Jobs Unfazed by Zune

twofish writes "In an interview at Newsweek marking the approaching 5th anniversary of the launch of the iPod, Apple CEO Steve Jobs seems unconcerned by Microsoft's wannabe iPod killer Zune. Earphone sharing will prove a more potent force for social networking than the iPod rival's wireless song-sharing feature, he reckons. 'I've seen the demonstrations on the internet about how you can find another person using a Zune and give them a song they can play three times. It takes forever,' he says in the article. 'By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.'"

Incredible Speaker

It always amazes me how smoothly Jobs manages to deliver presentations, even when he's put on the spot. And without any of the dodging and doublespeak you expect from most company execs.

I know a lot of Slashdotters hate iTunes for "DRM", "not HD(TV) quality", "too expensive", or whatever other B.S. excuse they can come up with, but...

Q: No, but you've asked them not to raise their prices, when some of them wanted to.
A: Our core initial strategy on the store was that if you want to stop piracy, the way to stop it is by competing with it, by offering a better product at a fair price. In essence, we would make a deal with people. If they would pay a fair price, we would give them a better product and they would stop being pirates

...THIS is why I support iTunes. They know they have to be competitive in the market, so they are. They keep prices acceptable, even in face of stupid, greedy record companies. Jobs makes no bones about it, and he tells both the labels and the consumers the same thing. There are no "backroom deals" going on here, just a company trying to deliver the best product possible at a price the market can afford.

You won't find that sort of business done at Microsoft. Their strategy is:

1. Announce a competing product with limitless fanfare. Doesn't matter if it sucks.
2. Slowly improve it until the market finds it semi-acceptable.
3. Leverage the Windows monopoly to CRUSH the competition.

Didn't you hear? You can only use iPods with a Mac. With Zuma, you can be compatible with the millions of Microsoft Vista machines, out of the box! Plus, you know you're getting Microsoft Quality(TM) and Support(TM) when you purchase a Zuma. Those other digital music companies could fold tomorrow, leaving you with no music and no refund. Only Microsoft products can provide you with a guaranteed safety net! </standard-Microsoft-bull>

I've seen the demonstrations on the Internet about how you can find another person using a Zune and give them a song they can play three times. It takes forever. By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.

You know, he's got a point. It might seem very impressive in a geeky way to Zuma a file across the room to the pretty girl (if you don't mind that I just used "Zuma" as a verb), but she is definitely not going to be impressed unless she's also a geek. You've also got the matter of the song being played in a vacuum, where your own thoughts and feelings on the tune are missing. Thus it holds no meaning. Besides, pod-jacking [wikipedia.org] gives you a much better chance of being able to talk to that pretty girl. ;-)

Doublespeak he can't avoid...

Good comments, but Jobs does have his own bits of doublespeak. When he says that customers aren't asking for compatibility he's either defining his terms VERY carefully or he's in denial.

On the other hand he can't say "we can't adopt Microsoft's proprietary DRM instead of our own proprietary DRM because: (A) Microsoft will crush us, and (B) Microsoft's DRM is too effective for customers to put up with... the main reason we can get away with what we're doing in the iTunes Store is because everyone knows our DRM is little more than 'honor system'."

Though it would be refreshing to hear that/ He could go on with "You know, back before we introduced DRM I pointed out that DRM is basically impossible to make more than 'honor system' anyway, and our success really proves how right I was."

Re:Doublespeak he can't avoid...

He's right that, by and large, customers aren't asking for compatibility. Nerds on Slashdot are asking for compatibility. The millions upon millions of laymen who bought the lion's share of iPods barely even realize it's an issue.

Re:Doublespeak he can't avoid...

Because for them (and for me, honestly) it isn't something to "barely even realize" -- it really isn't an issue.

Re:Doublespeak he can't avoid...

On the other hand he can't say "we can't adopt Microsoft's proprietary DRM instead of our own proprietary DRM because: (A) Microsoft will crush us, and (B) Microsoft's DRM is too effective for customers to put up with... the main reason we can get away with what we're doing in the iTunes Store is because everyone knows our DRM is little more than 'honor system'."

Maybe it's actually (C) Microsoft fucked everybody over who went with their PlaysForSure DRM, but we saw it coming, and developed our own system (probably not the reason, but it would be perfectly valid).

I think Apple knows it's DRM is really a joke, but it's enough to appease the RIAA. Much as Jobs might want to throw that into the RIAAs face, I think he knows the RIAA would be too stupid to agree, and there's no way they'd let Apple strip the DRM from the iTunes store.

