Apple Introduces New G5 iMac 1595
peatbakke writes "Well, here it is. Looks like the rumors of computer+monitor combined into a sleek little case were true." It's mostly what you'd expect both design-wise and specwise. And I want it.
new icon! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:new icon! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:new icon! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Insightful)
I think this iMac is going to be a huge seller this year. They're as powerful as last year's G5 PowerMacs for a thousand dollar price difference. They also come bolted to nice LCD screens and have enough I/O (including optical audio out) to suit just about anybody.
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple's been pushing the "widescreen" aspect ratio for displays, so this is the shape they wanted, and designed around. It's the same shape as the 17" G4 iMac's.
If they made it a more traditional aspect ratio, there'd probably still be 3" along the bottom. They need that to fit some of the thicker components inside without making the whole enclosure more than 2" thick.
I find this design reminiscent of the original Macs, which had a similar screen-above-the-blank-area face.
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm very new to Mac...just got an older iBook 800Mhz G3 which I've gotten to dual boot with Gentoo Linux. I like the box...and I've enjoyed playing with OSX too...it is a LONG was from the old Mac days.
I've considered getting one of the last model iMacs for my Mom....from my tests on OSX, I think she'd be able to use it easier than the windows box I tried to put together for her. And I the the previous design would appeal to her too.
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Informative)
Unfortunately, I think they've pretty much sold out the previous generation iMacs, so I doubt that getting one of them is much of an option. And of course the G5 processor's going to be great.
Interesting that they went to 17" only. I wish they'd kept a 15" model at $999. This lack of low end is Apple's greatest problem with consumers. With HP and others packaging a computer, monitor and printer for $999, I think a $999 iMac with a nice LCD would make a very nice package for many, considering that you can buy printers for next to free nowadays.
D
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Interesting)
Pre OS X Macs were primarily popular in art oriented industries. With OS X, Macs have increasingly starting to be used as UNIX workstation and servers. You would have never imagined Apple becoming a substantial player in the UNIX cluster computing market five years ago, but things have change (the views of people on this site are evidence enough).
WIth this new image Apples design ethos has had to change too (how many of you would want a flower power iMac to administer your OS X network). If you look at all their current computers, they are very professional and minimalist, but at the same time ultra-slick. With the new iMac, as with the Powermac and Powerbook, the beauty is in the details. There is nothing obviously exciting about a PM or PB either. It's when you actually use one of these machines that you realize that they are actually aesthetically more appealing that Apples earlier more obvious designs.
Anyway, I think this new iMac fits in really well with the current Apple lineup. Its got plenty of power for the prosumer, and would look at home in a corporate or home environment. Here's to a job well done.
G4 iMacs at the Apple Store POS (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, and the "internet cafe" computers are also G4 iMacs. I also wonder if they're going to replace those. I think there are 16 of them. I think they should, in the interest of not getting people jazzed about a model you no longer sell.
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Funny)
As a member of the Intel R&D staff I can immagine the lynching I'm gonna get if this shows up on my desk, but gawd I want one!
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Insightful)
No, you just need to lock down the config tight enough so that can't happen
And who do you think is going to lock down the config for you, the security fairies? No, an expensive team of hardworking IT staff who are going to take away your admin rights to stop you from screwing up their company network with the latest virus ridden screen saver. You can't even connect a new MS PC to the internet these days without being 0wned in the time it takes you to make a coffee. Do we get these problems with Mac OS X, not in the 2 years I've been running it. And I've not had to lock it down, the default settings are already secure.
Btw, your sig is very offensive. Python & Ruby are excellent programming languages.
I disagree that locking down windows will work (Score:5, Informative)
I agree with you with this point. Apple historically has always been behind on the supply side. They never seem to be able to estimate demand or scale up when well when it rises, resulting in delayed orders. Its a shame.
No, you just need to lock down the config tight enough so that can't happen
We have an entire team of guys at our college that specialize in one and only thing. Windows PCs. Yet, they have trouble locking down the computer because Windows and Windows programmers have picked up alot of bad habits over the years. Allowing Limited Userby default to even write to the root of the C:\ drive, the root of Program Files, last but not least the root of the Windows directory. Even after locking down most things. Our computers where hit by NetSky.
