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Hardware Hacking Businesses Apple

New iMac disassembled 277

Posted by Hemos from the rip-it-to-shreds dept.
wild_berry writes "Found, via Ars Technica's Apple journal, Infinite Loop, a Japanese site disassembling Intel Core Duo iMac. Clint, from the Ars blog, points out that the Core Duo processor is socket-mounted, allowing for possible upgrades, unlike the IBM chips which were soldered to the PCB's. Please use the - cached pages."
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New iMac disassembled More

New iMac disassembled

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  • Noise? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by antifoidulus ( 807088 ) on Monday January 16, 2006 @09:59AM (#14481722) Homepage Journal
    From the blog: "There are no less than 3 blowers inside the machine" I wonder if the machine is quiet(can anyone comment from firsthand experience?) Some of the Rev. A iMac G5s sounded like a jet taking off, but it appears they fixed it in later revs. I want to get one of these bad boys, but only if they are silent.
    • The G5 iMacs have also supposedly suffered from a rash of "bulging capacitor" and heat-related problems [macintouch.com]. The anecdotal stuff I've heard runs from thinking it's simple heat management to talk about power surges and so on... Kind of disturbing.

      If we have to choose between quiet and cool -- and I'd rather not, but this design has a history -- I'll lean toward the machine that doesn't croak six months after I buy it. Better still, waiting six or nine months on this model in its new incarnation seems wise.

      (O

    • I wonder why Apple doesn't care more about noise, surely a lack of noise must fit in well with the rest of their expensive/stylish marketing strategy?

      A shiny white box that screams like a jet doesn't impress anyone.

      • Re:Noise? (Score:3, Informative)

        by aonaran ( 15651 )
        Generally Apple machines, like Dell machines have more and bigger fans than necessary so they can turn them more sowly and produce LESS noise than a standard PC.

    • Re:Noise? (Score:5, Informative)

      by baryon351 ( 626717 ) on Monday January 16, 2006 @10:39AM (#14482032)
      People seem to have the impression that these Intel machines have been designed haphazardly, and the lack of aesthetics inside have made for many comments online that the insides must have been designed by Intel themselves to look so different to the G5s. A friend of mine has put together a picture of various models [danamania.com] to show that they are almost identical inside to the previous model G5 iMacs. It's those G5 iMacs with iSights that introduced the messier interior, not the Intel ones.

      Just so people know.
      • Looks as if they are cutting costs. The early versions look much more refined and "professional". Hopefully it doesn't mean other corners will soon be cut.

        • Re:Noise? (Score:3, Interesting)

          by John Whitley ( 6067 )
          Looks as if they are cutting costs. The early versions look much more refined and "professional".

          The interior design and layout of a computer mainboard is not driven by superficial aesthetics, but by a host of pragmatic issues. These issues include airflow and heat dissipation management, crosstalk issues between various components and/or traces on the board (ever had a laptop where you could hear the hard drive in the audio out?), placement of offboard connectors, access for upgrades, and so forth. Hardw

      • Re:Noise? (Score:4, Informative)

        by NutscrapeSucks ( 446616 ) on Monday January 16, 2006 @12:05PM (#14482796)
        The big difference is that the original G5 iMacs were designed to be user-serviceable. The iSight models (G5 or Intel) are not -- nobody's supposed to be looking in there except Apple techs.

        (Now why you aren't supposed to be able to upgrade RAM or disk in 2006 is another question.)

        • Re:Noise? (Score:3, Informative)

          by baryon351 ( 626717 )
          RAM is still upgradable. Look down the bottom of the 4 rightmost images, and you can see latches/pull catches that unfold so the RAM slots are accessible from the outside, through a small hole in the case.

          Doesn't explain the non-user upgradeable disk - though non-user upgradeable only means "officially".
          • hmm is it like with the ibook where non user upgradeable means user upgradeable if you have a lot of time, a lot of tiny screwdrivers and a very steady hand?

            what i don't get is why apple make life so hard for thier own techs.

    • Re:Noise? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by hey! ( 33014 ) on Monday January 16, 2006 @10:54AM (#14482158) Homepage Journal
      I dunno whether more fans translate to more noise, it might be in fact the opposite.

      I'd rather have several strategically placed fans, running at low RPM and generating very little turbulence, than having single fan sized to move enough air that everything that needs it gets enough airflow, even it a tangle of ribbon cables stand in the way.