Re:Incredible Speaker

And you better believe Microsoft would weep with joy if people started using "Zune" as a verb.

The correct verb form of "Zune" is "squirt".

Usage:

I want to squirt you a picture of my kids. You want to squirt me back a video of your vacation.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/o ct2006/tc20061011_940241.htm

Peace be with you,
-jimbo

Re:Incredibly inappropriate:

I think you'll be asking for Cytheria more than Jenna.

Re:Incredibly inappropriate:

"I think you'll be asking for Cytheria more than Jenna."

I don't know what is more disturbing: that I knew what /exactly/ the parent referred to, or that enough people knew to mod it up to 5.

Re:Incredible Speaker

*Sigh* Another victim of the Reality Distortion Field (TM).

You know, he's got a point. It might seem very impressive in a geeky way to Zuma a file across the room to the pretty girl (if you don't mind that I just used "Zuma" as a verb), but she is definitely not going to be impressed unless she's also a geek. You've also got the matter of the song being played in a vacuum, where your own thoughts and feelings on the tune are missing. Thus it holds no meaning. Besides, pod-jacking gives you a much better chance of being able to talk to that pretty girl. ;-)

You know damned well that when (not if) iPod comes out with wireless, his tune on that will change in a hurry. Kind of like Intel was slow until Apple was using it.

Of course, he'll have an answer about how impersonal wireless was until Apple did it. And he'll be partly right. But for now, wireless is a Zuma advangage - right now, the guy can podjack (zumajack?) the pretty girl, then when she likes the song, he can Zuma it to her. That would be pretty cool. MS should let users associate a text message with the song, that would be better. Also, would be even cooler if it didn't disappear immediately, but whatever.

I like my iPod and my powerbook, but Steve's just a little *too* slick for me. It makes me not trust anything he says, whether he's right or wrong, simply because if you let yourself get caught up in his spin, you *will* believe whatever he says.

Re:Incredible Speaker

You're actually missing Steve's point. He's not saying wireless sharing of music isn't a useful feature, he's saying that it's too complicated to be useful right now. So yes, he'll change his tune but only after Apple finds a way to do it "right".

Re:Incredible Speaker

That's basically what Jobs has done all along. He's shown that he's never one to completely disregard in the future what doesn't work today. He's just a perfectionist and doesn't want to throw in the latest bells and whistles until he feels it is ready for your everyday user to consume. That's one thing that Microsoft doesn't get—they want the most features possible and so they end up releasing a lot of stuff, that while it sounds cool, often doesn't work as advertised until a couple of service packs later.

I also wanted to address a point from the grandparent, which your point actually addresses (albeit a little broadly):

You know damned well that when (not if) iPod comes out with wireless, his tune on that will change in a hurry. Kind of like Intel was slow until Apple was using it.

That's a bit of a misinformed statement. Intel was slow. PowerPC was kicking Intel ass up through the early G4's. Unfortunately, IBM didn't keep up with R&D for their consumer PowerPC chips to stay competitive with Intel. So, like a good businessman, Jobs did was right for the consumer and switched his product to use the more competitive parts.

I assure you that once Steve Jobs feels the time is right for things like iPod wireless, or iPhone, or whatever else "everyone" is clamoring for, he'll do it.

Re:Incredible Speaker

Zune's wireless sharing isn't a killer app. Jobs knows this. Ballmer should. From a technical standpoint all the ingredients are already in place in the Zune for this to be genuinely useful. Random wireless p2p sharing isn't really practical. Where the wireless sharing would be really useful would be having a base station in Starbucks, GAP, airports etc where you could download songs for free. The M$ DRM there makes more sense. But that would require a pull model instead of Microsofts push model.

You could still have a song of the day to allow people to try out new music. Record stores might like something like that. Instead of listening to headphones in a store you push a button which sends the song to any zunes within range (which accept it). You get 3 chances to decide if you like it and then buy the song. But, such usage is totally at odds with Microsofts marketing.

In fairness, Apple have made similar mistakes at times. Podcasting started and grew without them. They were very quick to tap into it though which comes back to your point about Jobs being a perfectionist who doesn't want to release something until it works perfectly. Incidentally the Zune sharing wouldn't fit too well with the iTS as it functions currently. It would however be perfect for the wide range of playsforsure stores.