Here is a short example C:\Program Files\Common Files\McNeel Shared\Teen Porn 16.jpg.pif has been deleted. C:\Program Files\Common Files\McNeel Shared\Virii Sourcecode.scr Found the W32/Netsky.c@MM virus !!! C:\Program Files\Common Files\McNeel Shared\Virii Sourcecode.scr has been deleted. C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Best Matrix Screensaver.scr Found the W32/Netsky.c@MM virus !!! C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Best Matrix Screensaver.scr has been deleted. C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\CDO\Best Matrix Screensaver.scr Found the W32/Netsky.c@MM virus !!! C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\CDO\Best Matrix Screensaver.scr has been deleted. C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\CDO\Dark Angels.pif
It just goes to show that the Windows OS is inherited from a single user system, and doesn't think about where and how a user can install malware and virii ..etc throughout the system, infecting other users. We've been using Unix and now Linux for the last 20 years and I've never as many problems on Windows on other
platforms like Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, Linux and Mac OSX.
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, it's all about market share! That's why all the web server worms and virii are written for Apache!
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Insightful)
Ignoring the apache/iis argument for a minute (Apache is really good software, but not all non-Microsoft software is so good), why haven't we seen 2-5% of viruses written for the Mac? People successfully write viruses for *Amigas* for goodness' sake, and where is their 95% market share?
When Oracle claimed that their system was unbreakable, it took less than a day for 3 different people to publish a score of exploits against it. Each new DRM system or web-application or console is cracked, just for the challenge of beating a security puzzle. Yet Apple-users have been claiming for years that they're invulnerable. That's not obscurity, that's red-rag-to-a-bull...
Apple's operating system seems to be shrugging-off all the attacks thrown at it, just as BSD itself is famous for doing...
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Insightful)
Take your basic Dimension 2400 ($680) and upgrade the OS from XP Home to Professional, upgrade the HD from 40 to 80GB, and the monitor to a basic 17" LCD and that computer costs $947.
The price is looking a lot closer now. And that's just to get the computer to a sensible corporate starter spec, I'm not even trying to match the iMac's superdrive or graphics card, or quality of components.
Re:Apple needs more configurability (Score:5, Insightful)
Cost-Justifying a Mac Client - it's doable. (Score:5, Informative)
If you have a lousy monitor left in a corner the PC is much cheaper than the Mac. But if you want your employees to survive without eyestrain you probably want to fix its lifespan at three years. This means replacing the monitor at the same time as the PC.
The cost of spyware and virus protection/removal solutions is about $50 per machine, plus $1,000-odd on the server level, plus about $100 per year per machine for roughly one technician hour a year of support.
Mac
Visits
Lifetime
Total
Cost/year... $279
PC
Visits
Spyware+AV Software... $100
Total
Cost per year: $333
If we add a cheap monitor for $100 it goes up to $366. But then you should really compare it to the $799 eMac, not the $1,299 iMac, which would actually increase Apple's advantage.
if we add a 17" LCD for $500 it goes up to $458.
Visits may be a gross underestimate. I've seen PCs messed up so badly that it's been cheaper to buy a new PC than to figure out what's wrong.
This doesn't even include the server-based AV software you should also buy.
See? The Mac isn't half bad when it comes to a reasonable cost perspective with all costs included. Not to mention that Apple Mail + iCal costs nothing, while Outlook + Exchange are obscenely expensive.
D
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe on a benchmark, but games (or any performance intensive app) are all about optimization.
Any game that comes out for the Mac will be at least somewhat optimized for what's currently available. For the casual gamer, the Mac has a reasonable selection of games and the new iMac will provide reasonable performance.
However, for the hardcore gamer, there's no arguing that you need a PC. That's where most of the game optimization goes (regardless of theoretical hardware performance), and that's where the bleeding edge graphics cards are available first.
With that in mind, I don't think the hardcore gaming market would be very profitable to Apple. Aside from convincing the game and graphics card developers to give Apple equal development (not gonna happen), then they would have to sell systems optimized for gaming. They already optimize for other high-end applications like video and audio production, and making the systems gamer-ready would just push the price higher. The alternative would be to offer gamer-specific models, but that would cost a lot more R&D for the hardware AND all the software (more hardware to support), and for what? A very small market that already has a bad impression of Macs.
Much better to go after the casual gamers. They may buy a Playstation instead, but any customers it gains will come 'for free' without a lot of extra development dollars.
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Insightful)
True, but that just means individual processes will be able to see a 64-bit address space. It won't actually make the G5 run any faster (in fact, 64-bit apps will probably be slightly slower because pointers will take up twice as much space in the caches).
Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Informative)
Just to nitpick, the original Mac had 128k. Six months later or so, they introduced the "Fat Mac" with 512k.
