Jobs Unfazed by Zune

twofish writes "In an interview at Newsweek marking the approaching 5th anniversary of the launch of the iPod, Apple CEO Steve Jobs seems unconcerned by Microsoft's wannabe iPod killer Zune. Earphone sharing will prove a more potent force for social networking than the iPod rival's wireless song-sharing feature, he reckons. 'I've seen the demonstrations on the internet about how you can find another person using a Zune and give them a song they can play three times. It takes forever,' he says in the article. 'By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.'"

Incredible Speaker

It always amazes me how smoothly Jobs manages to deliver presentations, even when he's put on the spot. And without any of the dodging and doublespeak you expect from most company execs.

I know a lot of Slashdotters hate iTunes for "DRM", "not HD(TV) quality", "too expensive", or whatever other B.S. excuse they can come up with, but...

Q: No, but you've asked them not to raise their prices, when some of them wanted to.
A: Our core initial strategy on the store was that if you want to stop piracy, the way to stop it is by competing with it, by offering a better product at a fair price. In essence, we would make a deal with people. If they would pay a fair price, we would give them a better product and they would stop being pirates

...THIS is why I support iTunes. They know they have to be competitive in the market, so they are. They keep prices acceptable, even in face of stupid, greedy record companies. Jobs makes no bones about it, and he tells both the labels and the consumers the same thing. There are no "backroom deals" going on here, just a company trying to deliver the best product possible at a price the market can afford.

You won't find that sort of business done at Microsoft. Their strategy is:

1. Announce a competing product with limitless fanfare. Doesn't matter if it sucks.
2. Slowly improve it until the market finds it semi-acceptable.
3. Leverage the Windows monopoly to CRUSH the competition.

Didn't you hear? You can only use iPods with a Mac. With Zuma, you can be compatible with the millions of Microsoft Vista machines, out of the box! Plus, you know you're getting Microsoft Quality(TM) and Support(TM) when you purchase a Zuma. Those other digital music companies could fold tomorrow, leaving you with no music and no refund. Only Microsoft products can provide you with a guaranteed safety net! </standard-Microsoft-bull>

I've seen the demonstrations on the Internet about how you can find another person using a Zune and give them a song they can play three times. It takes forever. By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.

You know, he's got a point. It might seem very impressive in a geeky way to Zuma a file across the room to the pretty girl (if you don't mind that I just used "Zuma" as a verb), but she is definitely not going to be impressed unless she's also a geek. You've also got the matter of the song being played in a vacuum, where your own thoughts and feelings on the tune are missing. Thus it holds no meaning. Besides, pod-jacking [wikipedia.org] gives you a much better chance of being able to talk to that pretty girl. ;-)

Doublespeak he can't avoid...

Good comments, but Jobs does have his own bits of doublespeak. When he says that customers aren't asking for compatibility he's either defining his terms VERY carefully or he's in denial.

On the other hand he can't say "we can't adopt Microsoft's proprietary DRM instead of our own proprietary DRM because: (A) Microsoft will crush us, and (B) Microsoft's DRM is too effective for customers to put up with... the main reason we can get away with what we're doing in the iTunes Store is because everyone knows our DRM is little more than 'honor system'."

Though it would be refreshing to hear that/ He could go on with "You know, back before we introduced DRM I pointed out that DRM is basically impossible to make more than 'honor system' anyway, and our success really proves how right I was."

Re:Doublespeak he can't avoid...

He's right that, by and large, customers aren't asking for compatibility. Nerds on Slashdot are asking for compatibility. The millions upon millions of laymen who bought the lion's share of iPods barely even realize it's an issue.

Re:Doublespeak he can't avoid...

Because for them (and for me, honestly) it isn't something to "barely even realize" -- it really isn't an issue.

Re:Doublespeak he can't avoid...

On the other hand he can't say "we can't adopt Microsoft's proprietary DRM instead of our own proprietary DRM because: (A) Microsoft will crush us, and (B) Microsoft's DRM is too effective for customers to put up with... the main reason we can get away with what we're doing in the iTunes Store is because everyone knows our DRM is little more than 'honor system'."

Maybe it's actually (C) Microsoft fucked everybody over who went with their PlaysForSure DRM, but we saw it coming, and developed our own system (probably not the reason, but it would be perfectly valid).

