iTunes More Popular Than Most P2P Sites 333
bonch writes "A study by NPD Group shows that iTunes ranks #2 in popularity of music downloads, rivaling services like Limewire, Kazaa, and iMesh. The #1 service was still WinMX, but NPD believes this proves to the music industry that legal downloads can work, and that iTunes provides an economically viable alternative." From the article: "According to NPD, about 4 percent of Internet-enabled households in the nation used a paid music download store in March."
Why Should The RIAA Be Surprised? (Score:5, Insightful)
A radio program this morning on NPR discussed how the movie industry was losing money on opening day box office receipts at the same time they are making a killing with DVD sales ($17BUSD). That means that they are going to have to change not only their marketing (opening day receipts are generally a 16-24 year old market), but also their metric for gauging success.
Overall, once they stop focusing all of their energy on litigation and lobbying for worthless copy-protection standards, they will begin to create a market-driven system that people will gravitate to and embrace.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Meanwhile, somewhere in Hollywood... (Score:5, Insightful)
Its funny that you made the same comment, in a different way, as the commenter on NPR. They said something to the effect that "these people [entertainment execs] are really smart and will eventtually figure this out".
Until now, of course, all they have shown is that they are frightened asswipes with souless lawyers at the ready.
Re:Meanwhile, somewhere in Hollywood... (Score:2, Insightful)
Executive: Wow, iTunes really is moving a lot of units. Get Vinnie the Two Ton Crusher on the line, we've got to demand that iTunes quadruple the price and halve their cut. Bwahahaha! Let's fuck over the consumer some more! $50 CDs, here they come!
Re:Meanwhile, somewhere in Hollywood... (Score:3, Insightful)
Compare it to the Japanese audio CDs I buy all the time? a booklet thicker than the CD, complete with lyrics! (why do the western CDs usually lack them? afraid of "infringement"? the last Japanese piano CD album I bought even
Re:Meanwhile, somewhere in Hollywood... (Score:2)
Re:Why Should The RIAA Be Surprised? (Score:5, Funny)
This new-fangled form of distribution is going to ruin all creativity as we know it! Just like the VCR killed all movie production and Xerox ruined the publishing industry! We're doomed! Dinner is Ruined! We cant have nice things!
Re:Why Should The RIAA Be Surprised? (Score:2)
Sort of off-topic, but I had absolutely no idea how many textbooks are available on eMule. I mean, I needed Jackson's Electrodynamics book, and it was there. My friend got me Sakurai's Quantum Book off there, and that's just the tip of the (online book-pilfering) iceberg. So, maybe Xerox avoided the wrath of publishers, but might they go after online services like this next? And no, neither book is public domain (yet).
Re:Why Should The RIAA Be Surprised? (Score:4, Funny)
If that happens it's the end of the writing industry and *no more books will ever be written*. The entire world will be plunged into darkness!!!
Re:Why Should The RIAA Be Surprised? (Score:2)
I think you mean they're losing money on total box office receipts. Or are they expecting to pay for all the production & distribution costs and then some from a single day's ticket sales?
Re:Why Should The RIAA Be Surprised? (Score:4, Informative)
No, although the total office receipts are dropping too.
Or are they expecting to pay for all the production & distribution costs and then some from a single day's ticket sales?
No, they were using opening day receipts as a guage on how many units they would ship to Blockbuster and other rental outlets. The popularity movie as a rental was a function of how well it did opening day.
Re:Why Should The RIAA Be Surprised? (Score:3, Insightful)
Frankly, there's just too much product out there... even for my limited tastes there's times that 5 movies want to "compete" aginst each other when i'd like to see them all... other times there's mont
Re:Why Should The RIAA Be Surprised? (Score:3, Insightful)
Now there may be a set of people who won't see the movie in theatres but who wait for the DVD. I'd argue that those might be dollars gained rather than lost, since when I go through that argument, it's usually for a movie that I consider marginal, and won't pay $10 to see, but will pay $2. So that's an extra $2 they wouldn
Re:Why Should The RIAA Be Surprised? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why Should The RIAA Be Surprised? (Score:2)
I think you've nailed it. The commenter also said that theaters will continue to operate, but only serve a niche market.
Re:Why Should The RIAA Be Surprised? (Score:3, Insightful)
And, even when they are honest and tell you when the movie *actually* starts (so you could avoid the ads), then all the
Re:Why Should slashdot Be Surprised? (Score:3, Insightful)
True, but the only way that the industry will move forward is by finding a way to work with the system as it exists today.
Even if they were to successfully destroy the current system, it will come back at some point in the future and the next person/company will make the money they should be making now.
