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Next iChat version to include Jabber support

Posted by CmdrTaco on Tue Sep 14, 2004 08:06 AM
from the behind-the-firewall dept.
OS X The Internet
SeaFox writes "A couple of stories about new features in the next version of Mac OS X have revealed that the new iChat 3.0 will include support for Jabber. With businesses able to host their own messaging servers behind the firewall and use it with Apple's included IM client, will this effect Jabber's overall share of the IM market?"
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  • What we really need (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Kokuyo (549451) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:09AM (#10244986)
    Is one IM client supporting all widely used standards while NOT taking 5 minutes to start up like my ICQ :). I'd be willing to pay money for such a thing.

    Is there an IM client that supports ICQ functions like server hosted friends lists? Preferrably one that is available under linux and windows.

  • Old news... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:09AM (#10244989)
    Quite some old news.

    This was very well covered in the first documentation released on MacOS X Server 10.4...
    • Server? by Allen Zadr (Score:1) Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:17AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Old news... by whfsdude (Score:1) Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:25AM

      • Re:Old news... (Score:5, Informative)

        by brass1 (30288) <SlrwKQpLrq1FMNO@SPAMwhat.net> on Tuesday September 14 2004, @09:33AM (#10245739)
        (http://www.what.net/)
        Actually they did. Apple, howerver, choose to be subtle about it. Here [apple.com]. And I quote:

        iChat Server. Host your own private and secure inside-the-firewall iChat server that uses your own namespace and works with both Tiger's iChat AV and popular Jabber clients available on Windows, Linux and PDAs.
        and:
        Your Very Own iChat and Blog Servers
        You can now host your own iChat server. Instant Messaging serves as a vital means of communication for organizations of all sizes, so it's useful to deploy and run your own private and secure IM server. Based on the open source Jabber project, the new iChat server in Tiger Server lets your company protect its internal communications by defining its own namespace, and use SSL/TLS encryption to ensure privacy. The iChat server works with both the iChat client in Mac OS X Tiger and popular open source clients available for Windows, Linux and even PDAs.

        This isn't a secret, and you don't have to be an "Apple Insider" to know about it, you just have to (carefully) read the language on their own website.
        [ Parent ]
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.

  • Sheesh, is Jabba getting Slashdot headlines now? (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:10AM (#10244999)
    Tell Jabba I'll have his money soon. And I shoot first, no CmdrTaco.

    -- Han
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.

  • Makes sense... (Score:5, Informative)

    by rgraham (199829) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:10AM (#10245001)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    Seeing has how the next version of Server [apple.com] is going to have a built-in Jabber/iChat/XMPP server (scroll down to the "Your Very Own iChat and Blog Servers" section).

  • This is good news (Score:5, Interesting)

    by grasshoppa (657393) <skennedyNO@SPAMtpno-co.org> on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:11AM (#10245011)
    (http://tpno-co.org/)
    Because the jabber specs ( and clients ) still need quite a bit more work. While we have a spec for file transfer through a nat'd environment, I have yet to play with a client that can do it effectively and seemlessly. Namely, because the protocol itself could use a little work.

    For example, instead of having some random, and unknown, jabber file proxy to enter in, why can't the server offer hints? Someone sets up a jabber server, they are likely to understand how to setup the file proxy needed for it, so have that in the config file as a hint of which proxy to use.

    Don't get me wrong, I love jabber, it's just not ready for "prime time", as it were. Although it's more than adequate for local lans where you dont want chat data going out over the internet.

  • ah yes well (Score:3, Informative)

    by Ravagin (100668) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:12AM (#10245019)
    (http://joe.sameperson.net/)
    will this effect Jabber's overall share of the IM market?

    more importantly, will it a ffect Jabber's overall share of the IM market?

  • Mind you... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by zaren (204877) <holdthis@mail.com> on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:13AM (#10245035)
    (http://www.cafepress.com/darwinos | Last Journal: Tuesday April 08 2003, @10:53PM)
    those "couple of stories" both come from a rumor site. Grain of salt, and all that... of course, if those stories suddenly go away after a Cupertino landshark sees them, they might be a bit more believable.

  • Jabber server as well (Score:5, Informative)

    by daveschroeder (516195) * <das@doit.wisc.LIONedu minus cat> on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:14AM (#10245041)
    (http://das.doit.wisc.edu/)
    Mac OS X Server 10.4 (Tiger Server) [apple.com] will also include an iChat/Jabber server.

    For those unaware, iChat has always used the Jabber protocols for its local (Rendezvous-initiated) messaging. This just dusts off and reveals full-fledged support for Jabber.

