The End of the iPod Clickwheel

Rockgod quotes a Mercury News article saying "If a recent patent filing is any indication, Apple Computer may abandon the iconic wheel that has become virtually synonymous with its popular iPod music players. The company had previously explored replacing the click wheel with a virtual one as part of a touch-sensitive display. But now Apple appears to be looking at a third option: a touch-sensitive frame surrounding the display. Rather than click a physical button or press a virtual one on the screen, users would touch an area on the frame to operate their iPod."

Due to Unpatentability?

I don't know if this is related to the news that their patent has fallen through [arstechnica.com] for the user interface based on the clickwheel but if I may speculate, it may have some influence on their decision.

So you might wonder who cares if you can patent an interface or not? If it works, who cares? Well, I would like to point out that if they can't successfully patent the clickwheel & interface, this leads the way for many many knock offs that could potentially function identical to an iPod. If someone can offer an iPod for a fraction of the price, they could potentially steal a part of the market share.

So it might seem that a part of their strategy is to introduce an equally intuitive interface with the user (that they can patent) so as to maintain their unique offering to the consumer. Maybe they don't think their name brand reorganization & iTMS compatibility is sufficient to keep a hold on the market. But it's not certain the market will love the new interface as much as the old ... so it is definitely a risky move either way. Perhaps they could market both flavors of iPod interface?

The simplest explanation is that they're just testing the waters for interfaces that they can patent.

Re:Due to Unpatentability?

That patent was on the hierarchical UI, not the clickwheel at all.

Interesting

Sounds like they're not really doing away with the wheel, but rather just relocating it around the screeen. I love my 4G ipod and the click wheel interface has alot to do with that. Hopefully this new interface won't change things too much. The wheel has become iconic at this point and Apple may be making a critical mistake if they remove it.

Re:Interesting

What tactile feeling is there on any of the touch sensitive clickwheels (ie, everything for the past few generations)?

It's not entirely flush with the case, is it? I'm not too familiar with the most recent models, but as far as I'm aware the wheel itself has a slight relief against the case, guiding the thumb around it. On a completely flat screen, you can "colour outside the lines" and go off the screen unless you are actually looking at it at the time.

Whatever they choose. . .

Iconic or not, I just want it work well and be easy to use.

if it ain't broke...

i hate to say it... but apple may be cutting their own throats here if this change goes through. you know the old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." however as the current masters of electronic aesthetic design, i'm sure they have many many intelligent people working on this.

Re:if it ain't broke...

you know the old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Apple is known for not following that rule. For instance, when the iPod nano was introduced, it replaced the iPod mini, which was doing very well on the market. Hardly any other company would have done that because of the conservative "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mindset of the corporate world.

"If a recent patent filing is any indication..."

"If a recent patent filing is any indication..." Well, it isn't an indication of any such thing. Apple patents stuff alla time and some things make it and some don't. Just because you see Apple filing a patent doesn't mean they will do anything with it. More likely in this case it is to prevent others from marketing the idea.

Why do people consider this an OR situation?

Let us assume for a minute that Apple actually plans on producing one of these new interface designs that show up in patent applications from time to time.
Why does everyone seem to assume that one of these newfangled non-physical-clickwheel interfaces will be used on a replacement for the iPod as we currently know it? I mean, most of the complaints are right on the money:
*A full screen iPod would have worse battery life, all things being equal, than an iPod with a smaller screen.
*A non-physical-clickwheel would be harder to use blindly, as in a pocket.
*A non-physical-clickwheel would be an abandonment of the most iconic part of the brand.
*A "true video" iPod would involve compromises making it a less ideal music player.
All these arguments (and more) being legitimate, why do people continue to get worked up in a lather every rumor?
Why do people fail to realize that one of these new interface designs, if one ever shows up, will likely be on a new iPod model, not a replacement, but an additional model (video oriented) from which to chose from?

Re: Mod parent up

Nailed it on the head. This design is *not* intended to replace the clickwheel on regular iPods. Anyone who thinks that is not using their noggin. It is clear that the target of this design is the long-rumored, video-oriented product. Move the controls off the front of the device in order to allow the screen size to increase substantially. That's it.

Bah

If a recent patent filing is any indication,

These days, patent filings are rarely indicative of the delivery of any product.