      • Re:Noise? (Score:5, Informative)

        by tigersha ( 151319 ) on Monday January 16, 2006 @10:59AM (#14482196) Homepage
        Bingo. You just nailed the thermal management system of the Powermac right on the head. The thing has 10 (ten) fans but is quiet as heck because the machine is split up in thermal zones and each fan only runs when necessary.

        Instead of the PC horror of one fan that has to suck out a large volume the whole time and runs at full blast no matter what.

        • Re:Noise? (Score:2, Interesting)

          by EntropyEngine ( 890880 )
          You have to admit that it's easy to see why people think that lots of fans means more noise.

          About the only time I hear anything from my dual G5 is when an application falls over and tries taking all of the CPU time with it.

          I get a brief whoosh of sound and then the errant application is killed...

        • Re:Noise? (Score:3, Informative)

          by MojoStan ( 776183 )
          Instead of the PC horror of one fan that has to suck out a large volume the whole time and runs at full blast no matter what.

          As others have pointed out, this is incorrect and sounds suspiciously like FUD. Intel chipsets have had temperature-controlled fans [intel.com] since at least the 845 chipset [intel.com], which was released in 2001 [anandtech.com]. From that link to Intel's site:

          With Intel® Precision Cooling Technology, your system fans will automatically adjust their speeds according to the internal chassis temperature. If your sy

      • Re:Noise? (Score:5, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 16, 2006 @11:27AM (#14482435)
        I dunno whether more fans translate to more noise

        In my experience, apple fans are very noisy, especially on slashdot.

    • I HAVE ONE. SILENT! (Score:5, Informative)

      by Eric_Cartman_South_P ( 594330 ) on Monday January 16, 2006 @11:12AM (#14482321)
      I just got a 20 inch Dual Core iMac yesterday. Screen is a monster. The mac, for everything except games (cal of duty, battlefield, etc) is DEAD QUIET. I can't hear ANYTHING. I love it.

      \ Dual Core 2 ghz iMac is do damn fast it's not funny. Editing home movies while 10 apps run in background is nothing short of a delight. I'll exit fanboy mode now, but if you are thinking of Dual Core, go for it.

      • I don't have any mod points, but someone mod the parent up since it's the only one in this thread that has actual data.
      • but if you are thinking of Dual Core, go for it.

        As soon as I find an article telling me how to get Windows running on one, I'll be buying one to dual boot. ;-)

        As it is now, the only thing I use a PC for is Visual Studio (job requirement) and WoW (addiction). So it's got to be Windows at least 50% of the time.

    • Re:Noise? (Score:5, Informative)

      by daveschroeder ( 516195 ) * on Monday January 16, 2006 @11:31AM (#14482464)
      First, the few G5 iMacs that sounded like a "jet taking off" were iMacs with specific, acknowledged motherboard problems that resulted in their fans ramping up to full speed. This was fixed on-demand in any iMac with that issue, and it was indeed addressed completely in later revisions. This issue never affected more than a small percentage of machines.

      Further, Apple's design is to use *more* fans such that they don't need to be running at full speed (you did know that those are all variable speed blowers, right?). For example, the G5 towers that use 9 fans. None of them are running at too high a speed, keeping the entire machine quiet. Aside from a few models of machines with more audible airflow, Apple's goal is to have machines that run very quietly and are audibly unobtrusive.

      I don't think you'll be disappointed.

  • Clint, from the Ars blog, points out that the Core Duo processor is socket-mounted, allowing for possible upgrades, unlike the IBM chips which were soldered to the PCB's.

    I's possible to upgrade a soldered chip...just takes a soldering iron, a little skill, and a lot of paitence.

    (A commercial-grade desoldering tool is also useful.)

    • Re:Arts and Crafts time (Score:3, Interesting)

      by dc29A ( 636871 )
      I's possible to upgrade a soldered chip...just takes a soldering iron, a little skill, and a lot of paitence.

      (A commercial-grade desoldering tool is also useful.)

      I haven't upgraded a CPU for like ... ever. IMO ugprading is not worth it. Usually when I upgrade it's more than CPU only, I need new type of RAM, new stuff like USB 2.0. And at the end, new mobo + CPU = better choice than simply a bit faster CPU that would run in the old machine.

