10.4 on Display at FOSE

CmdrStone writes "Just thought I'd post to let people know that while at FOSE today in the Washington, D.C. Convention center I lingered at the Apple pavilion / booth. To my surprise every machine had 10.4 running. The build number matches the build number found on the rumor sites; 8A428. Does this presage Tiger hitting the shelves soon? Personally, my main interest was how much iSync was expanded to support more devices, phones, etc. The Apple rep confirmed that the number of devices has expanded. He lamented that his Symbian phone, the Nokia 9500 Communicator, still was not included in the supported phones. He did tell me that he was able to tether his Powerbook and get online via his 9500's T-Mobile connection."

Well...

It did go gold about a week ago, so yes you should see it on store shelves soon.

This just in..

A product that is due to come out soon may be coming out soon. Stay tuned for updates.

Re:Well...

Been 18 months since Panther was released. Maybe in Longhorn months that would be 6 months.

Re:Well...

I *have* used Windows in the last six years (it's my primary platform until this computer breaks and I switch to a Mac) and the GP poster is absolutely correct. Each release adds more and more "features" designed to "protect users from piracy" by removing their control of their own computer.

Consider, for example, Product Activation, which Microsoft added in Windows XP. Now, not only do you have to pay Microsoft for the privilege of using their operating system, but you must also ask Microsoft permission each time you do so.

There are innumerable accounts of people who've had problems with Product Activation, but let's assume activation is flawless and that no legally-licensed Windows user will ever be flagged for activation. This February, Microsoft changed the rules, and all of a sudden, owners of an OEM edition of Windows (almost everybody) now have to call Microsoft EVERY TIME they reinstall their hard drive, and answer questions to prove they own (excuse me, _license_) the software they're trying to install. This "service" is a feature of Microsoft's Genuine Advantage program, but I don't see any advantage in being treated like a criminal.

Windows Media Player is also the subject of "enhancements" by Microsoft, and in June, 2002, Microsoft decided to add a new condition to Media Player's EULA with the patch for security bulletin MS02-032. Now, instead of consenting to updates to their computer, Microsoft gets to decide that Media Player updates "will be automatically downloaded onto your computer, [and] these security related updates may disable your ability to copy and/or play Secure Content and use other software on your computer."

Now, Longhorn will soon be released (eventually), and users will find that their computer is the subject of even more restrictions. Palladium was canceled for both PR and time constraint reasons (thank goodness), but make no mistake - Longhorn will have more "features" designed to take even more control from computer owners and put it in Microsoft's hands.

So, now what? Well, you'll no doubt tell me that we have the freedom to switch to Linux, but how free is it? Neither Dell nor the other PC manufacturers will sell me a computer with an empty hard drive at the same price as the bundled version, let alone cheaper. I should not have to pay for an unused copy of Windows (which Microsoft will not refund the cost of, in violation of THEIR OWN EULA), and I should not have to purchase my computer from a fly-by-night retailer who might not be around next year to honor my warranty.

Yes, Apple has their own problems with intellectual property ethics. For example, I have not and will not purchase music from the iTunes Music Store unless they remove DRM from the "bargain". However, at the moment, Apple is still mostly treating their customers right. Until iWork, for example, their was no such thing as typing in a serial number in an Apple product. I am concerned that Macromedia and Adobe are starting to implement activation on the Mac versions of their software, but there are FOSS alternatives that I can use.

I'm not an Apple troll - I've been using DOS and Windows for 15 years, and I used to ridicule Apple until OS X was released. I have no loyalties to any company - I will happily give my money to the companies that treat me as a valued, important customer, rather than a criminal.

Change is in the air. It started about the time Microsoft began demonizing the people who lined their pockets.

Um.

So your point is that Apple is making more progress more quickly than any other OS vendor you can name, frequently giving us the choice to upgrade to improved features, speed, security, and stability... and you for some reason feel that people would be upset by this?

Oh, I guess maybe you mean users of all non-Apple OSs. Yeah, I suppose they do have a pretty damn good reason to be grumpy.

Torrent, anybody?

Anybody manage to make off with a hard drive from one of those Macs, image it and make a .torrent of it?

Re:Torrent, anybody?

This article [macnet2.com] points out that most of the Torrent sites are shying away from hosting a copy of Tiger in fear of lawsuits from Apple.

Re:Torrent, anybody?

If you are a college student or an educator, you can get Tiger at a discount. (If you aren't, make sure you know a student or educator!) For Panther, the edu discount price was $65; presumably, Tiger will be the same.

Re:Torrent, anybody?

I bet 10.1 still gives you headaches today. Their beers don't.

Re:Torrent Roar!

++ vote for 'Liger'!...

