TiVoToGo For iPods and PSPs

BushCheney08 writes "According to an article in the San Francisco Chronicle, TiVo is expanding its TiVoToGo service to allow recordings to be viewed on video iPods and PSPs. Files will be transcoded in real time and will include digital watermarks to try to cut down on piracy. The service begins beta-testing for select subscribers today, with a widespread rollout scheduled for early next year. An AP article is also available at Forbes."

It's surprising to me too!

More than 50 percent of TiVo's 3.6 million subscribers have tried TiVoToGo, and nearly half use it regularly, Denney said. The number of regular users was higher than TiVo expected, and "it was surprising to us, to be honest,'' he said.

Based on how slow the transfers are for Tivo2Go I too am surprised that Tivo has that many people using it. Granted, I was only using it over wireless but I assume that's what most of the Tivo2Go users are using as well. It was taking *more* than real-time to transmit a show to the computer and then I had to run it through Dr. Divx to bring it down to a resolution that would play well on my mobile device. Will this automated transcoding process increase the time it takes to put it on the handheld even more?

I have mentioned before that I use the "Record to VCR" option to put shows on my mobile device as I have an Archos that will automatically record it in the best fit option if I so choose... Yeah, it's real time and it's a pain but it was actually faster and easier than using Tivo2Go. Being that I've moved to the DirecTivo I no longer have the Tivo2Go option (with a stock unit) so I am happy to use Record to VCR for now.

Re:It's surprising to me too!

Will this automated transcoding process increase the time it takes to put it on the handheld even more?

I don't remember if it was mentioned in one of those articles, or if it was a different one, but somewhere it said that conversion is realtime, with a

Re:It's surprising to me too!

Well, you can't really blame Tivo if wireless networking is slow. They have slowly been adding G support, but the problem is, all of the wireless G devices that keep on changing chipsets (quielty). Also, remember with wireless, (B for example) which is 1

Re:It's surprising to me too!

No, I can't blame Tivo for the wireless speeds but it still surprises me that 50% of Tivo users are utilizing this particular transfer method.

Keep in mind, it is already doing some level of transcoding when transfering clips from Tivo computer, so it makes

Re:It's surprising to me too!

It depends on which series 2 Tivo unit you have. The first gen series 2 boxes (the AT&T branded ones, and the 60GB (TSN beginning with 140) were USB 1.1. The 2nd gen series 2 (40/80/140 hour), "nightlight" Tivos, and everything else are USB 2.0. Tivo has slowly been updating its software to support the USB 2.0 boxes (to support G, I suppose)

Re:It's surprising to me too!

Transfers from Tivos seem to be slow whatever you use. I have a series 1 Tivo with mfs_ftp installed on it. I transfer over 100BaseT. The harddrive is a year old 72000 RPM drive, so it's not slow. Downloading from the Tivo I see about 1 Mbs. Uploading shows back to the Tivo I see 140-150 Kbs. It takes me 5-6 hours to put an hour show back on to the Tivo! So I think the problem lies somewhere within the Tivo, and not with the transfer software (be it mfs_ftp or Tivo2Go).

TV Shows on iPod

I've been carrying shows around on my iPod for years. I've got a dozen episodes of Farscape sitting on it right now. I watch shows from my iPod on my Laptop when I'm on the road. I have not bought a Video iPod yet and think I'd prefer to watch on a big laptop screen anyway.

Mac Support

Too bad they never added Tivo To Go For Macintosh, and I doubt they will ever add this feature to Macs either. Nice to be a second or even 3rd class citizen when it comes to Tivo because i own a mac.

Re:Mac Support

You don't need Tivo2Go to download shows from your Series 2 Tivo, you don't event need to mod it....if you go to 'https://tivo:@/nowplaying/index.html' you can download all the shows on your Tivo...Unfortunately, they come down as .tivo files. These files are basically mpegs with an annoying wrapper around them. I use a program (via Virtual PC :-( ) called "Direct Show Filter Dump" [prish.com] to scrape the wrapper off and leave with with an mpeg. It works pretty well, but still requires access to a PeeCee, well, sort of... If anyone knows of a utility to scrape this off in the Mac natively, give a shout. I've tried ffMpeg [slashdot.org] without any luck, although it is still a very useful program.