Re:Incredible Speaker

[Jobs is] saying that it's too complicated to be useful right now

Give the man a prize. This was exactly Jobs' point. He didn't say anything to suggest that he's opposed to the idea of wireless transfers, just that the Zune sucks at it. If the iPod were to add this feature, it would probably require you to cross the room, stand next to the girl (again, giving you that chance to talk to her), and very simply and painlessly initiate the file transfer. Knowing Apple, you'd probably be able to broadcast your current playlist to nearby iPods, allows you to pod-jack without even pod-jacking. Which would be in support of existing market needs (something which Apple excels at) rather than trying to force a feature onto the market that no one is asking for.

Re:Incredible Speaker

It always amazes me that users who are running a Microsoft operating system with dozens of services and executables active applications - and even more services-like behavior concealed within services or system libraries - would object to iTunesHelper.

Re:Incredible Speaker

>Most people would never put someone's elses earbud into their own ear, I know I would never do so.

Dude, no wonder you don't get sex! It involves inserting.... naughty bits into other naughty bits.... And don't even get me started on foreplay.... and other forms of sexual entertainment... I am glad you are not averse putting your penis in your hand. ;-)

In other news ...

Teenage girls all over America issue restraining orders against Steve Jobs, related to his attempts to "share his earphones" with them.

Consider the Zune in that case

Teenage girls all over America issue restraining orders against Steve Jobs, related to his attempts to "share his earphones" with them.

Meanwhile teenage girls are buying handguns and taking the law into thier own hands after hearing Balmer is coming to "Squirt" them with his "Brown Zune".

Re:In other news ...

A stranger trying to shove his ear-waxy headphones into me is a total turn off, by the way. And who's to say they don't have a heroin-tipped needle in them or something worse (like AIDS).

What a scary world you live in!
I guess if headphones being inserted are a turn off, any other penetration is right off the menu.

Re:In other news ...

I guess if headphones being inserted are a turn off, any other penetration is right off the menu.

In my earholes, yes.

Re:In other news ...

AIDS transmission via earwax? Please get off the net, Senator Frist.

Re:In other news ...

AIDS transmission via earwax? Please get off the net, Senator Frist.

you do him an injustice. this is a serious form of the disease, called hearing AIDS.

(sorry)

The master has spoken...

'By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.'

Dating advice for using the iPod?! Let's see Bill Gates top that with the Zune!

Re:The master has spoken...

``Let's see Bill Gates top that with the Zune!''

Nah, I think I'd rather not watch that.

How Is This News?

Apple: Jobs Unfazed by Zune ... from the well-he-would-say-that dept.

How is this news?

Of course he's 'unfazed' by the Zune. He sits atop a company that currently has massive (and, more importantly, very loyal) fanbase in both computers and portable media players.

Microsoft is new to this market and I doubt jobs will be afraid of anybody (even Microsoft) in this market. Hell, I'll bet Jobs isn't even concerned about iRiver's or Sony's products even though they seem to have been in the market longer.

What was he supposed to do? Halt all production and support of iPods at the sight of the Zune and declare that he's beaten? Is he supposed to assume the fetal position and cower and cry when he hears the word 'Zune?' Retreat to the northern woods where he trains night and day so that one day he might come back and beat Microsoft in some other fashion?

I would be shocked if Jobs said anything otherwise. What's our next headline for Slashdot? Is it going to be "Steve Ballmer's Kids Love Zune"? What about "Jobs Says New Mac Models Are Good"? You gotta keep up those hard hitting headlines.

The questions in this article are laughable! Interviewer: "Jobs, I've pitched you so many softball questions but in an effort to pitch you another, how can the iPod lose its popularity with Dick Cheney and Queen Elizabeth owning one?" Jobs: "It can't, but let me attempt to be modest as you pop a woody for me." Interviewer: "I know you've only sold millions of iPods so let me attempt to further illustrate how great it is, will it always be about the music?" Jobs: "It's about whatever makes it sell the most."

Stop humping his leg!

I think the only way you could worry Jobs is if you made a media device that physically pleasures the user (with nods to Stanislaw Lem). Although Jobs could just fire back that the video playing iPod requires some effort but can meet the same needs.

Re:How Is This News?

How is this news?

I would be shocked if Jobs said anything otherwise. What's our next headline for Slashdot? Is it going to be "Steve Ballmer's Kids Love Zune"? What about "Jobs Says New Mac Models Are Good"? You gotta keep up those hard hitting headlines.

How is this news? Simple: By reading between the lines.

Every company delivers the same BS of, "We think our competitor provides no real challenge in the market." But if you actually listen to what they're saying, you can hear what they really think about it. Sort of like how Ballmer's denials of Google's importance always come across as, "I want to throw a f#@$ing CHAIR at those Google DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS!"