Re:Why Should The RIAA Be Surprised? (Score:2)
Or did you never trade tapes with friends in the "old days"?
I sure did. I still have a few, but hardly listen to them except in my RV. I haven't mounted a CD player in it yet.
even completely independent music sells VERY well (Score:5, Interesting)
I gotta admit that when we started doing digital distribution two years ago, I thought it would be just a small income stream for the musicians - some extra income, maybe $5k/month combined.
But our checks from Apple et al have been over $300,000 a month so far this year! And that's just for our catalog of mostly-unknown all-independent music. (And hey for the record, 91% of all that income goes directly to the musician.)
NOTE: a lot of this discovery of independent music is thanks to cover songs [cdbaby.org] - another twist I never expected.
Yes us alpha-geeks here on Slashdot may get our music from allofmp3.com or SoulSeek or whatever, but there's definitely millions paying that 99-cents-per song, or $20/month subscription out there. I get to see the detailed sales reports every month.
(Personally, I'm so impressed with Yahoo Music Unlimited [yahoo.com], that it's making me want to use Windows again!)
Re:even completely independent music sells VERY we (Score:3, Interesting)
The first lesson a band learns is that bookings come easier when you do covers.
Re:even completely independent music sells VERY we (Score:2)
Re:even completely independent music sells VERY we (Score:3, Insightful)
Here's a thought (Score:2)
Then you get unlimited access for a one time investment - and if you ever want to you can cancel and get your $1500 back, and yahoo can have their music back.
Sure it's DRM'd but i've found Yahoo's drm pretty unobtrusive.
Re:Here's a thought (Score:2)
Heaven help you if you decide to buy a Mac or install Linux.
If my machine goes fubar (Score:2)
Equally if Yahoo! go bankrupt then i can just sign up for raphsody using the money i would have spent on yahoo (well actually a little more) and i'll have access to the same (well slightly different) unlimited set of music.
The Mac/Linux thing is a problem, but I'm doing windows development right now so need to have an XP machine anyway.
I'm sure streaming services will be available on the Mac wi
Re:Here's a thought (Score:3, Interesting)
2)I can't use it on my linux box anyway
3)I have better things to do with that kind of money.
4)I don't rent anything I intend to use long term. Not a house, not a car. Why the hell would I rent my music. If I can't buy it and keep it, I don't want it. The only things I rent are books fromt he library, and thats because they're free.
Re:Here's a thought (Score:2)
Re:Here's a thought (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Here's a thought (Score:2)
Some counter points (Score:2)
2) I feel your pain here. Hopefully in time someone will realise that people want to play music in Linux and that there is a market. Either that or Mplayer will start playing Y! music files - they play fine in WMP.
3) If you have better things to do with your money than spending it on music, then by all means go for it. Music is a luxury item.
4) Here's an analogy.
Say you house costs $250,000 and you have a 5%, 30 yr mortgage on it, and lets assume it doesn't appreciate at all (because music
Come on, you think .0001 per song is fair? (Score:3, Insightful)
As far as I am concerned a price less than that is really unfair to the artists and does act as a disincentive for others to produce music for a living.
That's why I do not think we'll see legit US sites ever offer what you are asking for. No artist would allow it.
Re:Come on, you think .0001 per song is fair? (Score:2)
A price less than that is a disincentive for the artists? You do realise the actual artist usualy makes
If the legit US sites won't offer a s
Re:Come on, you think .0001 per song is fair? (Score:3, Informative)
$300,000 a month, $3.6 million a year, 91% goes to the artist.
So $273,000 a month goes to the artists. Or, if you believe DownhillBattle, $0.65 of every $0.99 goes to CDBaby, and if 91% goes to the artist, then each artist gets $0.59 a track.
Your value of $0.10 to $0.25 is bogus, and applies to non indie, RIAA affiliated musicians. So if you really do want to support artists, find some indies on iTunes and buy away; look for CDBaby artists, and you'll be givin
Re:Come on, you think .0001 per song is fair? (Score:2)
Re:even completely independent music sells VERY we (Score:2)
The reason why I dropped Napster was because of the insane percentage of "Buy-ONLY" songs. Why pay a subscription if you have to pay again to listen to half an album. I am really wondering if Yahoo doesn't have this problem. So far Rhapsody is clean.
Re:even completely independent music sells VERY we (Score:2)
iTunes Performance (Score:2)
Also, most Windows users don't
Re:even completely independent music sells VERY we (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:even completely independent music sells VERY we (Score:2)
I noticed that your website only offers
My project is going for a radio-esque niche and I think my users prefer discreet files for portables and whatnot. I would love to post some files...
