MS had kept a few guys building audio players for all the years the iPod has been out, and that they had built a few generations of prototypes in the lab, and leaned on them for a few years. When people at the top of the company decided it was strategically important for them to be in that space, they'd have been able to jump in in a different way than they did.

    MS decides that they have to be in music players, then they star a massive effort to get there. The decision is made before anyone really knows how what they'll ultimately produce will stack up against the iPod. If they had a few guys making music players for years, they'd have a much better idea of how their product would stack up before the decided to jump in.

    So I'd be inclined to interpret this as a sign that Apple wants to stay within striking distance of the embedded market, not that they're definitely going in. Apple's not going to make a crummy iPhone. If they do it, they'll want it to be the best phone ever. They're not going to trash their brand just because people keep telling them that they have to be in phones.

  • Want it to just work! (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 23 2006, @01:33AM (#17346472)
    I just want a portable music player that is simple and easy to use. No one wants all the bells and whistles that the "others" have.

    I just want a simple and easy to use cell phone, an all in one techno gadget is not desired and a dumb idea.

    Oh damn.. I was away for a while. The collective opinion has changed, now I should want all of these features and functionality again.

    What scenario reflects reality?
    1) Apple releases a new feature that no one claimed to have wanted before and suddenly, everyone wants it now and it is a welcomed addition
    2) People are asking for and suggesting product enhancements to Apple and they are listening and responding to the feedback?

    Mod me down or ignore my comments, either way, from what I read on /., I see almost no sign of number 2 happening around here. Maybe number 2 is the case and the /. crowd is different from the rest of the worlds Apples users.
  • by presearch (214913) * on Saturday December 23 2006, @01:53AM (#17346564)
    It would be great if OS(x) allowed running any dashboard applet and if Dashcode was a nice easy dev kit for this new series of devices.
  • by Animats (122034) on Saturday December 23 2006, @02:12AM (#17346648)
    (http://www.animats.com)

    Well, first, the "iPhone" name belongs to Linksys, and they already have one out.

    The second problem is that the handset industry is a slave to the carriers, at least in the US. Apple would have to do some major sucking up to Sprint, Verizon, etc. Worse, from Apple's perspective, is that handset margins are lousy. The carriers make all the money.

  • Apple cleans house... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Brat Food (9397) on Saturday December 23 2006, @02:22AM (#17346688)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    Just a little history on osx:

    OSX started out long ago as open step (as far as being for intel). Open step became rhapsody beta, which ran on intel (i have some cds around somewhere still =). I could go on, but the point is that I'd bet, and it's been said, that osx was kept at mostly build parity with the commercially released PPC versions. I think the main thing holding back the intel version was an enabling technology like rosetta. Of course, it had been rumored for years that OSX was/is also compiled for Sparc and some other targets.

    Now, this is important because an os kept this relativly flexible would seem to have a monumentally esier time being targeted at different architectures (linux has this benefit as well). And leveraging APIs and frameworks for things like phones, video players, palmtop devices, media centers, could produce the most user friendly and functionaly devices seen yet.

    This brings me to why the apple phone will clean up, if even done remotely right. Cell phones suck. The UI's get worse and worse. Cell companies charge in retarded fashions for stuff in the US (ring tones? backgrounds?). Cell phone layouts keep getting worse (am I the only one who thinks the keypad on the new slim line of moto phones is atrocious?). Cell phone companies dont compete in the US (at least on price... has your cell phone bill ever really gone down, even with the current ubiquity?). Oh yeah, #1 thing - a competant music player/photo/video viewer without all the restrictions a verizon would place on it.

    And if apple is able to go te way of european phones, sellong unlocked phones useable worldwide with sim chips (and even possibly paid for with the latter in the US), all in all, apple should clean up and maybe, just maybe, force cell companies to make somereally good products. Kinda sucks that apple would be at least somewhat tied to current infrastructure, as it is said to be buying network usage from cingular.

    Oh well, I'll been holding off my cell upgrade till macworld.
  • by Thunderbear (4257) on Saturday December 23 2006, @02:57AM (#17346842)
    (http://unixsnedkeren.dk/ravn)
    A while back I ran nmap against my Airport Express and it reported it to run OS X. It is most likely the embedded version of Darwin which they talk about here, then.

  • by shess (31691) on Saturday December 23 2006, @03:56AM (#17347030)
    (http://www.doubleu.com/)
    MacOS X embedded? WTF? I mean, I'm sure it's a wet dream to imagine that you could run the same thing across a bunch of platforms, but ... no, it's not going to be the same thing, or even a very similar thing. In fact, there's a word for it: it will be a different thing.