I think Apple knows it's DRM is really a joke, but it's enough to appease the RIAA. Much as Jobs might want to throw that into the RIAAs face, I think he knows the RIAA would be too stupid to agree, and there's no way they'd let Apple strip the DRM from the iTunes store.

Re:Incredible Speaker

And you better believe Microsoft would weep with joy if people started using "Zune" as a verb.

The correct verb form of "Zune" is "squirt".

Usage:

I want to squirt you a picture of my kids. You want to squirt me back a video of your vacation.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/o ct2006/tc20061011_940241.htm

Peace be with you,
-jimbo

Re:Incredibly inappropriate:

I think you'll be asking for Cytheria more than Jenna.

Re:Incredibly inappropriate:

"I think you'll be asking for Cytheria more than Jenna."

I don't know what is more disturbing: that I knew what /exactly/ the parent referred to, or that enough people knew to mod it up to 5.

Re:Incredible Speaker

*Sigh* Another victim of the Reality Distortion Field (TM).

You know, he's got a point. It might seem very impressive in a geeky way to Zuma a file across the room to the pretty girl (if you don't mind that I just used "Zuma" as a verb), but she is definitely not going to be impressed unless she's also a geek. You've also got the matter of the song being played in a vacuum, where your own thoughts and feelings on the tune are missing. Thus it holds no meaning. Besides, pod-jacking gives you a much better chance of being able to talk to that pretty girl. ;-)

You know damned well that when (not if) iPod comes out with wireless, his tune on that will change in a hurry. Kind of like Intel was slow until Apple was using it.

Of course, he'll have an answer about how impersonal wireless was until Apple did it. And he'll be partly right. But for now, wireless is a Zuma advangage - right now, the guy can podjack (zumajack?) the pretty girl, then when she likes the song, he can Zuma it to her. That would be pretty cool. MS should let users associate a text message with the song, that would be better. Also, would be even cooler if it didn't disappear immediately, but whatever.

I like my iPod and my powerbook, but Steve's just a little *too* slick for me. It makes me not trust anything he says, whether he's right or wrong, simply because if you let yourself get caught up in his spin, you *will* believe whatever he says.

Re:Incredible Speaker

You're actually missing Steve's point. He's not saying wireless sharing of music isn't a useful feature, he's saying that it's too complicated to be useful right now. So yes, he'll change his tune but only after Apple finds a way to do it "right".

Re:Incredible Speaker

That's basically what Jobs has done all along. He's shown that he's never one to completely disregard in the future what doesn't work today. He's just a perfectionist and doesn't want to throw in the latest bells and whistles until he feels it is ready for your everyday user to consume. That's one thing that Microsoft doesn't get—they want the most features possible and so they end up releasing a lot of stuff, that while it sounds cool, often doesn't work as advertised until a couple of service packs later.

I also wanted to address a point from the grandparent, which your point actually addresses (albeit a little broadly):

You know damned well that when (not if) iPod comes out with wireless, his tune on that will change in a hurry. Kind of like Intel was slow until Apple was using it.

That's a bit of a misinformed statement. Intel was slow. PowerPC was kicking Intel ass up through the early G4's. Unfortunately, IBM didn't keep up with R&D for their consumer PowerPC chips to stay competitive with Intel. So, like a good businessman, Jobs did was right for the consumer and switched his product to use the more competitive parts.

I assure you that once Steve Jobs feels the time is right for things like iPod wireless, or iPhone, or whatever else "everyone" is clamoring for, he'll do it.

Re:Incredible Speaker

Zune's wireless sharing isn't a killer app. Jobs knows this. Ballmer should. From a technical standpoint all the ingredients are already in place in the Zune for this to be genuinely useful. Random wireless p2p sharing isn't really practical. Where the wireless sharing would be really useful would be having a base station in Starbucks, GAP, airports etc where you could download songs for free. The M$ DRM there makes more sense. But that would require a pull model instead of Microsofts push model.

You could still have a song of the day to allow people to try out new music. Record stores might like something like that. Instead of listening to headphones in a store you push a button which sends the song to any zunes within range (which accept it). You get 3 chances to decide if you like it and then buy the song. But, such usage is totally at odds with Microsofts marketing.