Re:Sneaky advertising? (Score:2)
He's an independent music distributor (by Internet!). Ergo, he is a nerd (Slashdot: News For nerds).
Q.E.D.
Besides, the possibility of the title catching his eye isn't far fetched - and remember that in Technologyreview.com there are RSS feeds from slashdot.
So I'd say this guy's apparition is pretty logical, actually. You can safely put down your tinfoil hat now
Not just him, but employees, friends, family, ... (Score:2)
Not just him, but his employees, and all their friends and family. Now toss in all his business associates (the musicians), and their friends and family,
Re:Sneaky advertising? (Score:3, Informative)
Because I'm a paying Slashdot member which means I saw the story posted a full 20 minutes or so before the non-paying browsers see it.
So there. :-)
Come on, CD Baby is great (Score:3, Interesting)
Beyond that I've bought things from CD baby over the past few years and they are a GREAT company that gives artists a good deal. You should be praising them, not burying them.
My favorite CD from them so far has been The Haight Gang. Great stuff.
Re:even completely independent music sells VERY we (Score:2)
Vanilla Ice (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:even completely independent music sells VERY we (Score:4, Informative)
Are you smoking the ganj, man? You demonstrated you read the post, but I think you missed this:
GP:91% of all that income goes directly to the musician.
300k - 91% = 27k left to pay hosting/bandwidth costs, advertising, any employees that need to be paid, any other costs of doing business, oh yea and 4) PROFIT!!.
I know the RIAA has left us gun shy of the words "music" and "profit" together; but he's paying the artists fairly and giving everyone the same fair shot. This guy isn't using any industry stranglehold on politicians & airwaves to artificially pump up the prices.
~Rebecca
WinMX is not #1 (Score:2, Funny)
Re:WinMX is not #1 (Score:4, Informative)
Of course the reason for the WinMX software not to get updated for 2 years is coz it doesn't work, right? And the queues, they're there only to allow RIAA stooges to log your IP manually, and the users who say "you don't share enough", they're MPAA hooks using entrapment tactics. And the range of rare content is because only eclectic people use it.
May WinMX continue to suck.
Stand by for BS (Score:3, Insightful)
Not BS (Score:3, Insightful)
Cumulative though (Score:2)
Re:Cumulative though (Score:2)
Re:Cumulative though (Score:2)
I feel sorry for all the people who pay for music (Score:4, Insightful)
What will happen when Apple goes bankrupt? Or when the next generation of mini-players comes out with a new DRM?
People are paying for music, then being told how they can use it.
Fair use is simple. I can make as many copies for myself as I want. Many DRM's make it impossible to make even a back up copy. But what if I want one copy for my MP3 player, one on a CD for my car, and one for my wifes car? Does that mean I must buy three copies?
Re:I feel sorry for all the people who pay for mus (Score:2)
If you want one for your MP3 player and two CDs, then burn two CDs and upload to your (iPod) MP3 player.
In addition you can also store it on 4 additional computers. Or is it 6 now? I forget.
then don't use iTunes (Score:2)
Then buy CDs , what is the problem?
or are you some sort of bizarre Music Puritan that is offended that people actually buy music from iTunes?
Re:I feel sorry for all the people who pay for mus (Score:2)
If you want a CD, buy a CD. If you want only a single track, buy a single. If you want that single cheap, use iTunes. That's all there really is to it.
I feel sorry for you (Score:2)
why the fuck would anyone decide to reduce their options in this way? it's like you're applying DRM to your *life*, and I'll tell you this: the DRM you're applying is a hell of a lot worse than that Apple puts on iTunes music.
Re:I feel sorry for all the people who pay for mus (Score:2)
Since they let you burn all the music you've purchased to an un-DRM-encumbered audio CD, I don't see it as that big a deal. Once you've got your audio CD, you can do anything.
Re:I feel sorry for all the people who pay for mus (Score:2)
eMusic is a US site, and they sell popular music without DRM, right? Apple could do so (at least with some of their tracks) if they really wanted to.
The problem is they don't want to sell DRM-free tracks, they want to sell you an iPod.
Re:I feel sorry for all the people who pay for mus (Score:3, Insightful)
Yet it continues to get more stringent. Compare the restrictions you have now with the restrictions you had a few versions ago. How many computers can play the same tracks per day? How many times?
Err, OK. Initially, you could play your music on up to three computers. Now it's five. And there's never been any limit to the number of times you can play a track.