The inside layout is far better for an all-in-one. (Score:5, Informative)
Reminds me of the layout of my favourite pizzabox machines - just standing up
Re:The inside layout is far better for an all-in-o (Score:5, Informative)
Alternatively... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The inside layout is far better for an all-in-o (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Just wondering (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Just wondering (Score:4, Interesting)
Really, this is ingenious. This look builds off their strongest selling product in a way that encourages people satisfied with current offerings to branch out. And the price is right...$1300 is not that bad for a computer with a 17" flatscreen and a compact design. I'd say this thing has potential beyond even the original colored iMacs if they stress the key components: comparable performance and superior graphics with a smaller footprint, better service and few virus and spyware worries. Of course, they'll probably just do a commercial with Tobey Macguire or something, but marketed right, this could be a valuable product, one that could take the competition a while to clone.
Incidentally, Sony did the whole slim-LCD-PC thing a while back and sold it for about $400 more. It was a cool unit, but WAY bigger than this in both width and depth.
Re:Just wondering (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Just wondering (Score:5, Funny)
Ahh, but if it were to be in basic black, even the Amish would consider getting one.
Re:Just wondering (Score:4, Funny)
(Mmm... orange smoke...)
Failure mode? (Score:5, Informative)
In my experience, electrolytic capacitors, which have a liquid dialetric, tend to fail as this liquid migrates from one end of the capacitor to another. Inside they're built like a jelly roll, and all the jelly leaks to one end, changing the capacitance value and sometimes creating shorts.
I can see how heat might make this problem worse, but the biggest problem is gravity and the orientation of the capacitors. I don't know how many pieces of old equipment like video terminals I've "fixed" by having their users "put them to bed" by turning them upside down at the end of the day. These capacitors look like they're laid out horizontally, which I think will tend to make them last longer.
heat kills capacitors, and armchair engineering (Score:5, Interesting)
Electrolytic capacitors are very heat sensitive, if you "think about what it is"; it's a liquid-filled device. They're rated for a fixed lifetime, and that lifetime is a certain number of hours at a certain temperature. The "fixed lifetime" bit is why electrolytic capacitors are NEVER milspec-rated; they can't be. Tantalum capacitors are, but they're a)expensive b)take up more space c)expensive d)expensive.
The original poster you responded to was naive. For example- the capacitors could be high-temperature rated; the case will say so. I forget the ratings but 85 degrees C and 105 degrees C are coming to mind. The hour rating also varies drastically- you can buy some that will last 4-5 times longer than others. You can buy 'overvoltage' capacitors that are rated well above the voltage you'll be using(though they'll be larger). So on, etc. As previously mentioned, they could also be tantalum.
Furthermore, he/she/it seems to think heat will be a problem off the PSU. No doubt it uses convection, and notice the PSU is at the bottom of the machine, getting the coolest air? my G4 17" PB power supply brick runs fairly cool under normal use- and it has no venting, it's a solid plastic case. In fact, I just found it buried under my jacket on the rug- well insulated- and it's lukewarm. Charging the battery is another matter, but the G5 imac doesn't have one of those.
So, honestly, I think everyone is not giving Apple a chance on this one and engaging in a lot of slack-jawed armchair engineering. Given the potential for fire and whatnot, I'm sure Apple was very careful about thermal design. What I find more interesting is that none of the photos are real- they're very clearly CG mockups. 3-4 week delivery? Hahah. AHAHAHAHAHAH. AHAHAHAHAHAAH [collapses from heart attack from laughing fit].
Re:heat kills capacitors, and armchair engineering (Score:5, Informative)
-40 to 125 is industrial spec.
-50 to 150 is military spec.
Some companies/products differ from these (i.e. a lot of power ICs are designed for the 150 max in their industrial version), but those are the general guidelines.
Re:Failure mode? (Score:5, Interesting)
That said, I stand by my assertion that the capacitors aren't that thermally sensitive. By which I mean a reasonably chosen component isn't going to give out on you in one or two years just because it's near a PSU, unless the PSU and case are so badly designed that the capacitors are practically cooked. I'd guess the thing will be ready for the trash heap for other reasons before the capacitors become a serious issue.
WRT to the construction, I'll defer to your expertise. I have to confess that most of what I know about capacitors comes from the days of vacuum tubes -- seriously I remember building circuits on bakelite strips. But I do have a lot of experience with old and gimpy electronics. The orientation definitely makes a difference to capacitors. You can often resurrect old equipment by storing it upside down; the only components I can point to to explain this are the capacitors. What you say about capillary action makes sense though. I suspect what may happen in these cases is the capacitors have leaked and the quantity of liquid may be inadequate to ensure adequate coverage.