Add feature when they can make them work.

Apples Strength is that they tend to only add features that people really need and can use. Microsoft just takes whatever people complain about not having and shove it in there doesn't matter if it is really useful or not. Apple knows that people wants wireless access to their iPod but apple won't put it in there until they can find a way to make it right, so it is actually a benefit vs. an expensive feature that people won't use, more then just past the for 1/2 hour for the ohhs and ahhs.
Lets take a look at virtual screens. OS X is just releasing this as a new feature in its OS next year, Unix/Linux has had this feature for decades. Why now did apple finally release it. Well because there is enough CPU/GPU power to make it so people can understand it and not call and complain about there windows being missing. Or not seeing where they put what. It is about not releasing a feature until it can be made useful. Not just putting in a feature half hazardly jest because people who like buzzwords say they want it.

Re:Add feature when they can make them work.

Apples Strength is that they tend to only add features that people really need and can use. Microsoft just takes whatever people complain about not having and shove it in there doesn't matter if it is really useful or not. Apple knows that people wants wireless access to their iPod but apple won't put it in there until they can find a way to make it right, so it is actually a benefit vs. an expensive feature that people won't use, more then just past the for 1/2 hour for the ohhs and ahhs.
Lets take a look at virtual screens. OS X is just releasing this as a new feature in its OS next year, Unix/Linux has had this feature for decades. Why now did apple finally release it. Well because there is enough CPU/GPU power to make it so people can understand it and not call and complain about there windows being missing. Or not seeing where they put what. It is about not releasing a feature until it can be made useful. Not just putting in a feature half hazardly jest because people who like buzzwords say they want it.

I like your points. It brings to mind two students that have to write a term paper that has to be 50 pages. One student fills it with crap and changes the font size and spacing until it reaches that 50 pages, thereby fullfilling the minimum. The other student ignores the 50 page requirement and just researches the subject and writes until the paper makes sense. The teacher with any brains (or interest in the subject matter) is going to grade the second student higher. Not all teachers have any brains. Big corporations and especially governments won't take anything other than 50 pages and won't really read it anyway.

Apple did its homework with the iPod and worked hard for that A. Microsoft glanced over to copy as much as it could, slapped something together, put a pretty font on it, slapped some stickers on it and put it in a nice brown binder. Microsoft gets the C.

gross!

what person in their right mind would stick and earbud from some hard-legged dude in their ear? that is just gross

Keep looking

If you need a novel way to pick up girls then neither the iPod, nor the Zune will do that for you, sorry, keep looking.

The sky is falling!

Wait, what? Steve Jobs is talking about _girls_? And he works at _Apple_? /me ducks

Unfazed?

Really? I would have thought he would praise them for their innovation and talk about what Apple is doing to catch up with Microsoft, a company renowned for being 'in touch' and 'with it', now that five years after the release of the ipod, they finally have something that even comes close.

Huh?

You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear.

Why not just keep both earbuds where they are, enjoy the music, and still stick it in her ear? Or am I misunderstanding something here...?

Re:Huh?

I think you're missing an R near the end of your first sentence. That's okay, though, as the sentence parses correctly when spoken aloud.

Apple being unfazed

Wasn't there a time when Apple was unfazed by IBM-PCs? :>

How is this news?

What is Jobs susposed to say? "I'm scared, help me!!!" ?

Earphone sharing...

"Earphone sharing will prove a more potent force for social networking than the iPod rival's wireless song-sharing feature, he reckons"

Not to mention social diseases as well. "Remember: Wipe the Wax! This public service announcment brought to you by the Department of Public Health".

Zune's wifi sharing = Palm's Business Card Beaming

Just as geeky as the 90's version of uncool, tragically unhip, business dudes and engineers beaming business cards to each other. The novelty will wear off after 2 tries. The only people who will do it are going to be geeks... Oh wait, the geeks are going to buy an Ogg Vorbis player made by a Taiwanese company that nobody's heard off....

The only people who will use this feature are going to be the dorks working in Microsoft's Zune division who came up with this non-feature... well, at least until they get laid off....

Re:Zune's wifi sharing = Palm's Business Card Beam

Wireless sharing for the Zune is not about sharing songs with a girl in a bar. It is entirely about giving Starbucks a means for sending you commercials disguised as "zune-casts" when you walk into their shop.

Mod parent -1 miss-the-point

There's nothing cool about handing out business cards whether it's physical paper or digital data. Cool isn't even on the screen.