Deb: "What are you drawing?"
Napoleon: "A Liger"
Deb: "What's a Liger?"
Napoleon: "It's probably my favorite animal. It's a cross between a lion and tiger. It's bred for its skills in magic."

Tiger

Tyger! Tyger! burning bright In the forests of the night. What immortal hand or eye Could frame thy fearful final build?

Re:Tiger

That rhymes even worse than the original.

Going all the way

If you're going to change it, might as well finish it off:


Tyger! Tyger! Burning Gold
In the burners to be sold.
What immortal slot or tray
Could load thee come time for GA?

In what distant road or skies,
Might come the discs that makes search fly?
On what wings to us do speed,
A Dashboard to hold small things we need?

And what shoulder and what art,
Can automate the things that aren't?
Why it's Automator - pretty sweet!
Should I buy it? In a beat!


As you can tell by the last verse it's about time for me to give up :-)

now if only

they could support my i830, I'd love to be able to Sync my contacts

List of Devices?

Seeing as how I'm in the process of looking for a new phone, is there a list of soon-to-be supported devices?

Well...

The "rumour sites" have been saying that the recent build was going to be the GM... aaaaaand... WWDC *is* coming up. (June 6-10) AND Steve Jobs did say something about it being ready during the first half of 2005.

Coincidence? Maybe. :P Someone jumping the gun a bit and showing off 10.4 when they're probably not supposed to? Likely. ;)

connect via 9500's T-Mobile connection?

Let's hope he doesn't keep his contact list and amateur pr0n synced à la Paris Hilton.

FOSE is kind of like the GTC

GTC = Government Technology Conference, held around this time in Sacramento, CA.

Chances are, they're showcasing 10.4 to Government buyers. This is not uncommon, actually. I saw the iMac at the GTC expo months before the unit was available to the public. At that time, it was 1 of only 7 completed iMacs - Apple was more than happy to showcase it to the Government & Educational buyers.

Heck, Apple was showing 10.4 at booths at Macworld - why not? "Look what you can look forward to!" ;)

Tiger timeline and iSync supported devices

It isn't a surprise that Apple is now touting 10.4 (aka "Tiger") at the trade shows. It is very close to release - and although it has rumored to have "gone gold", its availability is still rumored to be several weeks away.

In terms of iSync, it has been rumored that it will be upgraded to support more devices, but the precise list has not been made available. Hopefully device manufacturers are smart enough to get their (favored) phones represented in the list of devices they sell... but clearly, some manufacturers are sunsetting a bunch of devices - and so the financial advantage of iSync support for end-of-life products is dubious.

I was at FOSE too....

And Tiger was on display. Although the Apple guys were tight lipped about whether it was official or not (don't fire anyone Steve they didn't spill the beans!)
Even more interesting from my perspective was that from the talks I had with them, their server line and the X-raid stuff is starting to garner a lot more interest in government areas that were previously closed to anything related to Apple. I'd seen their stuff online, but once you get to see it first-hand and see the prices it's difficult to see why this stuff is so freakin' cool.

Re:I was at FOSE too....

AAAGGGH!!! Ok... last line....
it's not difficult to see why this stuff is so freakin' cool

Long day walking the floor at FOSE

List of devices that will work with iSync?

I want to get a power book as soon as tiger comes out on them (probably not for a few months, regardless). Is there some way to find out what devices are supported, so I can make sure to get a cellphone that is? Also, if i got a cell phone with a 128 meg card like this one (motorola E398 [myworldphone.com]), will I be able to back up many of my text documents (as in almost all of them, up to the storage capacity) using iSync to the phone, or just contact info?

Thanks.

Re:List of devices that will work with iSync?

List of compatible iSync devices [apple.com]. Currently addresses version 10.3, but wait until 10.4 is out and the list will prolly be updated immeditately.

Cheers!

Sharing internet to Bluetooth still does not work

Apparently, Tiger still can't share [osnews.com] its internet connection to Bluetooth devices though. This is so bad for us with PDAs. :(

You can share your Bluetooth connection *to* wifi/eth0, but you can't share your wifi/modem/eth0 *to* Bluetooth devices. And all the third party hacks are just not reliable.

Apparently Linux can do it [osnews.com] reliably.

Re:Sharing internet to Bluetooth still does not wo

Have you gotten a good answer on this yet? From skimming it looks like you haven't. Let me help.

Internet sharing on the Mac works through DHCP. When you turn on Internet sharing on a given interface, an instance of the DHCP server is launched bound to that interface and the kernel is configured to route packets from that interface to the default route.

Bluetooth doesn't work like that. There's no IP-over-Bluetooth. Instead, Bluetooth works like a serial port. While yes, you can certainly shuttle IP over serial using PPP, that's not how the Mac's Internet sharing works.