You can also somtimes get a little work out of a piece of equipment by giving it a carefully calibrated, sharp, rap. This I think jars the gimpy capacitors and bad connectors enough. I don't like to let other folks see me do this though because it gives them ideas and pretty soon you have smashed up equipment all over the place.
My experience is that connectors are a much worse problem than capacitors and a common source of flakiness, although you can often cure this temporarily by unplugging them and reseating them, without even cleaning.
Re:Just wondering (Score:5, Interesting)
It may just be possible that the apple guys intentionally built the thing for *low power consumption* which will translate to *low heat emission*, which means the thing might not run so darn hot that it burns itself out after all.
As I often failed to teach my high school hardware classes, more heat disspiation (fans) does not make a computer better (sort of like more Mhz didn't really mean more performance-- at least not linear increases). More fans just mean more noise.
Picture this if you will. I set up a computer lab in a round concrete room (echoes like crazy). I made the kids shut off all the Wintel boxen and hooked up an LTSP diskless workstation just to show them how much better it is NOT to have so much noise (the server was in the next room). Thing used like 30 watts, booted in no time, and made NO noise. The fucking kids couldn't comprehend that it was easier to get things done on this machine (KDE vs. Windows arguments ignored for this discussion-- they were using Netware-crippled windows so it's not like they could do anything but run Office/internet)
[Yes if you didn't notice, I'm comparing the guy who thinks the iMac will burn out to my high school students who thought computers have to be noisy.]
At least notice that the fans on the new iMac run at variable speeds, so after the thing's heated up for a while, they will kick in.
new imac (Score:5, Funny)
Cue all the comments about 5200 geforce not being enough -- it's not meant for that.
"They should have had a 2 gighz in there " - that would eat into the market above it.
It is for offices and for homes -
The criticisms are:
If you are going to make it like a TV... they should have gone all the way and put a TV tuner in there - this is the killer app to beat microsoft on and to complete the iLife suite. An Apple (with all the associated easiness) TV center with maybe a grey one for corporate use with no TV.
The other critcism is that they should have a place in their product line for a headless box, so that all the hackers can get their grubby paws onto it and innovate on OSX - but really that constitutes competition with their other product lines, and constitutes competition with their own software so they won't do it.
They are family centric, gamers (yeah yeah, apple gamers, oxymoron, kekeke) can up the ante to a dual g5...so the only criticism left is that there aren't many good (I know there are options, but not outstanding ones) TV tuner
I hope I've cleared up alot of the "OMG only a 5200 nvidia" bullshit here - that's not it's purpose. But if it's purpose is that lazy kind of home desktop, it should have TV. But perhaps apple is thinking ahead to a TCPIP broadband world and a movie service along the lines of iTunes (pixar distribution channel anyone?) - it does leave a gap in their product line though.
Oh, and as slashdot still hasn't posted this story I'll add the "Looks like they were trying to get the g5 into a tablet/laptop but didn't quite make it" joke, which goes hand in hand with the "omg no g5 laptops yet". Slashdot is so predictable.
Sidenote - IBM should bring out said headless box, black alu case like the NeXT with a single G5 in it clocked a 2gighz and a 100% linux compat mobo.... That would soon become a cult item I imagine - but apple would have a fit because it would encorage all the unix geeks on their platform to swap and it would encorage a strong user base of a ppc linux to get going. So, like I say, not going to happen. Actually, can someone enlighten the thread as to who *owns* the G5? Could IBM do this?
speculation/discourse.... check
questioning of realworld performance combined with gamer
joke...... check
omg look the graphs on game performance have no scale.... check..stfu you are boring me....
g5 hotness jokes..... check
256 mem ram not enough.... check
wistfully wanting some other company to release a headless apple because apple won't.... check
questioning of apple users sexual preferences.... check
raise question of one buttoned mouse..... maybe they have a one buttoned mouse by default because it forces their app/UI designers to be creative - let those that want two buttons have them... but let all apps be designed with only one in mind (remember that gnome desktop designers who are hiding everything and anying, even if it should be there - although I don't mind spatial atm, I can see it going too far). Let us hear the end of the one buttoned mouse whinging.......
and wait for it...."I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Mac fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of one of the new iMacs (a 1.6gighz G5 w/256 Megs of RAM) for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to another folder. 20 minutes. At home, on my Pentium Pro 200 running NT 4, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this Mac, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that."
exhausting most of the pointless cliched bullshit in a slashdot thread before it's begun.... priceless^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hprofit!!!
and hell, and I don't even own a fucking apple.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:new imac (Score:5, Insightful)
20-inch Apple Cinema Display: $1299 [apple.com].
