Inside View on Apple WWDC Rumors

AppleLurker writes "In a recent interview with DVD newsroom an Apple employee talks WWDC rumors including the iPhone, Blu-ray, MacPro and the Apple Tablet. More realistic about what not to expect next week when Steve Jobs hits the stage." Apple's next move is always a hotbed of debate leading up to a product release and with all the rumors flying this year all bets are off until we see the checkered flag, so take with the requisite grain of salt.

Lots of new system software?

[by Anonymous Coward]

I'm an attendee and have noticed that the online schedule of sessions still has about 40% of the slots with "To Be Announced" as their descriptions. In the past Apple has done this when new technologies are to be announced; the session titles are filled in after the keynote is over.

So perhaps there's going to be quite a bit of new software this time.

Re:Lots of new system software?

[Gary W. Longsine (124661)]

Loepoard has had the longest development cycle of any Mac OS X release since 1.0. I'd guess there will be some interesting new capabilities coming, along with API so that developers can use them, too. Past examples of new API announced at WWDC and slotted into previously blank sessions include CoreData, CoreImage, CoreVideo, and WebKit. I see there are only two scheduled sessions and one Feedback Forum regarding WebObjects. Perhaps some of the unannounced sessions will bring good news for this product.

Re:Lots of new system software?

[monoqlith (610041)]

I hope so. WebObjects is a great product that I don't feel is being marketed as well as it could be. I tried to get into it earlier this summer, but the documentation is sparse and there is no gold-standard beginner's book on the market(the most highly recommended one went out of print - is that the sign of a dying technology?).

  WebObjects would be very competitive placed head to head with Atlas and ASP.net, especially with a more refined Linux/BSD deployment support. Right now deploying to Linux is a bit difficult. I just wish Apple would get on that more aggressively.

Thread farming?

[PapayaSF (721268)]

Back in April, the semi-reliable (rumor-wise and server-wise) Mac OS Rumors [macosrumors.com] claimed that Leopard would have some pretty cool "thread farming" technology. I'll quote the whole page because their server is often down:

A critical component of not only Mac OS X 10.5 "Leopard," but also the Cocoa/Carbon for Windows package (more details in linked article above) will be new code co-developed with Intel that helps break up tasks into multiple threads -- therefore achieving considerably better efficiency on the next generation of multi-core Intel processors. The results we've seen on systems with up to 16 cores of Intel's next-generation "Conroe" desktop CPU architecture were amazing....with 10.4.6 as-is, the first core bears the vast majority of the workload particularly when only one or two resource-intensive apps are running.

Even when lots of different applications, many of them efficiently multi-threaded, are run on 10.4.5 or 10.4.6 only the first two CPUs are used efficiently while the third and fourth are getting plenty of work....but aren't quite living up to their full potential. Each added core after four seems to drop off in efficiency....not because OS X doesn't handle lots of processors properly, it does. In fact it's an industry leader in terms of being ready for the next generation of multicore, multiprocessor technology. It has been since day one and Apple has consistently kept it at the leading edge since then.

The problem is, simply, getting all of those core to have the maximum possible positive effect on the performance of each application. When simulating the realistic workloads of almost every kind of user, more than four cores rapidly lost any effect because there just weren't enough threads, efficiently enough balanced, to make good use of more CPU's.

Leopard changes this in every way that Apple and Intel have been able to devise. The techniques employed include tricks that both companies have been holding at ready for years, and some new things that have been developed in the past year or so to specifically address the way the "Core" (Yonah, Merom and Napa-Merom) and Codename 'Conroe' architectures work. Most of it goes beyond our technical competency; we're sure that the folks at Ars Technica will have a lot to say about this in the next few months as more details leak about the hardware and software involved in these enhancements.

Some, but certainly not all, of these techniques will eventually make their way into Intel's optimized in-house compilers. Some will even become part of the GCC compilers that are critical to building OS X and indeed most Xcode applications, eventually. But right now they are by and large highly experimental, being part of an operating system codebase that is not even quite "alpha" in terms of usability.

That said, it's a thing of beauty to see 16 cores used with bizarrely perfect symmetry even when performing relatively simple tasks that have nearly no application-level threading in their collective codebases. 32 cores work nearly as well, and somehow manage to make tasks that would normally only max out one or two cores and be unable to go beyond that point, spread out across nearly all the CPU's with a beautiful cascade effect created for just such a demonstration in the Leopard version of Activity Monitor (just wait until you see all the 3D OpenGL visualizations that have been whippped up....but that's another article entirely and bordering on embargoed territory to boot!).

Re:Lots of new system software?

[buckhead_buddy (186384)]

Gary W. Longsine wrote:

Leopoard has had the longest development cycle of any Mac OS X release since 1.0.