Why not? Because exactly zero people have submitted feature requests. At this point, the feature list for Mac OS X is so deep, a feature has to be requested by tens of thousands of people before it bubbles up to the top.

So if you get together with 19,999 of your closest friends and submit requests to Radar, I'm sure we'll get right on it.

I know this sounds elitist, but the bottom line is that we only have so many programmers. They can't scratch every user's every itch. If we tried ... well, frankly, we'd be shipping a product with tons of bugs, no documentation and zero user experience. There are already products like that out there. Lots of people like them. Maybe one would be better for you.

OS X Liger

Rumor Site: What the next OS you're releasing? Apple: OS X Liger. Rumor Site: What's a liger? Apple: It's pretty much our favorite OS. It's like Panther and Tiger mixed... bred for its skills in magic. Rumor Site: Oooooh

Re:OS X Liger

Go see Napoleon Dynamite. GP was making a joke, ya dweeb.

Re:OS X Liger

Are you honestly trying to tell us that this [blogspot.com] doesn't have magical powers? Wait until it stalks you in stealth mode.

Foose Design

Mac OS X?

I always thought Chip was a Linux user?

FACT!

FACT! Ligers actually exist (despite their whimsical use in Napoleon Dynamite): http://www.tigers-animal-actors.com/about/liger/li ger.html [tigers-animal-actors.com] FWIW: I'm also waiting on the release of 10.4 before ordering a powerbook

10.4 will be out within 10 days...

Because Apple is introducing new versions of lots of software at NAB for video editing and whatnot (shake, etc). NAB starts next tuesday.

What I would like to see in iSync

You know what I'd like to see supported with iSync? Plain old USB thumb/jump/key/etc... drives.

Re:What I would like to see in iSync

That's a good idea. You're basically asking for sync-to-file. You should submit it as a feature request. I'll check Radar in a couple of days (making myself an iCal to-do as we speak) and if it's not in there, I'll add it myself.

Acronyms by osmosis?

How are people supposed to "just know" the acronyms that pop up?

I didn't have a clue what FOSE stood for. I clicked the link to its home page, and not once is it defined there.

A quick Google search fixed this (FOSE - Federal Office Systems Exposition) but really: are things like this so commonly known that they don't need to be defined?

FTE with DOS

So... would being an FTE with DOS make you a Frickin' Teledildonics Engineer with the Department of Sex? Or a Faster-Than-Everything with Denial-of-Service? I am not really clear on that point.

What's the Hold Up?

If Apple's internal teams have gone final (and that's a big IF) it's not uncommon for a release to still be waiting on:

• notification of changes in code licensed from a vendor or third-party
• a multiple week soak time after the code freeze to discover bugs (eat your own dog food for a while)
• exhaustive documentation of the final changes (both to users and developers)

Even if all of this has been finalized as the rumors indicate, there are still other reasons why a release would be delayed after going final, including:

• Finding the best marketing opportunity to make the introduction (which I know little of).
• Ensuring that one's unfinished hardware has only expected problems and incompatabilities (if any at all).
• Letting the application teams (Final Cut, iWork, iLife, etc) get their work fully compliant before release (the market does have higher expectations for Apple authored apps).

While the Mac rumor sites have been speculating on an early release of Tiger since it was announced last June, I don't think that their rumor-mongering does anything to speed up its release and quite possibly:

• delays distribution of the gold master to developers.
• delays the public announcement until Apple is seen as the one setting the expectations rather than the rumor sites.
• makes open discussion of releases beyond Tiger even more secretive.

Personally, I'm still running Panther. I've got a backup plan, blank media, and a time estimate of about 3 days downtime needed to transition to Tiger and test my setup once it comes out. Beyond that, I've made no plans that depend on an unreleased or rumored feature. I'm anxious for that release date to get here, but I'm prepared as well as I can whether that date is tomorrow or June 30th.

Well, it would be nice if Apple fixed...

...this [frsirt.com]before allowing their vendors to add more crappy conduits and then taking forever to fix their old root exploitable ones.

9500, connectivity, PuTTY

It's great that he could bridge to his 9500 and connect, but I guess one could also just run the Symbian version of PuTTY [sourceforge.net] as well. I use it and it works great on my 9500.

Apple Lawyers...

...are now moving in your direction.

Improved Palm support would be nice

It's great that the list of supported devices is expanded and everything, but do you suppose Apple could get their iSync Palm Conduit to work a little better? I wouldn't mind if they could get the devices they currently support to work better before they start adding support for every phone on the planet.

Tiger out on May 1st

Well, that's my best information, but if we each choose one day each, someone is bound to be correct.

Anyone ask about VoiceOver?

Has anyone asked the reps about the screen reader [apple.com]?

This was reported on a year ago [slashdot.org].

Coming out at NAB for sure

From an inside source.

Symbian bringing pleasure to us all...