From where I'm standing, it sounds like you're valuing the non-display parts of the iMac at $600 or less. Plenty of folks think Apple's stuff is overpriced, but that's pushing it a little bit, I think.
Re:new imac (Score:4, Insightful)
I mean, Apple advertises it as being widscreen (almost 16:9). So, why don't they go the extra step to put a tuner and video inputs (S-Video and Component).
If this thing had that, I could ditch my 17" LCD TV.
Re:new imac (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple couldn't include just an analog tuner. That would be a terrible idea. We're already in the second half of 2004; analog tuners will be junk in less than 30 months, well within the life-span of a computer like this.
In the UK (Score:5, Interesting)
adding a TV tuner would be a disaster. If you didn't have one already, you'd be forced by Law to buy a TV license with your new iMac whether you wanted to use it as a TV or not. This would add an extra £121 ($216.90) to the cost of your computer.
Most people don't buy a computer to watch TV on, so why should we pay extra for functionality we don't need?
Re:In the UK (Score:5, Interesting)
The only valid point you made was "using your tv just to play vidio games", and how many people are going to buy an iMac for that when they can get a real TV a hell of a lot cheaper. As for DVDs, a basic iMac can already do that without a TV tuner, so that's irrelevant.
In my entire life I've only ever met one person who's brought a TV (actually a huge plasma screen) for watching DVD's and playing games. My mate Paul. He had a running battle with TV Licensing to prove he didn't need to pay it. In the end he had to physically walk them round the house and show them he didn't have an external aerial, a portable aerial, or a satellite dish capable of receiving transmissions before they would leave him alone.
I hardly think that Apple are going to bundle a TV tuner so that a one in a million consumer like Paul will be happy, at the expense of adding extra cost.
Re:new imac (Score:5, Funny)
From Apple's iMac G5 pages.
The iMac G5 offers formidable built-in graphics capabilities. Like, for instance, the gorgeous widescreen display. Mac OS X version 10.3 "Panther," provides you with the world's most advanced -- and most graphics-savvy -- operating system. And then there's the NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra graphics processor with 64MB of DDR SDRAM. It's a combination that delivers unparalleled 2D and 3D graphics performance and an immersive, photorealistic gaming experience with three times the frame rate of previous-generation processors.
Ok, it is not a gaming box, but... Unparalleled 2D and 3D graphics performance with a GFFX 5200? That would be the day!
Yeah ok... (Score:5, Funny)
Perhaps you like this better:
The iMac G5 offers mediocre built-in graphics capabilities. Like, for instance, the so-so widescreen display. Mac OS X version 10.3 "Panther," provides you with the world's most mid-range -- and most graphics-using -- operating system. And then there's the NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra graphics processor with 64MB of DDR SDRAM. It's a combination that delivers middle-of-the-road 2D and 3D graphics performance and a semi-immersive, pixelated, and distorted gaming experience with half the frame rate of our professional systems.
Yeah, that makes me want to buy one. Hell, I'll buy two after that stunning writeup. Here's my credit card!!
Always remember that marketing people are SELLING product, and that by making a comparison to the last model, they can get away with saying things like "unparalleled performace"
Re:new imac (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple does not ship computers with more than one mouse button mostly because of this philosophical choice, but partly because doing so would give developers justification to require the use of more than one mouse button for their target market.
Incidentally, I hadn't realized how confusing the two button paradigm was until I got a mac and tried to learn Blender. Blender is a mess of multiple mouse clicks, metas, rolls, etc. It's a good program, but you really need the tutorial before you can even figure out where you are. This isn't good design...an interface that does not lend itself to exploration will go unexplored, and you might as well write for the command line at that point.