In fact, the claim is often made that patents are usually filed exclusively to create barriers for competitors.

I hope not

The touchwheel is finicky enough as it is, always going one past the selection I want, or moving when I lift my finger to select. I can't imagine using a touchscreen is going to be any better.

Probably not as bad as this first sounds for Apple

My first reaction was of the "Bad idea to tamper with highly successful idea" sort.

Then again, I remember more than a few people casting aspersions on the click wheel interface, myself included, generally focusing on the perceived unreliability of touch-sensitive inputs, especially in the environments where people will use an iPod.

I'm going to assume that the marketing and design folks at Apple aren't going to commit production to a change this major until they're certain, beyond cursory focus group research, that their new interface won't turn people off to the iPod. I expect high demand among the target demographic for a cool new toy, and if there's one thing at which Apple's proved itself with regard to portable electronics, it's the manufacture of cool new toys (the jury's still out on functionality, reliability, and DRM issues, of course).

I'm sure i'm the minority, but i for one am glad

I just got my first ipod last week, its a 30G ipod video. I won it as a prize. I have a PDA which i've always felt sufficient for listening to music and watching movies, although limited in storage space. I figured i'd give the ipod a shot because it has a longer battery life and a lot more storage. I don't know if its because i'm coming from a touch screen interface to the clickwheel, but i didn't like the clickwheel. Although i think the design to be 1 handed is nice, i constantly missed my mark and 'bumped' it inadvertently. I would've much preferred depressing the buttons to navigate around.
I'm looking forward to the new interface.

A picture is worth a thousand words?

The picture [macrumors.com].

Yuk

That is one of the reasons i like the ipods over the alternatives.

Why is it in todays world companes cant leave well enough alone? if it works, they dont NEED to break it, just to push out new product.

Interactivation

Apple changed the world with their codification of UI design in the 1980s. One fundamental principle of that design is that all UI widgets must interact with the user "immediately" (< 300ms), providing feedback. Users don't just interact with the code executing the app logic - we interact with the widget, which must change state to indicate we've interacted with it. The clickwheel seemed to interact on the screen, making sounds, even though the wheel itself was inert. I hope they can pull it off with a new unconventional UI device.

patent != product

Apple computer has thousands of patents, a large fraction on things they never plan on brining to market. They're just covering their ass.

(Though if they make a full screen video iPod I'd rather touch the edge than wipe my greasy finger on the face.)

Whoops, wrong response. How about "OMGWTF? plz don't fk with my ipod, lozrs!"
Or "Typical moron Apple move. DRM sux."

Sony touch screen cameras

Have any of you had a chance to use the Sony cameras with touch screens? OMG! It works shockingly well. They replaced the five button (four directional and one center) along with various other buttons with a new layout on the enlarged screen.

I think we're going to see an iPod much like that. The whole face of the device will be one big 'wide' screen and the buttons will be right there on the screen. A bigger display and bigger buttons.

Haven't we already seen 'rumors' of this design?

Yes. That.

When you are holding an iPod, you have a thumb on the front, and four fingers on the side. If you turn the iPod on it's side - it becomes a 16x9 screen that takes up the entire surface real estate. If the iPod is held sideways as such, you would hold it with a thumb on the bottom, a finger on the top, and three fingers dangling behind. The thought I'm having is simply this: relocate the clickwheel from the front....to the back, where your middle finger would be able to control it; and thereby giving you the maximum potential screen real estate for video viewing. After all, they're not just trying to sell iPods, they're trying to sell their iTMS as well - and undoubtedly trying to push their movies.

iRiver?

It sounds like they are trying to emulate the way iRiver Clix/U10 MP3/Video players work. The edges of the screen are the buttons on that one. Its a fantastic control scheme and so far the best MP3 interface I've found.

No, No, No

I'd hate this. The main feature that differentiates the iPod from anything else is the clickwheel. Replacing it with anything else, even a "virtual" wheel, is a Bad Idea. The whole point is tactile feedback. With a touch-screen control, I don't really know if the iPod "heard" what I was telling it. It would make me feel disconnected from the device, which is exactly what Apple tries to eliminate. With real feedback that I can feel (and hear, if it's in a quiet environment), it's much more inuitive and less difficult to use. And as another poster mentioned, it would be damn near impossible to use blind, like if it's in a pocket or something. I just can't imagine that Jobs and Ives would give the go-ahead to this idea. It's too big of a coneptual leap, and it makes the iPod HARDER to use, not easier.