Two ways out with Apple DRM (Score:5, Insightful)
You must be thinking of the OTHER music companies, that re-authorize every month or what have you.
If Apple went out of buisiness, you music would continue to play on your current Mac until the end of time.
However, like you say eventually you'd want to move the music. Two options then:
CD's - I can burn any ITMS song to CD as much as I like (limit of ten burns a playlist, but I can always make new playlists...)
Hymn [hymn-project.org] - I can convert protected AAC files into unprotected AAC files, which I can then play on anything that undrestands AAC (most PC players, not many portables) or convert it from there.
So yeah I feel sorry for anyone buying music from anywhere other than ITMS or AllOfMP3.com. I still don't like to use AllOfMP3 though as I don't feel it gives artists as much as it should. Perhaps in the future I'll buy from ITMS, then buy the non-lossy version from AllOfMP3. Too much work though, so I probably wont...
Speed of Sound (Score:5, Informative)
iTunes safer (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:iTunes safer (Score:2)
Just buy the frick'n album at a store.....I promise the sunlight won't make you melt
Re:iTunes safer (Score:2)
My problem with iTunes (Score:3, Funny)
Re:My problem with iTunes (Score:2)
And man, I've never seen so much ABBA in my life. Holy cow..
i think things will change... (Score:2)
a decent printer is easy to get. liner notes etc. could be bundled in.
i am just surprised it is taking so long.
Re:i think things will change... (Score:3, Insightful)
Me, I like the all you can eat for $/month model, but to each his own.
Re:i think things will change... (Score:2)
Even "albums" I've found online are of poor quality.. like someone downloaded the individual tracks from various p2p services and then made a torrent out of it. One such album frustrated me, so I ended up just buying the damn thing.. but no such luck with some of the out of print albums.
BitTorrent? (Score:2)
iTunes "market share" below 20% (Score:3)
Slyck survey is worldwide (Score:2)
Legit download services are only available in a handful of countries, and i'm not sure that streaming services are available anywhere outside of north america.
I suspect a lot more people would pay for music if it were readily available to them - at least that's what i get by looking at both these results.
Re:iTunes "market share" below 20% (Score:2)
Re:iTunes "market share" below 20% (Score:2)
"These stats are displayed on a network-by-network basis. While they are able to demonstrate the growth [or] decline of an individual network, they do not compare or evaluate the trends of the P2P community as a whole."
Your comparison is misleading and invalid.
Not really that surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
I can think of several factors. First, of course, the quality of the music is much better in AAC than the ripped mp3's you find online. Second, you don't get screwed by fake or misnamed files, truncated versions, or the whole other slew of crappy files you find through P2P. Third, the legality of it vs P2P is appealing, especially when you get older and you start worrying more about not making mistakes you'll regret later.
Fourth (and I think this one is very important, which is why I gave it its own paragraph) the interface to iTunes makes it so, so easy. Not only the iPod integration, but just the fact that making the actual purchase (after you login) is so smooth, you forget at the time you're actually spending $1 per song. You just click on the buy song button, the song is downloaded (and iTunes is still very useable while the song is being downloaded), and you don't even think that you will be billed for it later. The $1's add up, of course, but it took me a while to look at my collection and realize I had just spent $200 on music I could have gotten for free (had I really wanted to). On P2P it involves placing a search, looking through the hundreds of results you get back to find a version that looks legit and has the bitrate you want, hope that the file will still be available throughout the entire download, then wait while you're access to the song is limited by the slowest peer you're getting it from.
About the only reason, besides the cost savings, I can think of for still going to P2P for music is if you have a music player other than an iPod and don't want to go through the hassle of burning the song to a CD before you can rerip and transfer it to the player. Unless, of course, there are AAC to mp3/ogg/wmv converters out there than can convert Apple's DRMed version, and if there are, please tell me where, because I've looked and haven't been able to find any that work.
I left WinMX (Score:2)
General Observation (Score:5, Informative)
Nothing really lost, they weren't going to buy it anyways.
BUT, when they DO have money...they BUY their music, either on CD or via iTunes or some other vendor.
When your TIME becomes WORTH something you don't SPEND it all on P2P.
I don't know, that's what I see going on around me....
It's not an Arguement, it's an OBSERVATION.... (Score:3, Insightful)
???
I never said that so please don't "quote" me like that.
I represent the "casual downloader"
You are their representative? Do you have a card?
I don't think $0.99 is a fair price, with most of it going to the label.
I see, so downloading songs from P2P is better for the artist. According the Representative of the Casual Downloaders.