    Why Jabber [jabber.org]? Because Jabber is a completely open IM standard. The IETF has accepted the core Jabber protocols and has standardized them as XMPP [xmpp.org], an open IM protocol [jabber.org].

    • I forgot one of the neat things about the Jabber server:

      While an open IM application can be useful in a defined group or organization for messaging, obviously, a standalone IM application is of limited utility on its own if you're already communicating with people on other IM networks.

      This is why Jabber supports "transports" [jabber.org], server components that allow seamless connectivity with AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, MSN, SMS services, and even IRC..

      [ Parent ]

    • Re:Jabber server as well (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mitchell_pgh (536538) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:30AM (#10245193)
      This is another example of Apple using open standards to leverage their platform, and for that, one must applaud their efforts. Apple looks more like a friend of Linux and the Open Source community more and more as time goes on. Ways Apple Supports Open Standards: iCal (open file format), Safari (built on Open Source code), iTunes (uses open standards MP3 and AAC*), OS X (foundation is open), iChat (jabber support)... * - OK, not 100%, but better then others.
      [ Parent ]

      • Re:Jabber server as well (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Durandal64 (658649) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @10:50AM (#10246653)
        Apple is a good example of how businesses can maintain a proprietary business model, make money and still use open source software while not violating the spirit of open source. They integrate open source into their products and give their changes back to the community, and they make money from those products. So everyone ends up happy. It's worked out really well for them so far.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Jabber server as well by Sunnan (Score:2) Tuesday September 14 2004, @11:07AM

        • Re:Jabber server as well (Score:4, Informative)

          by Seanasy (21730) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @12:14PM (#10247588)
          We must applaud that Apple is using open standards for their own good? What's in it for us?

          Interopability. Future-proofing. Apple's contributions to the standard. Are you saying companies shouldn't be applauded for using standards? I'll applaud every time a company chooses an open standard over a proprietary model.

          More like the other way around - their contributions (while very welcome) are few and far between.

          As far as I can tell, they've given back every time they've taken. That's more than I can say for myself.

          iCal (open file format)
          But not open itself.
          Safari (built on Open Source code)
          But itself totally proprietary, except for WebCore, which is currently primarily usable for cocoa (e.g. proprietary) developers.

          So the apps are closed? OK, they're not totally 'Free.' Granted. But the ical format is open. You can write a better iCal and not have to do a damn thing to get the data in. Webcore can be used by open-source developers as well as proprietary developers. It's based on khtml (from KDE). They've given back. WebCore is Open [wms-network.de] (LGPL).

          iTunes protocol and code is proprietary.

          iTunes protocol? Do you mean DAAP [sourceforge.net]? Yes the app is closed but the tools are there to re-implement as you see fit. Even the iTunes Library is accessible as XML.

          OS X uses and relies on proprietary drivers (Broadcom, are you listening?).

          So go ahead write your own drivers [apple.com].

          iChat primarily uses AIM instead of Jabber.

          Did you miss what this post was about?

          [ Parent ]
    • Re:There's something bad about letting this happen by Paradise Pete (Score:1) Tuesday September 14 2004, @09:12AM
    • Re:There's something bad about letting this happen by ratlater (Score:1) Tuesday September 14 2004, @11:17AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.

  • jabber (Score:5, Informative)

    by minus_273 (174041) <`aaaaa' `at' `SPAM.yahoo.com'> on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:15AM (#10245057)
    (Last Journal: Wednesday May 16 2007, @12:43PM)
    i chat already uses jabber in the local im feature using rendezevous (sp?). that also removes the need for a central server since it uses rendezevous for discovery of other hosts.

  • Yet another reason I love Apple... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by keiferb (267153) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:17AM (#10245074)
    (http://valinor.net/)
    Jabber's slowly been infiltrating the office, and has proven itself to be really handy. It's nice to be able to keep your IM server on the friendly side of your firewall. iChat/OS X Server publicly and proudly supporting Jabber is a great step forward!

  • The question would be... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by adzoox (615327) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:18AM (#10245081)
    (Last Journal: Wednesday February 01 2006, @08:39AM)
    The question answered would be has iChat had any noticeable effect by AOL on AOL Instant Messenger membership.

    I would say it might have an effect on Jabber. Eventhough Apple has a small marketshare, it has a higher percent of that marketshare that are online.

  • But.... Mac to PC? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by leeet (543121) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:20AM (#10245101)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    Is there a way to do videoconference (or just audio conference) between a Mac and a PC? I haven't found a way yet....
  • And is mentioned on the Mac OS X Server 10.4 Tiger Preview page [apple.com]:
    New Services

    iChat Server. Host your own private and secure inside-the-firewall iChat server that uses your own namespace and works with both Tiger's iChat AV and popular Jabber clients available on Windows, Linux and PDAs.