Mockup

Here's a picture of what it might look like: http://guides.macrumors.com/Image:Ipodvideo.jpg [macrumors.com]

That figures.

I finally broke down and bought an iPod thirty-eight - no, nine (thank you, DST) - hours ago, and now they're going to change it all up? The rat bastards.

Looks like all my years of supercilious PC-user loathing for all things Apple were justified, after all!! Well, I'll show them - just you wait to see what I do with those Apple stickers you so helpfully put in the box...JUST YOU WAIT.

(Yes, I have been up all night migrating DBs, bouncing servers, and racking crap in our cage. How could you tell?)

Lots of things had this so called tech for years.

I think I had a lamp 15 years ago that would turn on, dim, and turn off by touching any metal on it.

Patent != Product

FTFA: "If a recent patent filing is any indication, Apple Computer may abandon the iconic wheel that has become virtually synonymous with its popular iPod music players."

Need I remind the writers of the Mercury News that, just because a company has filed for a patent on something, does not mean that they intend to roll it out in their product line. Look at IBM, the most prolific filer of patents in the world. Of the thousands of patents they are granted each year, only a small handful (comparatively speaking) ever amount to anything. Most of the IP is captured solely "just in case" they find a use for it. Oftentimes, they use those filings as leverage or bargaining chips in negotations with other companies, or for attracting customers. Even if they themselves don't commercialize it, they can license it to another company to develop. It is a common thing in the world of business: a good idea from one of your employees is worth capturing, even if its present use is not apparent.

They won't return to touch sensitive buttons...

Anyone who owned a thrid generation ipod knows that Apple won't go back to touch sensitive buttons. The buttons on the third generation ipod were horrible. You'd have to frequently toggle the hold switch to recalibrate the ipod so it would be sensitive to your fingers. Even then, you usually got the best result when you brushed your finger past the button rather than just touching it. Apparently Apple knew this, because all future generations have gone back to tactile feedback buttons with mechanical engagement.

The current generation of ipods seems to be a good balance. I can put my ipod into my jeans and control it through the denum. The buttons are easy to find due to their attraction to one side of the ipod, and the wheel is sensitive enough to pick up the finger through the denim.

With this in mind, and looking at the history of ipod design, it looks like Apple abandoned the capacitive buttons in favor of tactile ones. You may not realize why unless you owned a third generation, but ask anyone who has and you're likely to hear a similar story.

While I can see this being useful, I can also see it being a failure. Maybe Apple is just patenting things that their competition might try.

It's interesting but...

How are you going to hold the damn thing when every spot along the edge does something?

Just because they patented something doesn't mean they're going to use it. It may turn out to have inherent problems which make it unusable.

Some points

A few things to point out. As the article mentioned, Apple just filed a patent on an idea. It doesn't necessarily mean that it will happen. Two, the patent seems to cover just a video iPod with a full screen. That doesn't mean that all iPods would adopt the new interface. An iPod Shuffle has a different wheel than the 5G and the nano. Even if Apple were using, they are probably not abandoning the click wheel completely.

Bang & Olufsen

Incredble that everything about the iPod comes from that Steve Jobs, like me, buys TV and stereo from Bang and Olufsen. And has been marvelled by the excellent design of Bang and Olufsen in the late 80s - mid 90s. Like the scollwheel on their cordless phone 6000 system, for 10 years and still today unrivalled as the worlds best cordless phone system.

BeoCord 6000 [bang-olufsen.com]

Also incredible that Bang and Olufsen had it but lost it. Much of their junk today is overpriced with worse specs than a Panaphonics, Magnetbox or Sorny. Their MP3-player sucks, their new tech is pwned by Microsoft and their cell phone is the worst piece of crap ever produced, overdesigned and useless. The only thing they lack is to smear their shit down with Swarowsky bling-bling. My guess is that Bang & Olufsen today is managed by clueless MBA n00bs that groks nothing.

Steve Jobs is a genius.

please

so they filed a patent. apple files patents all the time - what ever happened to the one they filed about the touchless click wheel? http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=17738&hed =Apple+Ponders+a+Touchless+iPod [redherring.com] a filing like this does not mean it is the end of the road for the click wheel. the click wheel has brought apple a ton of revenue and one patent filing will not change all that. nothing to get excited about here.