Re:Mac Support

Just ask Adobe and Quark
Adobe seems to be doing fine, not to mention Photoshop 7 and Illustrator 10 work fine on all versions of os x. And as for quark...
well, if they spent less time on their wierd copy protection maybe the software would work better.

Re:Mac Support

iPods were doing "well" until Apple made a windows-compatible version, then they exploded into an even better bestseller.

Yes, Apple did keep modifying their kernel and breaking stuff in the past. Now they have a consistent kernel system in 10.4 that will allow updates without breaking stuff. Read more about their kernel update system with KPIs [arstechnica.com]

Mac software?

The sad part is that Apple Mac users will not be able to transcode the Tivo files for Apple iPods because of Windows DRM. I keep around an old Windows notebook just to covert Tivo files to AVIs so I can store them on my Mac Mini hooked to my HDTV. What a hassle. Tivo refuses to support Mac users and release a Tiger compatible version of their software [versiontracker.com]. Tivo is supposed to make my life easier by conforming TV to my schedule not to Hollywood's whim. Once my two Tivos die, I will never, ever give money to that stupid TV with legs and arms.

FU Tivo.

Re:Mac software?

Since the files will be converted to mp4 files, they should be playable on a Mac. Let's hope that they'll spend the next few months before rollout working on a Mac compatible version of TiVo Desktop so that you can actually do the conversion on one, too.

Re:Mac software?

Explain please why it's Tivo's fault you bought a Mac.

Well, here's the dilemma. TiVo had fully supported Macs for a long time. And suddenly when the Tivo2Go feature came out, TiVo just didn't release a Mac version. And they didn't say much of anything about it.

There was no announcement that they are dropping Mac support, there was... nothing. So the Mac users who were previously supported think that they are owed either of these:

1. TiVo should simply announce that no Mac support will be given henceforth.

2. At least some kind of update on Mac support. Maybe not even a release date, but at least an announcement that they are working on it.

Now maybe I'm misunderstanding your post and you're trying to snark on Macs or whatever, and that's fine. I just want to make it clear that this isn't just Mac users clamoring for support out of the blue.

How long until

We get a news story about a group of mysterious stormtroopers breaking into the Tivo headquarters and slaughtering its executive board.

I mean, didn't the MPAA just force them to allow remove-deletion of content at will? I can't imagine that promoting copying of saved tv shows will sit well with the cartels.

iPod and 'The Innovators Dilemma'

iPod seems to be turning into the canonical example of attacking an industry leader from below, as detailed in Clayton M. Christensen's "The Innovator's Dilemma: When New Technologies Cause Great Firms to Fail" a decade back.

In business computing, PCs broke the dominance of mainframes in the computing environment by introducing relatively cheap gadgets that were more expensive and less profitable per business function than the industry leaders, who quite logically ignored them; and then PCs crept up the functionality curve to wipe out the dinosaurs.

In autos, the Japanese starting importing cheap cars to the US that were less profitable that our domestic industry leaders, who quite logically failed to respond effectively. While GM etc always made cheap cars too, they didn't try to match Japan's cheap-and-good model; Toyota etc crept up the functionality curve nearly to wipe out the dinosaurs.

Now in computing: the iPod, started cheap, and is creeping up the functionality curve.

The question is, will the industry leaders recognize and respond effectively? Or rather, can they? I don't intend to be making a yet another cheap flame of the world's leading software company, which cannot be ignorant of the what's going on, but responding may require breaking their business model.

Trying vs. Overly-Restrictive DRM

"...will include digital watermarks to try to cut down on piracy. "

That's what I like to hear. Honestly, they'll never eliminate it because there will be the people that just won't pay, but if there was a distribution system (that offered better than 128kbps), was reasonably priced, and offered less restrictive DRM, the general public would have little incentive to pirate. The only things keeping me from buying legal tracks are the DRM and the bitrate. I don't even mind the dollar a song because I'm not getting filler tracks that I would get on a CD.

Anyway...I'm rambling...

Giveth, and taketh away

So TiVo will let us transfer shows to our iPods. This is the same TiVo that already makes their DVRs will obey the Broadcast Flag despite no federal legislation ever mandating such compliance. Seems to me that Disney, the WB, and every other studio will simply flag all their broadcasts as Do Not Record, blocking such free attempts to provide content to one's iPod and PSP and requiring these shows to be purchased. Therefore this announcement therefore amounts to NOTHING!