    Additionally:
    Your Very Own iChat and Blog Servers

    You can now host your own iChat server. Instant Messaging serves as a vital means of communication for organizations of all sizes, so it's useful to deploy and run your own private and secure IM server. Based on the open source Jabber project, the new iChat server in Tiger Server lets your company protect its internal communications by defining its own namespace, and use SSL/TLS encryption to ensure privacy. The iChat server works with both the iChat client in Mac OS X Tiger and popular open source clients available for Windows, Linux and even PDAs.

    So, yes, we've known since WWDC that iChat will be able to speak to standard Jabber servers, mostly because Apple will be shipping a Jabber server with Tiger Server.

    There's a lot of cool stuff in Tiger Server, and that page is with checking out.

  • Video/audio chat? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:22AM (#10245115)
    Will this include support for video and audio chat?
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.

  • GPG support (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 0x0d0a (568518) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:23AM (#10245137)
    (Last Journal: Sunday October 03 2004, @04:03AM)
    Please, please, please include GPG support (a la gabber), Apple. Business have been wanting secure instant messaging for a long time -- I'd like it too.
    • Well... by Xenex (Score:3) Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:26AM

      • Re:Well... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Eythian (552130) <robin AT kallisti DOT net DOT nz> on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:58AM (#10245438)
        (http://www.kallisti.net.nz/)
        Not quite the same thing. Many (most?) Jabber clients already support SSL connections, but having GPG on top of that provides a different level of protection.

        SSL gives you client-server privacy, but the owner of the server can still see what is going on, and if the other party isn't using SSL then the messages will be going to them over plain text anyway. However, with GPG, then you have security between clients. The server owner can't read your messages.

        So SSL is good, but only half way there, adding GPG support is necessary for more complete privacy.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Well... by pavon (Score:2) Tuesday September 14 2004, @09:26AM
          • Re:Well... by Eythian (Score:2) Tuesday September 14 2004, @10:12PM
        • Re:Well... by r5t8i6y3 (Score:2) Tuesday September 14 2004, @09:36AM
          • Re:Well... by Eythian (Score:2) Tuesday September 14 2004, @10:17PM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:Well... by infinii (Score:1) Tuesday September 14 2004, @11:11AM
          • Re:Well... by 0x0d0a (Score:2) Tuesday September 14 2004, @11:20AM
      • Re:Well... by TVC15 (Score:1) Tuesday September 14 2004, @11:03AM
    • Re:GPG support by Alan Hicks (Score:2) Tuesday September 14 2004, @09:15AM
      • Re:GPG support by bgarland (Score:2) Tuesday September 14 2004, @10:54AM
        • Re:GPG support by Alan Hicks (Score:2) Tuesday September 14 2004, @11:16AM
      • Re:GPG support by OmniVector (Score:2) Tuesday September 14 2004, @11:18AM
      • Re:GPG support by Jord (Score:2) Tuesday September 14 2004, @12:57PM
    • It's Kerberized by alexhmit01 (Score:2) Tuesday September 14 2004, @09:33AM

  • Business users? (Score:1, Funny)

    by talieos (673224) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:26AM (#10245156)
    With businesses able to host their own messaging servers behind the firewall and use it with Apple's included IM client, will this effect Jabber's overall share of the IM market?

    Oh, definitely! In those businesses who are 100% Apple! Like Pixar, and, uh, Apple... :(

  • mmm, Open goodness (Score:5, Informative)

    by gobbo (567674) <wrewrite.gmail@com> on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:26AM (#10245159)
    (Last Journal: Saturday April 22 2006, @04:05AM)
    Apple continues to incorporate open software and strike that fine balance between the usefully proprietary (hardware, GUI) and interoperable standards. The MS dweebs that run the IT where I work keep frowning and scratching their heads when I explain that this or that new Apple implementations of free (beer/speech) software (zeroconf, LDAP, Apache, SSH, etc.) makes their lives easier and more secure. This just helps my arguments.

    Nice thing about Jabber is that it's decentralized and has so much room to be elaborated into some nifty applications that go way beyond text messaging. I was annoyed at Apple for nailing iChat so firmly to AIM, and now it looks like they're fulfilling some of the promise behind having a default chat client that isn't tied to an Apple network.

  • Jabber market share (Score:3, Interesting)

    by IGnatius T Foobar (4328) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:26AM (#10245161)
    (http://uncensored.citadel.org/ | Last Journal: Sunday November 23 2003, @03:10PM)
    This will certainly help with Jabber's market share and installed base.