Beaming cards was mainstream... I had a wrecker driver wave a palm at me when he was towing my car in 2000... until the iPaq finally got a fast enough processor in the ARM to make Microsoft's handheld OS usable, and Palm lost the plot and tried to turn the Palm into the same kind of "laptop replacement" device Microsoft was pushing. Pocket PCs wrecked beaming.

Why?

The Pocket PC makes beaming business cards a cumbersome trial that only the geeky can handle. You had to navigate multiple menus, switch modes in the receiving device, and wait, and wait. The Palm made it simple and automatic... just hold one button down and it Just Works, and works *quickly*.

So the question is... will the Zune make beaming music "a cumbersome trial" or "simple and automatic"? How long will it take?

Is Steve Jobs a pimp or what

This just screams pimp to me. "You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.'" Steve "huggy bear"Jobs

Trick of words

Jobs conveniently ignores that people also have two headphones with the Zune.

To the contrary, he panders to some cliche of the socially inept nerd who _will in situations where iPod users share an earplug, instead insist on Zuning the song across_. I don't really like that.

The functionality is in addition to that the iPod has. In addition to the (often girl-involving) set of situations where sharing an earplug is nice, you get the entirely different set of situations where someone might appreciate having one of your songs. And to be fair I think the first set is bigger than the second, but all features are appreciated.

yes but..

Earphone sharing definitely gets you closer to her for a minute or two, but transferring an mp3 to her she can listen to 3 times w/ your phone number in the title. Priceless.

Think inside the box, Jobs

What if the woman has a Zune and I have such a raging iPod at that moment?

I'm with Taco

This is lame. Go for the Nomad instead [slashdot.org].

But seriously - the iPod seemed lame compared to Creative's nomad when it first came out. Yet it suceeded. Why? What does it have that all the mp3 players that cane out before and cost less lack?

Re:I'm with Taco

What does it have that all the mp3 players that cane out before and cost less lack?

Ease of use and style. Unfortunately, these things mean very little to some of Slashdot's technocentric readership, so they are constantly overlooked as unimportant, or, at times, it is implied that anyone who chooses ease of use and style over maximum features and geek cred is stupid.

The iPod succeeds because it tackles a very narrow set of problems very well. It makes managing and listening to large music (and now video) libraries very, very easy. It doesn't try to pack in a lot of the bells and whistles which would detract from its primary purpose. Because of this, the people who designed the hardware and software were able to focus their efforts on a very few tasks instead of trying to tie together several separate and disparate functions on one machine. Why is this important?

Because most consumers want a device which is 1) easy to understand and 2) easy to use. The technofetishism which attracts a lot of the serious geek crowd is of no value to them. So, while the iPod wasn't the first mp3 player, and it lacks features found on some other players, the combination of the iPod, iTunes and good industrial design makes for a killer combo. My technologically clueless brother can use his iPod with no problems and no confusion. He doesn't have to read much of a m anual to use one, or pop through a lot of mensnus in a creaky interface. He can simply copy all his playlists from iTunes to the iPod and listen. The reason for the iPod's success us that the Nomad is a device. The iPod is a well thought out product.

Uploading not Sharing

I think Steve Job has intentionally missed the point. Yes, the whole sharing thing is pointless and won't be used. But Wi-Fi will be the future (hopefully for iPods too) for uploading music to the device and playing back to speakers.

For example, I play music from my MacBook wirelessly to my speakers through my AirPort Express (yes, I'm an Apple fanboy) a lot. I really wish I could do the same, but from my iPod, so I don't have to power up the MacBook. If iPod had Wi-Fi - ta da! Problem solved.

I think Steve knows this is the future but is spreading a little FUD about the Zune. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation of video iPod has wi-fi - carefully timed to arrive with the iTV - so it can play video wirelessly too. It's the next logical step.

The dangers of icky ear buds

If I were Ballmer, I would seek out an opportunity to comment on the doubtless many medical studies that have shown that ear wax, mites, bacteria, Avian flu virus, cooties, parasites, AIDS, those icky crayfish-like ear thingies from "Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan," the gay gene, and terrist nucular WMD materials remain on ear bud surfaces, no matter how clean they seem to be.

I Guess I'm Missing Something...

Won't Zune make use of an earpiece to deliver sound to your brain? Perhaps Apple has a "System and Method for Sending Music to Potential Girlfriend Through Earphone" patent and they intend to strenuously enforce patent violation by Zune users?

"People will buy iPods because they can let someone borrow their iPod to listen and that's faster than copy songs from Zune to Zune." WTF is Jobs on about?

Ipod Vs. Zune Showdown

I think this [bbspot.com] conclusively shows that the iPod will triumph over the Zune.