In fairness, Apple have made similar mistakes at times. Podcasting started and grew without them. They were very quick to tap into it though which comes back to your point about Jobs being a perfectionist who doesn't want to release something until it works perfectly. Incidentally the Zune sharing wouldn't fit too well with the iTS as it functions currently. It would however be perfect for the wide range of playsforsure stores.

Re:Incredible Speaker

[Jobs is] saying that it's too complicated to be useful right now

Give the man a prize. This was exactly Jobs' point. He didn't say anything to suggest that he's opposed to the idea of wireless transfers, just that the Zune sucks at it. If the iPod were to add this feature, it would probably require you to cross the room, stand next to the girl (again, giving you that chance to talk to her), and very simply and painlessly initiate the file transfer. Knowing Apple, you'd probably be able to broadcast your current playlist to nearby iPods, allows you to pod-jack without even pod-jacking. Which would be in support of existing market needs (something which Apple excels at) rather than trying to force a feature onto the market that no one is asking for.

Re:Incredible Speaker

It always amazes me that users who are running a Microsoft operating system with dozens of services and executables active applications - and even more services-like behavior concealed within services or system libraries - would object to iTunesHelper.

Re:Incredible Speaker

>Most people would never put someone's elses earbud into their own ear, I know I would never do so.

Dude, no wonder you don't get sex! It involves inserting.... naughty bits into other naughty bits.... And don't even get me started on foreplay.... and other forms of sexual entertainment... I am glad you are not averse putting your penis in your hand. ;-)

In other news ...

Teenage girls all over America issue restraining orders against Steve Jobs, related to his attempts to "share his earphones" with them.

Consider the Zune in that case

Teenage girls all over America issue restraining orders against Steve Jobs, related to his attempts to "share his earphones" with them.

Meanwhile teenage girls are buying handguns and taking the law into thier own hands after hearing Balmer is coming to "Squirt" them with his "Brown Zune".

Re:In other news ...

A stranger trying to shove his ear-waxy headphones into me is a total turn off, by the way. And who's to say they don't have a heroin-tipped needle in them or something worse (like AIDS).

What a scary world you live in!
I guess if headphones being inserted are a turn off, any other penetration is right off the menu.

Re:In other news ...

I guess if headphones being inserted are a turn off, any other penetration is right off the menu.

In my earholes, yes.

Re:In other news ...

AIDS transmission via earwax? Please get off the net, Senator Frist.

Re:In other news ...

AIDS transmission via earwax? Please get off the net, Senator Frist.

you do him an injustice. this is a serious form of the disease, called hearing AIDS.

(sorry)

The master has spoken...

'By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.'

Dating advice for using the iPod?! Let's see Bill Gates top that with the Zune!

Re:The master has spoken...

``Let's see Bill Gates top that with the Zune!''

Nah, I think I'd rather not watch that.

How Is This News?

Apple: Jobs Unfazed by Zune ... from the well-he-would-say-that dept.

How is this news?

Of course he's 'unfazed' by the Zune. He sits atop a company that currently has massive (and, more importantly, very loyal) fanbase in both computers and portable media players.

Microsoft is new to this market and I doubt jobs will be afraid of anybody (even Microsoft) in this market. Hell, I'll bet Jobs isn't even concerned about iRiver's or Sony's products even though they seem to have been in the market longer.

What was he supposed to do? Halt all production and support of iPods at the sight of the Zune and declare that he's beaten? Is he supposed to assume the fetal position and cower and cry when he hears the word 'Zune?' Retreat to the northern woods where he trains night and day so that one day he might come back and beat Microsoft in some other fashion?

I would be shocked if Jobs said anything otherwise. What's our next headline for Slashdot? Is it going to be "Steve Ballmer's Kids Love Zune"? What about "Jobs Says New Mac Models Are Good"? You gotta keep up those hard hitting headlines.

The questions in this article are laughable! Interviewer: "Jobs, I've pitched you so many softball questions but in an effort to pitch you another, how can the iPod lose its popularity with Dick Cheney and Queen Elizabeth owning one?" Jobs: "It can't, but let me attempt to be modest as you pop a woody for me." Interviewer: "I know you've only sold millions of iPods so let me attempt to further illustrate how great it is, will it always be about the music?" Jobs: "It's about whatever makes it sell the most."