Re:new imac (Score:5, Insightful)
Compare Apples and dells (Score:5, Informative)
$1,299.00
17-inch widescreen LCD
1.6GHz PowerPC G5
512K L2 cache
533MHz frontside bus
256MB DDR400 SDRAM
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load Combo Drive
$1,499.00
17-inch widescreen LCD
1.8GHz PowerPC G5
512K L2 cache
600MHz frontside bus
256MB DDR400 SDRAM
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive
$1,899.00
20-inch widescreen LCD
1.8GHz PowerPC G5
512K L2 cache
600MHz frontside bus
256MB DDR400 SDRAM
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
160GB Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive
Dell Dimension 4600C Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor (2.80GHz, 533 FSB)
Operating System Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition WHXP
Memory 256MB Dual Channel shared DDR SDRAM at 333MHz
Monitors Dell Multifunction LCD TV/Monitor Selected Below TV [320-2913] 5
Video Cards Integrated Intel® Extreme Graphics 2 IV
Hard Drive 40GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive 40 [341-0836] 8
Floppy Drive and Additional Storage Devices No Floppy Drive Included NFD
Mouse Dell® 2-button scroll mouse SM
Network Interface Integrated 10/100 Ethernet IN
Modem 56K PCI Data/Fax Modem DFAX
CD or DVD Drive FREE UPGRADE! 24X CD-RW/ DVD Combo Drive
Dell W1700 LCD TV w/1 Yr Svc Qty 1
FREE Dell 720 Color Printer with 1 Yr Advanced Exchange Service Qty 1
TOTAL: $1,373.00
Re:Compare Apples and dells (Score:5, Informative)
Oh yeah? Well.. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Oh yeah? Well..(touche) (Score:5, Funny)
Apparently, you can.
Re:Compare Apples and dells (Score:5, Interesting)
Do the prices of macs typically fall after an initial release... or do they just stay a set price for quite a while?
Re:Compare Apples and dells (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Compare Apples and dells (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Compare Apples and dells (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Compare Apples and dells (Score:5, Insightful)
Speaking of which... doesn't the integrated video eat up 64MB of main system memory, meaning the Dell actually only has 192MB? Given that, and the iMac's better aesthetics and OS, and -- leaving PC/Mac partisanship aside -- I'd even call the iMac a better buy. The 20-incher should've gotten 512MB memory, though
Re:Compare Apples and dells (Score:5, Informative)
Not to knock your compare but since you specifically chose to compare to a Dell, I thought I'd bring it up.
long time coming (Score:4, Interesting)
they had something like this (along with a mac based on the tizio lamp, and a tablet mac)
too bad gateway got it to market a few years ago
Like in the movies... (Score:5, Funny)
Leave it to apple to spoil my bad action movie jokes...
Re:Like in the movies... (Score:5, Interesting)
Can I skip the monitor and get a G5 for $600, please?
Much sleeker than previous versions... (Score:5, Insightful)
It looks *extremely* slick, and I these would look so much better as the terminals in librarys and what have you, although probably way overkill.
And the one cord in the back is a far cry from my desk, lol.
Apple hate RAM. (Score:5, Interesting)
The old iMacs could hold 1GB. This one is about 10 times faster and maxes out at twice the memory. This is pretty poor. Why does apple insist on shipping systems with such little memory.
Also, why is the FSB at 1/3 of the clockspeed of the CPU, as opposed to 1/2?
Re:Apple hate RAM. (Score:5, Insightful)
As for the 2GB limit, this prevents the low end machines from cutting into the high end machines.
price, price, price (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd be willing to bet the FSB thing is also a cost saving measure, and perhaps a way to better differentiate their "pro" desktop line from the iMacs.
Re:Apple hate RAM. (Score:5, Insightful)
Although I agree 256MB is a bit stingy, what possible use could a home user have for more than 2GB or RAM?
Re:Apple hate RAM. (Score:5, Insightful)
How many people do you know who have more than 1GB of RAM in their home or office PCs? I could probably count them on one hand.
Your objection is noted, but pointless.
Impressive new addition (Score:4, Insightful)
The most amazing space-saving feature is that it holds it's own power supply in that thin enclosure, so no ugly power bricks sitting on your desk or floor. If I didn't already have a dual 2.5Ghz G5 coming, this would look pretty attractive.
Now you can all stop whining. . . (Score:5, Interesting)
As an aside, this weekend I called apple care to get my logic board on my G3 Ibook replaced for the third time. I wasn't pleased, and I asked for a new one. Guess what? They're shipping a new Ibook G4 1gz for me. That's service. Barring the fact that the hard ware was faulty, they really came through on this one. That's why I buy apple.
Re:Now you can all stop whining. . . (Score:5, Insightful)
You don't get the iApps with the Dell. Nor OS-X. Nor quality support.
You get XP Home and the rest is left up to you.
Re:Now you can all stop whining. . . (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Now you can all stop whining. . . (Score:5, Insightful)
Really? Since when did Dell start selling G5 machines running OSX?
It's easy to come out with any old crap when you pick and choose some specs (and completely ignore others). I'd like to see you come up with a comparable box from a top brand (which basically means IBM: I don't think anyone could mistake Dell for a quality brand!)