Subtext?

So what he's really saying is essentially "you're much more likely to get laid with an iPod than a Zune"...

Jobs Unfazed by Zune

Isn't that his job?

Jobs and Apple, have it right - for now.

It takes forever,' he says in the article. 'By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.'"

This kind of common sense thinking demonstrates why Apple are still so far ahead of their competitors - even when equivalent music players offer more, on paper, than the iPod equivalent at a similar price point.

The technology is always hidden behind the usability and is only included if it's absolutely necessary. That's a good enough reason for me to continue buying iPods.

Tomorrow on Slashdot

50% increase in iPod sales after Jobs insisted they get you laid. Most referrals from Slashdot to the Apple Store

Next month:
1000's of virgins request their money back and start a class-action suit against Steve Jobs.

Ofcourse.....

When Apple has come up iPod and has such a strong growth, what do you think he will say? Oh, I am quaking in my boots and start throwing chairs!

sharing headphones

Steve is absolutely right. Sharing music by taking my earphones and letting a stranger shove them in her ears is so much more romantic and allows you a great chance to test the cleanliness of your prospective mate's ears. Seriously, does Steve consider earwax romantic?

Piracy is the Competition...

A: Our core initial strategy on the store was that if you want to stop piracy, the way to stop it is by competing with it, by offering a better product at a fair price. In essence, we would make a deal with people. If they would pay a fair price, we would give them a better product and they would stop being pirates

I've been making this point repeatedly since 1996. This simple fact... that Jobs chose to view piracy as competition, is the single most important reason for iTunes Store's, and consequently Apple's, success.

In a sense, the song is free. The user is paying for convenience (robust UI), fidelity (AAC vs. MP3) and selection that the P2P services cannot provide. Whether you want to call this a form of RDF-ing the features/benefits, the fact is that people do pay for design, convenience and selection.

For this reason, tracing back to Jobs' philosophy of Piracy-IS-Competition (as opposed to the "Throw Tons of Lawsuits to the Wall and See What Sticks" approach), Apple distributes more volume than all P2P services combined... even though their product is free.

Because of the product-software integration Apple has, they have a degree of quality control Microsoft cannot touch. Microsoft does not understand hardware the way Apple does. They see hardware as a repository for their bloatware. Whereas Apple sees software as a means to enable hardware to do things related to productivity and entertainment, but the hardware itself must be built to appeal to the consumer's needs, not the shareholder's.

Just got this from a friend:

You know that Zune allows you to send songs to another Zune over wireless?

Although you, as a Zune owner, can block particular Zunes from sending stuff to you, other Zunes start off in an unblocked state. Do you know what Microsoft have done? They've invented a new kind of spam. Companies will hack the standard and create a box which will automatically find every Zune in the vicinity and send their (audio/video) adverts to them.

You'll have Zune users in public places swearing at the constant interruptions and hitting the 'do not accept' button.

How Zune's Wireless Should Work...

Sitting on the subway, listening to my Zune when I hear a quick couple beeps during my song. My Zune is telling me another Zune just entered my wireless radius. I jump to the wireless screen with one button, and see the user 'Loves2Splooge' has 1242 songs to share. I am able to browse his list as easily as I browse mine - I can even preview the song wirelessly before transfering to my Zune. I take about 30 tracks and permanently store them to my Zune.

THAT would be an iPod killer... what makes it sad is that it's only the stupid software that limits the aforementioned ideas. I hope someone is able to come out with a custom OS that enables users to do just what I've described.

steve can be wrong...

If you look at explosions in other gadgets and human nature... Steve is wrong about Zune's music sharing. Here is why...

Kids love cell phones. They love text messaging. They also love text messaging on their computers. One common theme is to express their individuality by publishing What they're listening to right now. Sometimes in a chat they'll even include a link to the song. Couple this with increasing introverted behavior. Kids will love the ability to share a song via wireless. There is this innate need to get inside the headspace...

Sharing a headphone requires an unwanted and unwelcome [physical] contact.

The Zune wireless can be extended to do more than share music. Its personal publishing.

Yeah, and Pocket PC will never kill Palm OS

Of course Jobs is saying that. Your customers never need features that your product doesn't have.

Want to know another company that said that? PalmSource. Here are some of my favorites:

• PDA users don't need a real FS
• PDA users don't need real multitasking
• PDAs don't need color screens
• PDAs don't need high-resolution screens
• PDAs don't need MP3 or video playback, or any real audio at all

Palm OS devices now have most of the above. But it was too late. Palm ignored where the market was going and they ended up falling way behind. Pocket PC 2000 was difficult to use. The devices were slow (except for the iPaq), expensive, big, and had poor battery life. But then technology moved forward. Pocket PC 2002 was better, and, more importantly, the hardware got smaller, faster, and better.