    What I'd like to see, though, is a Google branded instant messenger service -- based on Jabber. This would really kick IM up to the next level, and maybe even pressure the other big three to make their systems interoperable, like Internet technologies are supposed to be.

  • Maybe Apple can make the damn thing configurable. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DrHogie (8093) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:28AM (#10245175)
    (http://drhogie.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday February 11 2003, @05:46PM)
    I've spent the last 3 days at my office attempting to install a Jabber server for internal use. What I want to do is very simple: I merely want to setup IM clients for 20-30 employees, and have their buddy lists controlled by the server itself, so when a new employee is added, all 20-30 existing employees don't have to add them.

    Sounds easy right? Obviously you've never used Jabber!

    The obvious place for support would appear to be http://jabber.org. But there's no support on that site. Well, maybe jabber.com! Nope, that's a corporate commercial Jabber site. Hmmm, maybe jabberstudio.org! After all, that's where the server software is hosted! Nope, not there either. They have a mailing list where 4-6 different people have asked for help on the same problem . . . and in true Open Source fashion, no one helped them, other than to say, "Well, I've setup a nifty Perl hack to fix that problem . . you just need these 4 libraries and then write your own XML commands.".

    Hopefully Apple will put their spit and polish on it and make it usable. In it's current state, Jabber's a pain in the ass to try and configure with absolutely zero documentation to help.

  • Planned for some time? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Swedentom (670978) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:30AM (#10245197)
    (http://tomasf.se/)
    I noticed, a while ago, that the iChat Agent (2.x) executable contains the string 'Jabbler' on a few places, so maybe this has been planned for some time?

    Nonetheless, this sounds great, and is probably going to give Jabber a significant usage boost. It's sure nice to see Apple support more open technologies.

  • Probably not (Score:2)

    by AbbyNormal (216235) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:32AM (#10245210)
    (http://www.everythingfreight.com/)
    It probably will not until all the major players allow for their clients to talk to other providers.
    Average computer user's will still use whatever client is installed on their desktop (AOL/MSN).

  • Helix (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Albanach (527650) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:32AM (#10245212)
    (http://albanach.com/)
    Does anyone know what the current state of play is with the Real / Helix funded extensions to Jabber that were supposed to be bringing voice / video to our favourite Instant messanger. I thought it was supposed to be released by now?
    • Re:Helix by infiniti99 (Score:3) Tuesday September 14 2004, @01:33PM

  • Mac + Business = share? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ziegast (168305) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:33AM (#10245217)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    With businesses able to host their own messaging servers behind the firewall and use it with Apple's included IM client, will this effect Jabber's overall share of the IM market?

    You assume that ther are enough "mac" computers in business to affect market share? Some companies are hip enough to use Macs in business. Many many many are not.

    If MozillaFireFoxBird had built-in support [mozillazine.org] for Jabber instead of having to download a special client, Jabber might find its way into more homes and businesses. Like the US economy, Mozilla is starting to gain some traction [slashdot.org].

  • No Effect (Score:4, Informative)

    by shking (125052) <babulicm&cuug,ab,ca> on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:46AM (#10245319)
    (http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~babulicm)
    "...will this effect Jabber's overall share of the IM market?"

    Since Jabber already has market share, this move by Apple will not Effect (verb: to create) a share for Jabber. However, including Jabber in iChat may Affect (verb: to influence) the market that already exists.

    OTOH - The Effect (noun: influence) of the ignorant substitution of inappropriate words Affects (verb: to influence) your ability to write clearly. Learn to the difference between english vowels, or you'll be condemned to confuse a cat with a cot (or Al with an eel)

  • whoops! (Score:2)

    by sammy baby (14909) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @08:58AM (#10245434)
    (Last Journal: Monday February 04 2002, @03:31PM)
    Okay, it's a minor snark: it should be "affect [m-w.com]," not "effect [m-w.com]," in the story writeup.

    Minor niggle. Keep up the otherwise good work.

  • effect? (Score:1)

    by Xetrov (267777) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @09:35AM (#10245763)
    will this effect Jabber's overall share of the IM market?

    Dunno... Might affect it though.

  • Jabber and ISPs (Score:2)

    by Midnight Thunder (17205) * on Tuesday September 14 2004, @09:39AM (#10245813)
    (http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Saturday February 05 2005, @03:50AM)
    At the moment we can't be certain what impact on Jabber's market share this will have. Hopefully help increase it and get people talking about it. If you have a friend who does not have a Jabber server then they can still use the central jabber.org server.

    If Apple's move has any impact, I wonder how long it would be before ISPs start providing Jabber servers.