    I mean, look at Windows CE. The main similarity it has to Windows XP is that they both have Windows in their names. Sure, there are APIs which are similar between them - that's because if you have an existing API to do a particular job and it's working fine, you'd be silly to create an entirely new API to do the exact same job. Likewise for code. Just as Solaris and Linux have similar APIs in some places. But nobody would describe Linux as "Open-Source Solaris", except to idiots.

    Wait. Oh, OK, I get it. Carry on.
  • NIH (Score:2, Interesting)

    by oohshiny (998054) on Saturday December 23 2006, @05:23AM (#17347284)
    Apple has an excellent kernel available to them that already runs on numerous embedded systems, has lots of drivers, and is compatible with their userland: Linux. Instead, they pour lots of resources into doing their own port of OS X. What are they hoping to accomplish? The whole thing looks like a serious case of "NIH".
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  • by rjpear (1033976) on Saturday December 23 2006, @06:05AM (#17347366)
    Wasn't the AMIGA's os Embedded on a ROM chip? I remember it booted quickly and ran well! .. Ahh...The days when things just ran...
  • Ruggedized MacBook (Score:1)

    by RogueWarrior65 (678876) on Saturday December 23 2006, @09:11AM (#17347838)
    That's really cool. Now what we need is a ruggedized MacBook a la ToughBook. Something that can get tossed around, dusty, and wet.
  • Wow. (Score:2)

    by Zebra_X (13249) on Saturday December 23 2006, @09:30AM (#17347884)
    So apple finally tears a page out of Microsofts book and builds an OS for embedded devices. Lol. And this is news because....
    • Re:Wow. by 4D6963 (Score:2) Saturday December 23 2006, @09:56AM
  • Sigh... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by maztuhblastah (745586) on Saturday December 23 2006, @09:55AM (#17347958)
    This is one of those rumours (especially the OSXon-a-phone part) where I look at the rumour-sayer and repeat: "Are you retarded?"

    Seriously -- there are a variety of technical reasons why Apple will never try and embed OS X in a phone... I would hope that anyone reading this comment can guess why. If you need a hint, think of why the iPod doesn't do OS X (something about overkill, the bad example of Windows XP, etc.)
  • Embedded? (Score:1)

    by slashthedot (991354) on Saturday December 23 2006, @02:52PM (#17349296)
    (http://www.osgeek.blogspot.com/)
    I am waiting for the announcement from Apple that they are switching their kernel to OpenSolaris. DTrace and ZFS ports are just a start.
    • Re:Embedded? by Watson Ladd (Score:2) Sunday December 24 2006, @09:07PM
  • May (Score:2)

    by easter1916 (452058) on Saturday December 23 2006, @04:10PM (#17349664)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    Um, shouldn't that headline have read "Might OS X go embedded?" It may, if Steve grants it permission.
  • by CDPatten (907182) on Saturday December 23 2006, @05:33PM (#17350072)
    (http://www.pattensoap.com/)
    Here is just another example of how MS keeps following Apple's lead...

    Oh wait. Nevermind.

    FLAME AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Oblig. (Score:1)

    by corychristison (951993) on Saturday December 23 2006, @09:41PM (#17351062)
    localhost user # emerge -av expansive-opportunities

    These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

    Calculating dependencies emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "expansive-opportunities".
    Damn... I guess it's not ready yet.
  • Re:That's nice (Score:1)

    by General Lee's Peking (954826) on Saturday December 23 2006, @02:34AM (#17346730)
    It's Apple's GUI libraries with the funky licensing. The OS itself (Darwin) is essentially open source. If the embedded OS rumors are true, I don't know what they'll do. I'm only assuming they would get a lot of their kernel code from Darwin.
    [ Parent ]
  • Darwin isn't FreeBSD. Apple has imported code from NetBSD and FreeBSD for userland, but saying its a FreeBSD based OS when the kernel is so different is silly.

    I don't really care about an Apple phone right now. I'd rather have the "iTV". The rumors of an apple iPhone might be true, or it could be a scraped project. It could even be that POS phone developed and used by cingular. I don't think many investors want apple to enter that market. It doesn't make sense unless they want to try to protect the iPod from music phones. I'd rather have a phone thats just a phone and works right with long battery life. There are many times I want an iPod but not a cell phone.
    [ Parent ]
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