Palm OS now looks hopelessly dated. It's still more user-friendly than Windows Mobile, but it is now nothing but hacks on top of hacks. I carry a Treo 650 because it's an excellent device with some excellent software (Chatter Email in particular), but it crashes frequently (at least once per day) and doesn't multitask worth a crap. If there were a decent IMAP client for Windows Mobile, I wouldn't use Palm OS at all.

The moral of the story: don't assume that the device which controls 80% of the market will continue to do so in the long run. The iPod is an excellent device with excellent software - just like the Palm Vx. But it's foolish to tell your customers what they do or do not want.

Jobs is certainly afraid... of getting more money.

Let's see, creative labs tried it, Samsung tried it. Sony tried it. Every company has now made a MP3/digital media player. Guess what? The ipod is still number one. Hell the PSP screwed it up a lot. Why is Microsoft going beat them especially when they did "SO well" against the PS2? (Though I have to say the PS3 will lose ground just because of the product not the competition)

Simple fact is Jobs has no reason to be afraid, no one else has gotten close, microsoft might get the most marketshare out of the hacks, but I think that seeing their track record they won't.

There's four essential factors to market. Stylishness (if this wasn't a factor the Ipod wouldn't be the ipod), size of media is comparable, price for size is important but obviously not greatly (Ipod is still pretty hefty even with all the competitors) and finally ease of use. And seeing Microsoft's other products I'm guessing that's not going to be a huge win for them.

Jobs should worry a little bit, but not about Microsoft, and probably not about "Ipod killers" which have been coming for 2 years and apparently not a single one works. Worry 5 years from now when we get the zune 360.

I like the way he thinks...

By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left!

I think he's saying that us guys will finally get a taste of our own medicine: we'll finally learn how crappy it is when the girl gets up and leaves before WE'RE done.

You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.

Insert obligitory, "I put my earbud in your mom's ear!" joke here.

The difference between Jobs and Gates

So, basically he's saying that the MP3 player market will be divided between those who:

Make money
and
Have sex

Easily overcome, though

Instead of sending the whole song, just build streaming capability into the unit. If done properly, you could conceivably have an entire room of Zunes listening to your stream. Then just add the ability for the listener to download the (albeit crippled) song if they like it... I can see running out of radio spectrum pretty quick though :)

Flashback

I understand Mark Andressen was unfazed by Internet Explorer.

The night of the living player

ok, no stupid jokes about zunbies... but lets make some research.
First, who needs an earbud? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_ef fect [wikipedia.org] The zune already produces microwaves, they'd just have to add a little bit more power, and its done! So, how about sharing the song with the girl across the room? aim the antenna at her ear, and its donne. No players needed. And that will easily explain their DRM system. You wont be able to hear many more than three times the same (or any) song. No granny is gonna hear gangsta rap with the brain cooked. No earwax sharing involved. No epidemic spread caused by the lack of telefone (and earbuds) cleaners.
And that's what i would call a microsoft product.

The only people who have problems with licenses...

are IPOD users.

Everyone else seems fine and dandy. The only people who ever complain about getting music from one place to another: IPOD users. Ive owned MP3 players for years and have NEVER had a problem. Then again I stay MILES away from ITUNES and IPODs.

My MP3 player right now is my cel phone two things that belong in your ears. Phone cameras are pointless phone MP3 players..n.ow this is the future.

Yeah But...

One may still share the ear bud with the Zune, so what is Jobs' point? Use the the wireless for same-sex sharing, and if you're creepy and egomaniacal, stick the bud in some woman's ear?

Non-issue.

Said it before, will say it again: Both formats will be trounced immediately and handily by any start up that offers identical performance/form factor and no DRM.

The ZUNE is dead already, it's DRM to the max, nobody wants to touch it. I personally won't use iTunes for the same reason. Someone get me a wimax ipod, or better yet build it into my cell phone, and leave out the DRM, and I'm just one of MILLIONS of customers.

How are the real conservatives not all over this issue? Why am I the loud liberal canary on what is obviously a personal freedom / consumer rights / free market issue?

Just because the Neocons can't handle their way out of a wet paper bag doesn't mean real conservatives shouldn't still be throwing this stuff in everybody's face every five seconds. I wish they would, so I can get back to my environmentalism and anti-corporatism, where I feel more at home.

rhY

Re:a girl? 2 feet away??