Try again if you like:
Up for the challenge?
Coverage from MacObserver (Score:5, Informative)
Paris 2004 - Live Coverage of Steve Jobs Keynote
3:00AM CDT, August 31st, 2004
[4:44 AM] We aren't sure that the unit shown on stage was an actual working unit. It may have been a body with a paper display covering it. We aren't sure, of course, but we wanted to make note of that. - posted by Bryan
[4:41 AM] We are seeing a video for the new iMac now. Apple is comparing it to the iPod, the way the music player sits in the Dock. Also, the video says "From the creator of the iPod," showing that Apple is trying to leverage the success of the music player. Jonathan Ive says it is "quiet and utterly serene" in the video. - posted by Bryan
[4:38 AM] US$1299 - 17" 256 MB RAM, Combo Drive, 80 GB drive, 64 MB video card. This compares to US$1799 for the old starting iMac.
US$1499 - 17", with 1.8 GHz.
US$1899 - 20" display (1680 x 1050), 2.2" thick, 1.8 GHz G5, 256 MB RAM, 160 GB drive, SuperDrive, and same 64 MB video card.
They will begin shipping in mid-September! - posted by Bryan
[4:37 AM] You can unscrew three screws, and the entire back comes off. The crowd loves it!
The G5 module, when looking at the back, is on the right side. There are three fans in the unit, and it is "quiet as a whisper." - posted by Bryan
[4:35 AM] SuperDrive. 1.8 GHz G5. 600 MHz frontside bus. 400 MHz DDR RAM, up to 2 GB. Serial ATA hard drives, AGP 8X graphic slots. The speakers are mounted on the bottom, so they reflect off the desk, up to the user. The keyboard will slide underneath the display when you are not using it.
There are three 5 USB (3 2.0, 2 1.1), two FireWire, a modem slot, Ethernet (10/100 Base-T), audio-in, audio-out, both headphone and optical), power button on the bottom. - posted by Bryan
[4:34 AM] "Everyone is ging to be asking "where does the computer go?"
All of the connectors are on the left side, all in a row. Again, the crowd is going wild. - posted by Bryan
[4:33 AM] It's white in color, and the crowd is going wild. It has a grey Apple logo on front. Everyhting fits together right behind the display. - posted by Bryan
[4:32 AM] It looks like just a Cinema Display with a DVD slot loader on right side towards the top. Aluminum foot. It's the world's thinest desktop computer, at less than 2" thick. - posted by Bryan
[4:31 AM] The iMac G5 demonstration has begun. - posted by Bryan
[4:31 AM] Apple has sold 7.5 million iMacs, which works out to2.38 per minute over six years. - posted by Bryan
[4:29 AM] The iChat demo ended with Bertrand Serlet video conferencing in. The crowd loved his brief conversation in French. - posted by Bryan
[4:20 AM] We're on to iChat now. The last time we saw such a demo, it included lots of people from around the world in Apple's very cool iChat AV update in Tiger. That does, of course, bring to mind the idea that perhaps will see a certain iCEO who is in northern California, and if we do, we might even see some new hardware... - posted by Bryan
[4:19 AM] Mr. Schiller has moved on to demonstrating the iLife suite. This is the same demo that we have seen before... - posted by Bryan
[4:09 AM] We've moved on to Dashboard, Apple's implementation of a Widget engine. - posted by Bryan
[4:05 AM] For those keeping score at home, the US Apple Store is now, and finally, offline. - posted by Bryan
[4:02 AM] Well, Mr. Schiller went on to a H.264 demo instead of the iMac. Go figure. Interestingly, he specifically did not mention any release dates for this new digital video technology.
From H.264, we are moving on to a demonstration of Safari RSS. - posted by Bryan
[3:54 AM] During Mr. Schiller's Spotlight demonstration, he "found" a document on his demo Mac called "New Products Demo." This will, undoubtedly, be the new iMac everyone is waiting to see.
[3:43 AM]
pretty close.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm disappointed... (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, Apple, I'm bored. The G4 iMac was a lot more interesting to look at than this machine. And design is what apple-addicts are really looking after.
Here's some nice examples for great iMac designs: http://www.mackompass.de/ [mackompass.de]
PLUS: no heating problems here? Picture from iside: http://forum.macnews.de/forum/show?mid=8894.1839.