      My good ole' 486 wasn't worth upgrading with Pentium Overdrive, my A
      • Yeah, but you didn't spend 2 grand on any of those machines. Well maybe the 486 back when PCs were still expensive...
        • Good point. Plus with an Apple product it's not as easy as ordering a new motherboard, processor, and RAM and then sticking it in the old case. I've got a PC100 memory Wintel machine that I could get a new processor, mobo, and RAM for the price of changing out my 128 simms for 256. But I've found upgrading processors on G4 towers to be a good way of squeezing a bit more good out of my initial investment. At work (they were PC only so I brought in my own Mac) I have an old 433 mhz digital audio mac that

      • I haven't upgraded a CPU for like ... ever. IMO ugprading is not worth it. Usually when I upgrade it's more than CPU only, I need new type of RAM, new stuff like USB 2.0. And at the end, new mobo + CPU = better choice than simply a bit faster CPU that would run in the old machine.

        But then you've got an old mobo + CPU + RAM just begging to be thrown inside of an old chassis and hooked up to an old HD... and then you notice that for hardly any dollars, your old, secondary machine can have a faster processor.

    • To the original point of the article: You're staring down the barrel of a revolver half loaded, half not when it comes to upgrading CPUs these days. Sockets are flying by so quickly that you might only see two different cores and only 3-6 speed grades for each core (Banias->Dothon->new socket).

      To me, computers are so damned fast now if you actually *need* to upgrade, you probably need to just get a new computer. Everything about these new Macs breathes cutting edge, from the new PC slot on the MacB
    • I's possible to upgrade a soldered chip...just takes a soldering iron, a little skill, and a lot of paitence. (A commercial-grade desoldering tool is also useful.)

      No, you can't desolder [lsilogic.com] an BPGA chip, without desoldering all other components on the same PCB. Forget the idea.

      It'd be 1/100 of the cost to simply buy a new pc...


      • No, you can't desolder an BPGA chip, without desoldering all other components on the same PCB. Forget the idea.

        Funny...I've done it (granted it was a 386 back in the day, but it's certainly possible).

        It'd be 1/100 of the cost to simply buy a new pc...

        I merely claimed it was possible. I mentioned nothing about it being cost-effective...
        • AFAIK, 386 chips seldomly where BPGA. They had lines connecting along the lines of the chip, which is a big difference. A modern P4 has 776 pins, in 4x4cm, or 16cm^2. Thats far more dense than a 386 either was. And how was you gonna heat the points (which is under a neat layer of delicate electronics)? Especially when resoldering the new one? Infrared oven?

        • The 80386 was never a BPGA footprint. It was a regular 0.100" PGA, which no, is not impossible but still unbelievably difficult on a multilayer board where you have heavy copper pour for the ground and power planes.

          Fast-forward to today, where the pin spacing has shrunk to sub-millimeter pitch and the number of pins has jumped by a factor of 7x. I have personally desoldered 0.5mm pitch TQFP devices and hand-soldered the same and it's not difficult with "prosumer" equipment (Weller iron with a superfine

    • Re:Arts and Crafts time (Score:3, Informative)

      by tzanger ( 1575 )

      I's possible to upgrade a soldered chip...just takes a soldering iron, a little skill, and a lot of paitence.

      As someone who does this as part of his job -- you're full of shit. I would love to see you desolder a 900-and-some-odd pin chip (or are these uBGA?) without causing damage to the board, even with professional equipment. It's simply not worth the time or energy. If this thing is an actual pinned chip it's even more difficult than with a uBGA. And let's not forget the x-ray equipment required

    • Re:Arts and Crafts time (Score:4, Funny)

      by dohcvtec ( 461026 ) on Monday January 16, 2006 @12:55PM (#14483250)
      "I's possible to upgrade a soldered chip...just takes a soldering iron, a little skill, and a lot of paitence." - TripMaster Monkey

      "Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." - Stephen Wright

  • No Disassemble (Score:4, Funny)

    by troc ( 3606 ) <troc@@@mac...com> on Monday January 16, 2006 @10:05AM (#14481780) Homepage Journal
    No Disassemble iMac (5)

    or something

    T.

  • Anyone have caches of the cached pages??

    http://religiousfreaks.com/ [religiousfreaks.com]

  • Nerd porn! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Psykechan ( 255694 ) on Monday January 16, 2006 @10:10AM (#14481822)
    Hooray! We have now entered the nerd porn phase of the Apple Product Cycle [misterbg.org].

    Sigh... if only the cached site wasn't so slow.