Another Tool In the Shed

Sure, Apple may be making a full screen ipod. And there are a lot of tactile features it'll be lacking - or will it?

Lets look at the device for what it is - a video player. A larger screen attached to a hard drive and battery. Designed for playing movies on a larger screen that your standard ipod.

Apple will still have iPods designed for "pocket use". They aren't going to slap a full screen on a nano or shuffle. That would be silly. Apple will continue to increase the storage of these devices to make the next iPod worthy of buying.

Now, lets say you get an iPod video and just 'have' to have a clickwheel. I can agree - having it in a pocket or a screen protecting case would make it difficult to change songs or volume.

Why couldn't this be on a corded or cordless remote? The aftermarket is already in bed with iPods - this wouldn't be a difficult device to market if Apple doesn't beat them too it.

And if nobody thought it up, well - nevermind, there's nothing to see here. (running to the patent office)

So

Why reinvent the wheel!

Why do things like this get patents?

Why do things like this get patents? The touchpad has already been invented. Will this prevent other manufacturers from putting touchpads around their screens? That's ridiculous. It just seems like everything is patented (or pending) today even if it's not an invention of any kind.

Can we ban all stories starting with...

"If a recent patent filing is any indication, Apple Computer..."

hmm..

i have a video ipod, and i love it, but i always thought that it would be really cool if you could put the 2g (4 buttons and a wheel) interface with video. i miss that.
alexultima

Apple = fashion

Apple is equal to fashion. How is fashion different from technological innovation?

Both are about bringing new replacing the old. In case of fashion it is superficial replacement, in case of technological innovation it goes much deeper.

TA tells us about a rumer on a typical new Apple fashion. So were modifications of the Macs, MacII -> iMac, etc. Most of the features of new OS's are about fashion as well. Apple is notorious for doing just that.

No wonder girls like Apple more than guys (or folks of non-traditional orientation) (here are two troll points for you, modders). People of humanitarian disciplines (designers, artists, architects, ...) - using fashionable computers to create fashionable products.

The fact that Apple is gaining points in the PC market speaks volumes of who we, computer users, are becoming, and the maturity of personal computer industry.

With this I conclude my chaotic and not very well organized rant. Oh, I forgot. I abhor, deplore, hate, despise, resent fashion.

Clickwheel must stay

iPod without clickwheel is not iPod

Clickwheel is symbol of iPod

click wheel not so good.

Creative Zen's scroll upside down is more intuitive and you don't have to rotate hands. if you drag your finger upside down, the list will scroll down and vice versa. Also, if you scroll down and hold touching the sensor, the list will scroll faster and you don't have to move your finger except to stop scrolling. I find Zen's scroll more intuitive and easier to use.

you could say..

.. They are reinventing the clickwheel... Thank you, Thank you.. I'm here all week.

'If a recent patent filing is any indication' ...

'If a recent patent filing is any indication'...

It isn't.

what about the blind?

more and more reasons for blind people to not buy an ipod.... :(

Think about it. I'm sure blind people must _love_ listening to music.
You'd think every blind person would have one...but...ever tried using an ipod in the dark or, like me, using one with a broken screen? That click is the only thing I have to navigate by.

Stupid patent

My Psion 5 has had a "touch-sensitive frame" since 1998.

The clickwheel is bad, this is worse...

It's a music player, not a PDA. It should be designed so you can operate it blindfolded.

The Shuffle has it right. A D-Pad with the five important controls: forward, back, volume-up, volume-down, and play/pause. Additional controls can be added for devices that have a display. That bit can even be touch-sensitive, but the basic controls have to be usable by feel even when the display controls are locked.

I would like to see...

...one article about an apple patent that didn't forgonely conclude the doom of the UI/watever that it might replace.

Too Soon

Apple won't dump the Click Wheel yet. Just because Apple patented the scroll strips doesn't mean it'll be the next big thing. Anyone remember when Apple patented a tablet design? Everyone went nuts saying "the iTablet will be announced at the next MacWorld." I have yet to see an iTablet. Have any of you seen an iTablet yet? Didn't think so.

Re:I never really liked the clickwheel.

Perhaps if you had an opposable thumb...