This may sound crass, but at least I'm being honest w
Why P2P "sites"? (Score:2, Interesting)
I wish journalists were more informated about stuff they wrote about.
and here's why. . . (Score:3, Insightful)
x86 has DRM/Trusted Computing.
PPC does not.
I don't think this was so much a case of Steve Jobs playing hardball with IBM, as it is a case of Sony playing hardball with Steve Jobs.
Network != Client (Score:3, Informative)
Limewire is simply a client for the gnutella network. Same story with Kazaa for the FastTrack network. The article doesn't seem to distringuish between a network, and an interface (client) to that network.
This doesn't mean their statistics are invalid, simply that they haven't grasped a fundamental distinction between a network and a client. It does make me question the credibility of the statistics.
On topic, I'm still waiting for a legal site that offers DRM-less lossless (or Ogg, since that's the format I want to convert to) music. I'll pay them happily. I just want it all to work under Linux, for a bit cheaper than simply buying all the CDs and ripping them costs me in money and time. Oh, and I want to have permanent access to the music, without any of my fair use priveleges infringed upon. =) I use Magnatune, but something slightly more mainstream would be nice, as well.
report is bull---- (Score:2, Informative)
How about fair pricing? (Score:2)
$0.99 = £0.54
0.99 Euros = £0.66
What's the cost for iTunes UK? £0.79. At least they lowered it from £0.99, but it's still a rip off in comparison. Make if fairer and then i might consider using their services.
Re:How about fair pricing? (Score:2)
Re:How about fair pricing? (Score:2)
Oh, and from a quick Google it looks like the standard rated VAT for music is 17.5%.
People are creatures of convenience (Score:3, Interesting)
I didn't try and find other places for more
I haven't looked for any kind of music online in a few years because its too much work. I dont want to install crap, i dont want to uninstall spyware, i dont want to worry abou not getting all of a file, and i dont want to be sued over a couple of songs that aren't any good to begin with. Hell, when i see mp3 files with naming convenitions i disagree with, i get upset and dont want the work of making sure the ID3 data is right and what not.
iTunes is really, really convenient. I haven't bought anything from it, but my wife has when shes looking for some specific song for some reason or another.
I think the value proposition is that paying 99 cents for a known quantity is more convenient than wasting a bunch of time and perhaps needing multiple attempts to get the same thing.
Apparently this value proposition is working for alot of people.
WinMX??? (Score:2)
What does WinMX bring to the table?
Re:WinMX??? (Score:2)
And as far as I know, it was one of the first to work without a central server.
And more importantly, it was one of the first to allow you to download the same song (or whatever) from several different people at the same time.
I never understood why it never gets any press. And now that I've learned its number one, I'm even more shocked.
But, when you've got a great product, you d
distributed distribution (Score:3, Insightful)
All this means is that iTMS is the only *single* place left. All the real action is distributed throughout the Internet. The only reason most go to bittorrent.com is to download the software - not the content.
So, what fraction of Internet traffic [slashdot.org] does iTMS pull?
most popular, my ass...
Well duh! (Score:2)
I see you and I raise you... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Playing iTunes files (Score:3, Funny)
What's a CD?
is it like the iPod thing I use in the car?
Re:Playing iTunes files (Score:2)
I am using a PowerBook and OS X to burn the discs. I get maybe one glitch (i.e. on *one* song) maybe every 3-4 discs I burn.
Re:No (Score:2)
I don't agree with the RIAA's actions, but you are simply wrong. You have no right to share music you have paid for, except for the rights granted to you by the copyright holder and US law (assuming you are a US citizen purchasing music in the US). Fair use does not extend to "sharing the music with everyone on the internet".
If you want free music, you can find it out there. J
Re:How Many Were Paid, Though (Score:2)
Re:Great but.. (Score:5, Insightful)
And this is different from physical CD purchases how? Let's say you have a CD, and it gets damaged or lost. Same scenario here, you've paid for something you don't have anymore.
With both scenarios, you have two options - back up your music (whether by burning a data CD/DVD of iTMS purchases or ripping your CD to MP3), or risk losing your music.
You do have a valid point, and I do agree with you, that it would be nice if your Apple ID also facilitated in keeping a record of all music you've purchased in case you need to re-download them.
.Apple restored my music from stolen laptop (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Why I like ITMS(despite not using it) (Score:2, Insightful)
They have been selling single songs via reduced media since the earliest days. It morphed into the Cassingle (cassette tape with limited length) in the mid 80's and the maxi-single (mini-cd) in the 90's.
The record companies know whats up, they have been pushing "single" songs on us for years, even selling you entire bloated albums based off of one