  • socketed chips (Score:5, Informative)

    by gEvil (beta) ( 945888 ) on Monday January 16, 2006 @10:12AM (#14481837)
    Something to remember about the last few batches of socketed processors in Macs (G3s and G4s): the FSB, voltages, and processor frequency settings were controlled via a series of unlabeled jumpers on the motherboard, which had a prefabbed jumper block taped onto them (warranty void if removed blah blah blah). I'm sure if they're using a similar mechanism that it will only be a matter of time before someone figures out the jumper scheme and posts them. Then again, maybe EFI handles all of this now. Anybody familiar enough with EFI to know?
    • Speaking of EFI, linux supports it. I've heard lot of noise about windows support, but what about linux support, will linux (and BSDs) be able to run on those things? I'm not buying a machine that can't run open operative systems...

  • Easy disassembly = cool (Score:5, Insightful)

    by standards ( 461431 ) on Monday January 16, 2006 @10:18AM (#14481887)
    In a way, the new iMac is like a laptop - you can pull it apart and replace components, but it isn't as if it was designed for home user disassembly (like an ATX beige box.)

    On the flip side, there are Mac designs like the eMac, which require significant disassembly [blogspot.com] to upgrade the drives. And to upgrade the CPU, your only real choice is to overclock with your soldering iron. And you have to deal with the high voltage CRT.

    I always liked internal Mac design, but older Macs, although somewhat elegant on the inside, were very difficult to upgrade. Sometimes you open up an old Mac and you go "woah, it is shocking that they made it so fancy on the inside of this computer". No wonder they sold the translucent iMacs. But that pretty inside was designed for ease of factory assembly, not for ease of upgrades.
    • The easiest way to deal with the high voltage CRT is to just leave it unplugged for a couple of days. I work with litterally hundreds of CRTs a day and two days is more than enough time for any dangerous shock potential to dissipate fromt he capacitors.

      That is assuming of course you can go without the system for two days. You could always do it in less and just be careful.
      • Our monitor guy at work does something w/ that suction cup looking thingy & a screwdriver to dissipate excess zap juice. Dunno what it is, or why it works, but allows him to work on monitors w/o waiting.

        • That "suction cup thingy" is a cover for one side of the high voltage transformer. If the caps on the other side of the transformer are still retaining a charge, grounding it for a moment will do the trick and render the unit safer to work on.

          The tech is probably doing what I used to do; Take the clip end of a resistive antistatic strap, clip it to a screwdriver. Slip cuff side tight over grounded metal workbench. With fingers well away from the blade of the screwdriver, slip it under the cup till you hear
    • Agreed about the lovely internal designs. The inside of my Powermac G5 is truly a thing of Beauty - everything is easily accesible - there's plenty of room inside - it makes a huge change from old piece-assembled PC boxen that are so choked up with cables you can bareely reach anything.
    • I haven't check out the picks yet, but it looks like its designed like he first run G5 iMacs, where the entire thing is full of user installable parts. Three turns of a screwdriver, and you have easy access to every part in the thing.

      Beats getting to any laptop I've ever had to work on
      • AFAIK, these iMacs are sealed like the iSight G5 iMacs. We tried to open one, but all that's there is a slot for the memory. If you want to get to the real insides, fine, but the thing's not going back together.
    • Hah, you haven't seen an iBook then. Other then the battery and RAM, you apparently need to rip the whole thing apart to change anything else like a hardrive.

  • Diagnostic Lights? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by NardofDoom ( 821951 ) on Monday January 16, 2006 @10:38AM (#14482026)
    The original iMac G5 had a series of diagnostic lights inside that showed possible problems. Does this one have that?

  • Inner beauty (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Winterblink ( 575267 ) on Monday January 16, 2006 @10:41AM (#14482049) Homepage
    Anyone got a side-by-side comparison between this and the G5 iMac innards? This new one's definitely lacking in the interior design department. I mean I know it's basically a PC now, but...

    Anyway, maybe it's a nitpicky point, but just something that occurred to me when I saw the pictures.
  • The words "Intel Dual Core" tell me it's probably a Pentium D of some sort. But, is it just a commercial chip or are the chips made specially for Apple with additional doodads? How fast is it?

  • Ars, are you looking? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by numbski ( 515011 ) * <numbski.hksilver@net> on Monday January 16, 2006 @10:51AM (#14482133) Homepage Journal
    If you are, could you check something for me?

    Will these things come up in target disk mode? Can you boot from a firewire device?

    People seem to mod me down for this, but it is critically important to me to know whether or not I can still do ye olde CCC, keep a dmg around, and restore as needed. :\

  • Intel Motherboard (Score:2, Informative)

    by texspeed ( 726961 )
    If, as has been reported, the new Intel-based Macs are based on an Intel motherboard, it is not too surprising that the processor would be placed in a socket. However, the initial post is at least partly incorrect in that many prior Macintosh systems had socketed processors, hence the existence of an upgrade market, maybe just not the recent iMacs.
  • I would dearly love a mac. And w/ the Intel ones coming out, the powerpc macs are heavily discounted. But I don't want a mac if the software for it is going to disappear within the next 3 years. Anyone have a feeling on what the lifespan of powerpc macs is now? Even a brand new G5?