Stop humping his leg!

I think the only way you could worry Jobs is if you made a media device that physically pleasures the user (with nods to Stanislaw Lem). Although Jobs could just fire back that the video playing iPod requires some effort but can meet the same needs.

Re:How Is This News?

How is this news?

I would be shocked if Jobs said anything otherwise. What's our next headline for Slashdot? Is it going to be "Steve Ballmer's Kids Love Zune"? What about "Jobs Says New Mac Models Are Good"? You gotta keep up those hard hitting headlines.

How is this news? Simple: By reading between the lines.

Every company delivers the same BS of, "We think our competitor provides no real challenge in the market." But if you actually listen to what they're saying, you can hear what they really think about it. Sort of like how Ballmer's denials of Google's importance always come across as, "I want to throw a f#@$ing CHAIR at those Google DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS!"

Add feature when they can make them work.

Apples Strength is that they tend to only add features that people really need and can use. Microsoft just takes whatever people complain about not having and shove it in there doesn't matter if it is really useful or not. Apple knows that people wants wireless access to their iPod but apple won't put it in there until they can find a way to make it right, so it is actually a benefit vs. an expensive feature that people won't use, more then just past the for 1/2 hour for the ohhs and ahhs.
Lets take a look at virtual screens. OS X is just releasing this as a new feature in its OS next year, Unix/Linux has had this feature for decades. Why now did apple finally release it. Well because there is enough CPU/GPU power to make it so people can understand it and not call and complain about there windows being missing. Or not seeing where they put what. It is about not releasing a feature until it can be made useful. Not just putting in a feature half hazardly jest because people who like buzzwords say they want it.

Re:Add feature when they can make them work.

Apples Strength is that they tend to only add features that people really need and can use. Microsoft just takes whatever people complain about not having and shove it in there doesn't matter if it is really useful or not. Apple knows that people wants wireless access to their iPod but apple won't put it in there until they can find a way to make it right, so it is actually a benefit vs. an expensive feature that people won't use, more then just past the for 1/2 hour for the ohhs and ahhs.
Lets take a look at virtual screens. OS X is just releasing this as a new feature in its OS next year, Unix/Linux has had this feature for decades. Why now did apple finally release it. Well because there is enough CPU/GPU power to make it so people can understand it and not call and complain about there windows being missing. Or not seeing where they put what. It is about not releasing a feature until it can be made useful. Not just putting in a feature half hazardly jest because people who like buzzwords say they want it.

I like your points. It brings to mind two students that have to write a term paper that has to be 50 pages. One student fills it with crap and changes the font size and spacing until it reaches that 50 pages, thereby fullfilling the minimum. The other student ignores the 50 page requirement and just researches the subject and writes until the paper makes sense. The teacher with any brains (or interest in the subject matter) is going to grade the second student higher. Not all teachers have any brains. Big corporations and especially governments won't take anything other than 50 pages and won't really read it anyway.

Apple did its homework with the iPod and worked hard for that A. Microsoft glanced over to copy as much as it could, slapped something together, put a pretty font on it, slapped some stickers on it and put it in a nice brown binder. Microsoft gets the C.

gross!

what person in their right mind would stick and earbud from some hard-legged dude in their ear? that is just gross

Keep looking

If you need a novel way to pick up girls then neither the iPod, nor the Zune will do that for you, sorry, keep looking.

The sky is falling!

Wait, what? Steve Jobs is talking about _girls_? And he works at _Apple_? /me ducks

Unfazed?

Really? I would have thought he would praise them for their innovation and talk about what Apple is doing to catch up with Microsoft, a company renowned for being 'in touch' and 'with it', now that five years after the release of the ipod, they finally have something that even comes close.

Huh?

You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear.

Why not just keep both earbuds where they are, enjoy the music, and still stick it in her ear? Or am I misunderstanding something here...?

Re:Huh?

I think you're missing an R near the end of your first sentence. That's okay, though, as the sentence parses correctly when spoken aloud.

Apple being unfazed

Wasn't there a time when Apple was unfazed by IBM-PCs? :>