    The only thing I have to wonder is if the jabber account being the same address as your e-mail address would increase e-mail spam?

  • It's about the iSight folks... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14 2004, @09:46AM (#10245875)
    It seems that with Apple's public comments about the enhanced iChat to ship with Tiger they are pushing greater adoption of iChat as a communication tool. With text chatting, file exchange, audio {with up to 10 participants} & video {with up to 4 participants} conferencing it seem logical.

    If Apple would develop the Windows counterpart of iChat and include it with the iSight, they would be able to further entrench QuickTime into the Windows market (I'm assuming that QuickTime is needed to pull off the multiparty audio & video conferencing) and offer their digital lifestyle solutions to the widest possible market.

  • offline messaging and WAN support (Score:1)

    by kfs27 (261031) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @10:00AM (#10246025)
    (http://www.kennysabarese.com/)
    does jabber allow for offline messaging in the ICQ sense... when they sign on the messages sent to them get shown...

    also can you open up this in tiger server to roll your own ichat network... or would it be LAN only. just wondering. but everyone can run their own networks and not be bothered by other services... at the cost of reiability of course

  • Encrypted memory! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by teridon (139550) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @11:01AM (#10246781)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    Meanwhile, additions to Tiger's [...] "Security" preference panes have unveiled [...] an option to encrypt memory when its being swapped to disk.

    Wow, that's paranoia! :) I guess Apple is taking pointers from Linux users. I found this script [spinics.net] to encrypt swap -- what other options are there under Linux? Windows?

  • IIRC kerberos as well. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jerkyjunkmail (590408) <jerkyjunkmail@ya ... 26o.com minus pi> on Tuesday September 14 2004, @11:51AM (#10247341)
    I vaguely remember when Tiger was anounced that they were also kerberizing it. so iChat and their server will be kerberized. It's pretty cool they have kerberized a lot of the stock services on OS X Server. I use OS X Server to host my personal mail and use Mail.app as the client. I really liked the no fuss procedure to get up and running with kerberized mail service. I've come to REALLY like and respect Kerberos. I never really took the time to set Kerberos up using a Linux or Solaris or BSD before but it motivated me to really learn how it works. I'ved added in some non mac hosts to the kerberos keytab(via the CLI. there's no GUI that I know of) now so I can ssh with no passwords entry to, at least so far, a linux, an OpenBSD, and a FreeBSD host. OpenBSD's lack of nss support is a bit of a bummera and damn Solaris is a bugger. I was thinking it might be cool to have OpenLDAP export a NIS map for the OpenBSD host but I haven't looked into it very closely yet.
    ok now that getting I'm off on a tangent I'll stop.

    jerky

  • Awesome. (Score:1)

    by mindstrm (20013) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @01:51PM (#10248659)
    This is exactly what iChat needs to get me to use it.

    Now they just need to make iChat AV compatable with Messenger & NetMeeting so the iSight can be more than a useless appendage unless everyone you want to chat with has a mac.

  • ubergroups.com (Score:1)

    by jimmyp9999 (813454) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @02:04PM (#10248818)

    We've been developing something along the lines of what a geek would dream Google IM to be like - ubergroups.com [ubergroups.com], a secure team-oriented IM/Blog web service. (Please check the service out, we're in beta, launching in October, and welcome your feedback!)

    We've chosen XMPP as the protocol of choice for our service because of the wide range of client software, and because it was easy for us to implement our own client and server software.

    Naturally this is great news for us since iChat is perhaps the nicest consumer IM interface out there. It gives us instant access to the entire deployed base of OS X users. Apple users are very interested in staying ahead of the curve and are early adopters of new technologies. It's very exciting to know that every Mac user will have a great experience with our service.

  • Minor nit (Score:2)

    by SJS (1851) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @02:51PM (#10249305)
    (http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~stremler | Last Journal: Wednesday September 26, @10:29PM)
    Perhaps "affect" was meant instead of "effect"?

  • multiple simultaneous jabber connections? (Score:2)

    by pohl (872) on Tuesday September 14 2004, @03:06PM (#10249445)
    (http://screaming.org/)
    The one feature that I'd love to see in any jabber client is the ability to have multiple, simultaneous jabber connections open at the same time. I have yet to find a jabber client that does this well, and I floated the idea to more than one. The reason that I'd like this feature is that I have one jabber id for communicating with my wife (on a public server) and another one for communicating with my coworkers (on a private jabber server inside the firewall.) Currently, I have to run two instances of Gabber and hope that they don't have an argument about config files and logs. No project seems to be willing to complicate the user interface by adding this feature, sadly.