  • Looks a real mutha to clean (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ettlz ( 639203 ) on Monday January 16, 2006 @11:15AM (#14482346) Journal
    That looks like some disassembly is required to clean dust from the heatsink and fan. Even my notebook only needs one panel removed and I can blow it out; I do wish designers would pay more attention to this. Dust settles — even in Macs.

  • Faked? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by pvera ( 250260 ) <pedro.vera@gmail.com> on Monday January 16, 2006 @11:32AM (#14482471) Homepage Journal
    I am sorry, but as a long time victim of the iMac G5 series, I have to question these pictures.

    Background:

    I have one personal iMac G5 20", and five work iMac G5 20"s all within the serial number range affected by bad capacitors and bad power supplies. A coworker also has a personal iMac G50 20" within the affected range.

    Out of these seven machines, three have already killed one motherboard and a power supply. Two of these machines have burned at least two motherboards.

    So yeah, I have a damn good idea of what the innards of an iMac G5 20" looks like. Because of this I am having a hard time coming to terms with these pictures. They look shoddy as hell, like they are pictures of a pre-production mule or mockup. Tear open any Apple product from the last 5 years and you will notice the fanatical attention to detail in the way the hardware components are laid out. They are very clean and pretty. The iMac G5 20" is extremely well laid up, everything is tucked in, there are no lose wires, and there is basically no space left unused.

    Either these pics are a PS job, or somebody leaked pictures from older test mules. There is no way in hell that Apple is going to sell something that looks so messy.

    • Re:Faked? (Score:3, Informative)

      by wvitXpert ( 769356 )
      Nope, not fake. This is the way iMacs have looked since they added the iSight. I'm disapointed (mainly because it is supposedly VERY difficult to open the machine up), but that didn't stop me from ordering one anyway.
  • Intel chips are designed to be socket mounted, and not surface mounted. Intel would probably not not change the package type for such a small quantity of chips.

    Macs have a long history of addin CPU cards, and clock modifying chips. I'm sure that upgrades will be available. However in recent years there have been major breaking changes (FSB speeds, Dual Core, x64) between lines of chips every year or so. So, to upgrade to the latest and greatest might require a new motherboard anyway.

    Only time will tell
  • I've heard from the previous transition software was still designed for non-PPC processors for a while. But what about OS X? How many revisions went by until the old Motorolla chip was not supported by new releases of the OS, or was it immediately dropped? I know current OS X supports pretty early PPC processors, but I'm not sure about Moto. ones.
    • I think you are asking about 68k macs (pre PowerPC). If so, IIRC, the newest system that will work on a 68k mac is 8.5 or 8.6. Keep in mind PPC's came out around 7.1.x and Apple continued to make the OS compatible with 68k macs for 4 or 5 years after the PPC's were introduced. Long enough that any 68k machines were good and obsolete. The newest 68k mac is now over 10 years old.

      Probably 99% of mac Owners are using PPC machines. I wouldnt expect them to dump PPC support any time soon. Steve Job's old c

  • Intel chipsets used (Score:5, Interesting)

    by daveschroeder ( 516195 ) * on Monday January 16, 2006 @11:39AM (#14482552)
    It's interesting to note that the new iMacs are using a standard Intel 945 Series chipset, and an Intel 82801GBM southbridge [appleintelfaq.com], as well as other standard Intel chipsets and features:

    Other interesting hardware features can be discovered by browsing the output of system_profiler, kextstat, and ioreg [appleintelfaq.com].

    Of note:

    - Full 802.11a support is present [appleinsider.com], though unadvertised, as well as 802.11b/g
    - Intel High Definition Audio [intel.com] is used
    - the iMac's optical drive does have dual layer support, unlike the ultra slimline 9mm drive used in the MacBook Pro
    - the iSight is USB
    - a TPM entry is present in ioreg [appleintelfaq.com]
    - com.apple.Dont_Steal_Mac_OS_X is an active kernel extension

  • Trusted Platform Module (Score:4, Informative)

    by hfollmann ( 564898 ) on Monday January 16, 2006 @12:22PM (#14482933) Homepage
    On one of the pictures you can see a Infinion-TPM module. Is that activated on the Mac?

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