It will be OS X compatible (at least somewhat)

It makes sense that they would support OS X. The old TiVoToGo relied on Windows Media DRM which was unavailable on the Mac. The tech to make this new watermarking method available on OS X would be trivial. The files themselves *must* be compatible with the Mac if they are to play on the iPod. There's no way TiVo is getting around that.

Also TiVo Desktop *is* compatible with OS X 10.4.2 and 10.4.3 (I've heard but not confirmed 10.4.4 as well). There was an incompatibility with 10.4.0 and 10.4.1, but the later releases of Tiger worked well. The installer gives a false "failed" message, but it does install and it does work very well (better than 10.3.x).

It should also be noted that the CEO of TiVo is a Mac user. They very much wanted to provide Mac support for TiVoToGo, but didn't want to take the legal risk of allowing shows to be transferred without any DRM. Considering Apple won't license their DRM and Windows Media DRM isn't compatible with the Mac, TiVo had little choice but to release for Windows only and/or develop their own DRM method. It looks like the success of the iPod has convinced TiVo that it was worth developing a watermark method that would make the files compatible with the iPod, and as result, the files must be compatible with the Mac.

The only question remains is whether TiVo will provide Mac software that *pulls* (or pushes) the files from the TiVo to the Mac. If they don't, there are plenty of ways of getting around it, but I can't imagine TiVo wouldn't dedicate the couple of hours to develop this software on the Mac.

Re:It will be OS X compatible (at least somewhat)

Also TiVo Desktop *is* compatible with OS X 10.4.2 and 10.4.3 (I've heard but not confirmed 10.4.4 as well). There was an incompatibility with 10.4.0 and 10.4.1, but the later releases of Tiger worked well. The installer gives a false "failed" message, b

Re:MythTV

MPEG output. Open source. Built on any operating system you want. MythTV is simply everything TiVo, Sony, and Apple are not.

Including about 40+ hours of your time, and several wasted unsupported TV tuner card and TV-out video card purchases.

Re:MythTV

"Built on any operating system you want"

As long as you want Linux. *cough*

Re:I wonder...

I wonder how long before it will be that the same places that outlaw talking on a cellphone while driving have to add iPods to that list? I've never been in a situation where I needed to watch tv so bad that I felt I had to carry one around with me everywhere.

I'm not sure I'd consider this a flame, but it seems unreasonable to compare this scenario to the bizarre need to constantly have access to a phone. (Don't get me wrong -- I have a mobile phone. I just turn it off sometimes. But I digress.)

Like a bunch of people, I travel for work. I spend at least 5 hours every week on a plane. That's airtime, excluding time sitting around the airport or going back and forth to the airport. And I know many, many people who take 45-minute train rides to work. Personally, when I'm home I want to do stuff that I can only do when I'm home -- taking some shows with me to kill 5 or 6 hours while I'm traveling is pretty convenient. I kill some dead time and regain some free time at home.

Currently, I do that with my laptop, but an iPod with video would allow me to catch up on some shows in the gate area or during my 40-minute cab ride, not have to juggle my laptop when my meal arrives on the flight, and still watch stuff in the limited space I get on small regional jets. I'm not sold on the new iPod yet -- I'll probably wait another generation and hopefully the screen will get a little bigger.

Re:D'oh

"DirecTV tivos never even supported TivoToGo in the first place. The whole idea terrifies them."

It isn't that DirecTV is terrified by the process due to legal implications; its because DirecTV's parent company - News Corp. aka "Fox" - owns TiVo competitor NDS which does not have a similar option. NDS has been slow to market with just about every platform they've developed, and Rupert Murdoch is using DirecTV as a means of making his investment in NDS not look like a foolish mistake. If TiVo-To-Go and the other Home Media features were enabled on all DirecTV branded TiVos, who would seriously sign up for the NDS DirecTV DVR model? The only things going for the NDS model is that it has a 90 minute live tv buffer and it can display Caller ID info on the screen for incoming telephone calls.

Re:Bah, US Bastards :)

"The 1 reason to move to the US (TiVo) just got even hotter"

TiVo is now in Canada officially. Just thought I'd mention that.