That's not quite true: Tiger was longer (so far). Here's a list of Mac OS X releases following 10.0 (released March 24, 2001):

1. Puma -- Sep 29, 2001 ~6.3 months gestation
2. Jaguar -- Aug 24, 2002 ~10.9 months gestation
3. Panther -- Oct 24, 2003 ~14.2 months gestation
4. Tiger -- Apr 29, 2005 ~ 18.4 months gestation

Leopard has been incubating for a bit over 15 months from Tiger's release. If it takes the same amount of time as Tiger to release we'll see it go live at the start of November. If it follows the other trend of "prior release + 4 months" we'll see it go live at the start of March 2007. Both of these would fit in with the prediction that Steve made at the last WWDC that we'll see it at the end of 2006 or the start of 2007 "about the time Longhorn is released".

No matter what technology is in the pipeline, the release date is more likely to be determined by when Apple wants to go head to head with the Microsoft PR machine. Apple hasn't made any public technology promises (other than a final version of Boot Camp) so it can delay any project that isn't quite ready until 10.6. If Apple wants to look like an "innovator" and come in "first" with what everyone will think of as the next generation successor to Windows 98, then it may aim for November. If it wants to ride the Microsoft PR wave (rather than appear overwhelmed by it) then it may wait until the same time or just after Windows Vista is declared by some as a steaming pile of poo.

Setting any release date is risky, but I think Leopard's will have less to do with technology and everything to do with what date Apple thinks is the best day to take on Goliath.

Re:Lots of new system software?

[by Anonymous Coward]

If you are an attendee, you should organize your schedule at http://www.apple.com/wwdc [apple.com]. After entering your ADC user and password you will see all the available sessions. The page you mention has probably not been updated since WWDC was announced earlier this year. Oh, and before you rush to the site, let me tell you that you wont find any clues as to what will be announced on Monday by taking a look at the name of the sessions :-)

Windows Vista?

[abscissa (136568)]

Maybe if they announce Windows Vista at the WWDC it might actually materialise?

Re:Windows Vista Nouveau 2004^h5^h6^h7...

[Gary W. Longsine (124661)]

The NeXT Version of Windows(TM) has been announced at WWDC several times in history. Most recently, Longhorn was announced at WWDC 2005. The result in that instance was a name change and schedule slip.

That means that the keynote would be

[eclectro (227083)]

Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all.

Bets with salt

[archeopterix (594938)]

"...all bets are off until we see the checkered flag, so take with the requisite grain of salt."

I think that the author should take the bull by the hand and avoid mixing metaphors.

Re:Bets with salt

[double-oh three (688874)]

About TFA (Tying into the grammar thread of the parent), is it just me or is the interviewee a robot?

Let us observe:
Q. When will a Mac ship with a Blu-ray drive installed?
A. Some are hopeful with Oct/Nov. Doubt it. 100% Blu-ray will be built-to-order in January 07.

Q. Any changes to the iMac?

A. Externally, the iMac is a homerun. No.

Q. What Apple products will ship with the Intel Core 2 Duo chips?

A. Only Intel and Steve know.

Q. Any cool features expected in Leopard?

A. General unification. Good-bye brushed metal. Mail and iCal integration. Stronger Front Row features. And as I said, more iChat.

This person sounds a bit too... canned, short. Sentences. To be. Real.

Re:Bets with salt

[DarrylM (170047)]

This person sounds a bit too... canned, short. Sentences. To be. Real.

When did William Shatner become an Apple spokesperson?

:-)

Re:Bets with salt

[bar-agent (698856)]

"If we can hit that bulls-eye then all the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...checkmate!"

Worst rumor site ever

[The One and Only (691315)]

If you haven't bothered reading TFA, don't. It's sub-Mac-rumor-site rumors, complete with a (probably fictitious) phone conversation and cheesy backstory.

Why do people watch Apple with bated breath?

[PurifyYourMind (776223)]

It's interesting to see the hype and everyone excited about upcoming products lately. For Microsoft, I think it's because they're a de facto "standard" in the desktop and office products spaces. For Apple, it is more like they are known for coming out with very sexy, sleek products that are also easy to use. Too bad some of the free and open source projects don't benefit from this kind of free publicity. I guess you could almost count Firefox as being among the hype machines, but I would bet most of that is user-generated -- people who are fans of Firefox -- as opposed to pundits, industry people, etc.

Re:Why do people watch Apple with bated breath?

[Overly Critical Guy (663429)]

1.) Apple is typically ahead of that "de facto standard" and tends to introduce features that end up in Microsoft's products (Vista is rife with Apple-isms, even down to the search field in the upper-right corner of Explorer windows, complete with a magnifying glass icon--straight out of OS X).

2.) Apple actually ships its products, so it's exciting to get to see what cool new stuff you'll be able to get your hands on soon and not just read about for another 12 months like Vista.

Re:Why do people watch Apple with bated breath?

[localman (111171)]

Actually, in my case it's because my girlfriend (well, wife) watches Apple with bated breath. I wish she paid attention to me like she does Steve Jobs!