I wonder if the Girls of OS X wanting to get their Symbian connectivity should in the meantime simply enjoy another kind of symbian satisfaction until OS X supports the phone kind. ;)

Simpsons tie in...

All i can think about is the scene in The Simpsons episode 1f08 ($pringfield) where Gunter and Ernst capture their white tiger.

"Hey Tiger! " "Wake up" and they dart the tiger.

My mind insists on remembering this as "yoohoo!! TIgrrrr!!

So when i hear Mac OS 10.4 all i can do is run ja, hello tiger yoohoo in my head and giggle. I'm compelled to make tiger claw hands when i do this...

I know people are jackasses about....

... acronyms and missing info in titles, and usually they're just being tools. But for this story, I think it would help to say "Mac OS X 10.4" instead of just "10.4". At least it had the "Apple: " part prefixing it.

FOSE floor photo gallery

Apple @ FOSE 2004

http://homepage.mac.com/blakespot/PhotoAlbum14.htm l [mac.com]

Going again today, will have a gallery of this year's FOSE up shortly. Stay tuned.

blakespot

Huh, I work like 3 or 4 blocks from there

I work no more than 15 minutes walk from there. I'm going to have to see if I can check it out over my lunch break. What luck, it seems like this kind of stuff only happens on the west coast.

OT, But ...

Has anyone else found FOSE to be less interesting this year and becoming less and less interesting each progressive year? I walked the floor in a little more than a couple of hours and really wasn't impressed with much. Even the DoD pavillion used the same "hanging soldiers" from the ceiling as last year. It seemed that some of the vendors were "calling it in" and there wasn't that much new and exciting to see.

[OT] FOSE? What's a FOSE?

Apparently, it's a guvmint acronym of some kind, or maybe it just plays one on tv, but what does it stand for? Federal Out of Software Experience? Friends of Software Excellently written by Bill? Frankly Overrated Software Engineers?

10.4

Cant wait for 10.4, I thought they were going to delay it until WWDC...

release date?

Well I preordered Tiger from Amazon.com ($35 mail-in rebate and another $30 off for getting an Amazon Visa, how could I say no at that price) and on my invoice the shipping date is "between May 31, 2005 and May 31, 2005"

The cat's out of the bag?

Automator is something!

An Apple rep at the show gave me a demo of Automator. I wasn't really groking the potential from their little demo [apple.com] which undersells both the power and ease of use.

In about a minute he created a script to download all the recent Images of the Day [nasa.gov] to a new folder and created a self-running slide show and album for them from iPhoto.

The possibilities for porn surfing boggle the mind.

Re:Any Comment on Release Date

The rep is the one that showed me the build number. In the classic, wink - wink, nudge - nudge, say no more - say no more, type fashion.

He was standing beside me when I clicked on the "About this Mac" option which showed the 10.4. I said out loud, "Cool it has Tiger!" He then took the mouse and did something to have the About This Mac box show the build number.

I'm sure someone out there knows how to show the build number with / instead of the version number. I don't remember if the version number was displaying at the same time as the build number after the rep. I just distinctly remember the build number and the big smile on his face.

Re:Any Comment on Release Date

I'm sure someone out there knows how to show the build number with / instead of the version number. I don't remember if the version number was displaying at the same time as the build number after the rep. I just distinctly remember the build number and the big smile on his face.

Just click on the version number in the About box, and it will switch to the build number; click again, and it'll display the serial number.

Re:Any Comment on Release Date

I believe it's the release version, it went GM about a week ago.

Re:Just speed up the GUI for christ's sake...

They did. Tiger introduces Quartz 2D Extreme. You just need a card that with fragment and vertex shading (aka DirectX 9 capable in the Windows world). Information about it here:

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/ 8300945231/m/886008328631/r/886008328631/ [arstechnica.com]

And don't knock Spotlight until you've tried it. You don't like instantaneous searching?

Re:Just speed up the GUI for christ's sake...

Wow. Easily one of the most uninformed comments I've ever seen. Setting aside for a minute the fact that "the GUI is slow" is not a meaningful comment, the phrase "expand Cocoa APIs to cover things like Quicktime and Web Objects" doesn't even make sense. Do you know what WebObjects is?

Re:Yey for Tiger!

Rich.

The features the summary is toting is the acceptance of more phones *specifically* in the *sync* solution in OS X. You can still *connect* with any phone over bluetooth just as easily as you can on Windows, and probably sync as well because an open standard (SyncML) is used.

Re:Just speed up the GUI for christ's sake...

Dashboard is crap...who wants a bunch of shit all over the screen

Dashboard is cool because it stops you from needing to have crap all over the screen. If you've ever seen someone regularly use Stickies.app you'd understand how Dashboard will reduce the crap they have lying around.