Then again, the average Slashdotter probably doesn't own an iPod and/or Mac. So society is still protected from the basement dwellers. :P

Re:a girl? 2 feet away??

Wireless headphones, baby. You can stay in the living room with mom, while I'm in the basement.

Re:I find this quite funny

Agreed. Not to mention that I can pull the same earbud music sharing via the Zune, ipod, CD player, walkman... heck, get the girl in the car or near the car and just turn up the stereo -- not like me having a song is gonna impress a girl anyway!

nonetheless, if she does talk to me and does like the song regardless of how I initiate first contact -- with wireless I can actually ~give her the song and I think that's the gaping hole in Jobs rational...

As someone else posted, as soon as Apple releases wireless, Apple's tune will change...

Re:I find this quite funny

So I repeat the question: Does anybody really not think wireless will soon be a mandatory feature for all portable media players?

No, I don't think it will be a mandatory feature of all players.
If someone comes up with an implementation that doesn't suck, that's actually usefull, and that is not just a gee-whizz false promise of wireless wonders, then it will be quite popular, and then copied across the board, but this one sucks, so we'll keep making fun of them for making something that sucks, thank you very much.

Re:I find this quite funny

Does anybody really not think wireless will soon be a mandatory feature for all portable media players?

Well, yes, but functional wireless - MS screwed the pooch with the Zune, by not letting it show up directly on your WLAN as a CIFS share (possibly even with some device-side browsing ability so you can pull music down rather than needing to push it from your fileserver or a third machine), instead limiting it to the all-but-useless "share for three listens" feature.

Now, as for Steverino's comment - The Zune's wireless, useful or not, exists in addition to a headphone jack. Not "instead of" (I'd like to see how that would work ;-) ). So you can still share a bud with a bud, if so desired (or somewhat more hygienic - ick, sharing earbuds, how nasty - use a 2-way headphone splitter and jack in the second set at the same time).


But for the REALLY interesting question - I slammed both MS and Apple here... Will the fanboys' heads explode before they can mod this into obvlivion?

Re:I find this quite funny

While it will probably be the case that wireless capability will eventually be a standard feature on all portable devices, media or otherwise, right now I think it's more an issue of Apple holding back with it on the iPod until they can come up with a way to make wireless genuinely practical and useful on that platform, and not just a whiz-bang, ooh-aaah feature added to it for the sole purpose of trying to get people's attention. Apple will get there... eventually. One may argue that they are taking the smart road by watching Microsoft do wireless first to see if it is a feature that people will actually find useful on such a platform, and discover what works and what doesn't, before they eventually goes down that path as well. The future might say that Microsoft led the way in this regard but I don't doubt that it will also say that Apple did it better. Being first is sometimes not as important as being right.

Re:I find this quite funny

Does anybody really not think wireless will soon be a mandatory feature for all portable media players?

I really see no need for it. The only purpose for portable media players is to play media and the only reason I'd need wireless is to have wireless headphones. Wireless earbuds would get lost so easy, it wouldn't even be funny. I don't need to get my files wirelessly from my PC because I have to plug it in to charge the portable player anyway. The only point for wireless media players would be to trade media, and to be honest, I don't look to trade media while I'm using my media player. It might come in handy occationally when talking to freinds IRL and you both just happen to have your media players so you can share media you are talking about. I suspect that will be a fraction of the occurances of media sharing and that lackign wireless will result in less than .1% loss of functionability because 99.9% of the time people are using their media players, they're going to be playing media.

Personally, I think the only wireless feature that anybody will notice missing will be an AM/FM reciever. That is actually used for listening to media.

"Mandatory" wireless

Does anybody really not think wireless will soon be a mandatory feature for all portable media players?

Only if somebody comes up with an implementation of it that doesn't suck.

At the moment, Microsoft doesn't seem to be on-target to delivering that, because Zune's sharing pretty much exemplifies "suck." In some ways it's probably counter-productive, since giving people a crippled version of a feature in their first experience with it, may turn them off to its usefulness later, when it's done right. I think Zune wireless is going to be that kind of non-feature.

It will become mandatory, for all intents and purposes, when Apple puts it into the iPod. And then it will be 'mandatory' for those who want to seriously compete with the iPod, another thing that the Zune doesn't seem poised to do.

Re:Heck, do it proper

How do you define "dating age"? The only age group that consistently hasn't seen a "phonograph" in their life is below dating age. Perhaps you like em young (and apparently stupid too).