Cheers ;)

Working from current news and events

[HaloZero (610207)]

Let's assume the following givens:

• Introduction of the Core 2 Duo to the iNtel Mac lineup;
  • Conroe will be featured in the iMac and the new PowerMac; Quad capability may or may not be present...
  • Merom will be featured in the MacMini, the MacBook, and the MacBook Pro [evidence of meromac [mac.com]]
  • Woodcrest MAY be present in the next revision of the XServe and XServe RAID
• Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
  • Point releases are traditionally announced at WWDC.
  • Point releases usually accompany upgrades.
  • Conroe, Merom, and Woodcrest bring x86_64 (EM64T) support, 10.5 should take advantage of it fully.
• A bigger shift to the iMac line.
• A shift to the iPod nano line (they've been killing off stock by giving the freaking things away with new Mac purchases).
• Something less useless than the iPod Hi-Fi.

Everything else is gravy. Don't count on an iPhone, Apple's not ready for that market. I think Motorola may be on hand to announce a sister to the ROKR and SLVR, something akin to the RAZR with a better capacity. And it will synch with iTunes via Bluetooth. We may also see a Bluetooth-enabled iPod. Stock TV Tuner support for the Mac Mini would also be expected, as would SLi/Crossfire for the MacPro.

Re:Working from current news and events

[ArbitraryConstant (763964)]

Conroe will be featured in the iMac and the new PowerMac; Quad capability may or may not be present...

I don't think it's safe to assume Conroe in PowerMacs/Mac Pros. I think it's much more likely they will use an all-Xeon lineup, using Woodcrest (the Xeon version of Core 2). I think this because I don't think they have any interest in inexpensive towers, and using Xeon chips is one of the things they'll have to do to justify towers starting at $2000.

Conroe, Merom, and Woodcrest bring x86_64 (EM64T) support, 10.5 should take advantage of it fully.

64-bit support on x86 is a lot harder than on PowerPC. PowerPC allows the kernel to remain 32-bit even with 64-bit applications, while x86 does not. They'll essentially be porting the kernel to another architechture, and as a result drivers will be broken etc. Also, they'll have to provide a translation layer for the kernel to continue to run 32-bit applications, which isn't trivial either. They have also yet to provide support for 64-bit GUI applications, which is necessary for things like Photoshop to get useful 64-bit support (a 64-bit worker process doesn't cut it for things like Photoshop, they stuff to run in the same address space).

Basically, it isn't possible for them to have a production-ready x86-64 OS without a significant period spent in beta to debug the new kernel and application support, and to allow hardware vendors to update their drivers. This would, by necessity, be too large to keep secret.

It is entirely possible that they will announce 64-bit support, and they might even pretend it's production ready, but there is very little chance of this being true. My guess is a 64-bit interim release some time after 10.5 has been released, like they did with 10.2 when G5s were released.

Re:Working from current news and events

[FuturePastNow (836765)]

Also, Conroe won't go in the iMac for power and thermal reasons. Merom is a drop-in replacement for Yonah, and the iMac has a socketed motherboard.

The larger issue is with you, me, the grandparent, the article, and the retards who populate every Mac forum (MacRumors, I'm looking at you). We are all just making shit up. None of us knows what Apple's upcoming products are, and while "current news and events" can provide clues, Apple likes its surprises. I have a friend who works at Apple, and he can't tell me anything, because he only knows about his specific project. It's a very compartmentalized company, and anyone claiming to have the "inside scoop" is full of it.

Sorry about the rant. Back to making shit up...

Re:Working from current news and events

[FuturePastNow (836765)]

Sorry, but you're wrong [arstechnica.com] about that. It's in a socket, and there's nothing to prevent user upgrades except the general difficulty level involved in taking the thing apart. Saving on manufacturing and development costs is exactly the reason why.

Correction

[blamanj (253811)]

In a recent interview with DVD newsroom an ex-Apple employee talks WWDC rumors.

Elevator Photos

[Kenshin (43036)]

I'm still waiting for "elevator photos". The keynote hype is not complete until then.

(Anyone who follows these things will know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.)

Re:Paging Strunk and White

[Golias (176380)]

Meanwhile, it's full speed ahead for mixed metaphors!

Hey now, there's no need to be a wet blanket just because you're not ready to drink the Kool-ade. Some people are really revved up about the curtain being drawn back next week. I, for one, am on pins and needles while I'm holding my breath for the big fireworks.

Re:Hoping for the iPod video update

[Reaperducer (871695)]

I'd like to transfer them to the video iPod

Try plugging your iPod into your USB port. It happens automagically.

watch it during a rail-commute

Place your iPod in your hand. Get on trin. Sit. Turn on iPod. Select show. Watch.

or plug it into a friends tv for playback.

Attach small end of video cable to headphone jack. Attach other end to friend's TV. Set iPod TV output option to "on." Select video. Press play.

Either you're the dumbest electronics customer in history, or you don't have an iPod and you're just trolling.