Ports location (Score:4, Interesting)
Say you plug in a printer, a scanner, a digital camera dock, and iPod dock, some amplified speakers, your ethernet cable, perhaps the phone cable for faxing, and a firewire hard disk, that thing will have 8 cables just hanging there, on the side of the machine, with no support whatsoever. And since there's nothing below the connectors but thin air, what the user will see is a bunch of cables just hanging from the back of the machine. I'm no design engineering guru, but that wasn't too well thought-out, was it? Notice that all the photos are of the iMac with a bluetooth keyboard and mouse.
They should've put the connectors on the stand, near the bottom. Or in the middle of the screen, with a cable guide on the stand.
But as always, I'll wait to see one in person before passing a definitive judgement. I was wronged by the previous iMacs' pictures, this might be no different.
side-loading CD/DVD? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:side-loading CD/DVD? (Score:5, Interesting)
I feel sorta lackluster about this one, though. The tech specs are nice, and I'm glad that it's finally easier to get to the hard drive, but the design just looks too much like the Gateway Profile. I was hoping for something that looked similar to this and priced similarly, but consisted of a slim, 2U sized case that could directly attach to the back of the monitor (and was designed explicitly for that purpose), but could also be purchased stand-alone and used with another monitor. I know, I know, all that junk about cutting into margins and such, but a man can dream, right?
Re the horizontal drive: I don't remember anyone ever mentioning this, though I suppose it could've been cited. I've seen dozens of workstation-type cases going back at least 8 or 10 years, though, that used vertical mount optical drives, so I doubt that's an issue.
Jobs vs Physics (Score:5, Funny)
Sweet - here's my take (Score:5, Interesting)
I see they kept the PowerMac/iMac performance differential in part by using a 3x multiplier instead of the 2x that the PowerMacs use. That's OK - a 533 or 600 MHz FSB is still zippy.
The question I have is really about upgrades. Most importantly, can this model finally take an aftermarket internal Bluetooth module? All the previous versions only offer Bluetooth as a BTO option through the Apple Store online (except when it's standard equipment like on the PowerBooks). If you don't buy it at build time, you have to buy a 3rd party USB dongle. With access to the insides, that is now hopefully a thing of the past.
Will more VRAM be available as a BTO option? Right now, all 3 models ship with 64MB, and in my brief look online there did not appear to be an upgrade option. If the iMac is going to sell at all in the gaming market, there will probably need to be a 128MB option available. I wouldn't count on a better graphics processor, though, anytime soon. Apple likes to underpower the iMacs.
With this out there, will the eMac see a minor speedbump anytime soon? The two have traditionally had pretty much the same motherboard design - I don't expect a G5 eMac anytime soon, but maybe we'll get a 1.5 GHz G4 at some point now.
Most importantly, will normal human beings actually be able to buy these in stores anytime this year, or are we going to have to wait for the Tooth Fairy to deliver more G5 chips?
Re:Sweet - here's my take (Score:5, Informative)
That was an engineering choice more than a marketing choice, though of course it was dictated by both. The largest single source of heat in a Power Mac G5 is the system controller ASIC. Low-temperature G5-based systems must necessarily eliminate that source of BTU's.
Most importantly, can this model finally take an aftermarket internal Bluetooth module?
The internal Bluetooth module is available as a BTO option only.
Will more VRAM be available as a BTO option?
No. You'll get more VRAM in 6-8 months when the Rev. B machines are announced, just like always.
If the iMac is going to sell at all in the gaming market
The "gaming market?" Surely you jest.
With this out there, will the eMac see a minor speedbump anytime soon?
Odds are slim. That's a Motorola issue, not an Apple issue.
Most importantly, will normal human beings actually be able to buy these in stores anytime this year
Depends on where you live. If you live near an Apple Store, you'll be able to buy one this week. But you'd better get there fast.
Reasons to like the previous iMac design better (Score:4, Interesting)
With this model I can see the following problems:
1. You will now see a million wires coming out of the right side of the machine, hanging in mid-air and visible at all times.
2. All that white space at the bottom of the display makes it look like a waste of space (of course it's probably used for the internal electronics, but geez, couldn't they think of a better design?).
3. The display now only rotates in one single dimension (either tilts up or down) as opposed to the previous iMac multi-dimensions of fredom).
4. That base seems awefully inadecuate for so much weight on top of it. Seems like if it is very easy to drop the display sideways if you have a crouded desk and move things around a lot.
5. This design has been created before by the big guys (IBM and Compaq/HP I think had/have something similar), why not come up with something as cool as the iPod? (it's a shame they say on the website "from the creators of iPod" - if I was one of the iPod designers I'd be shamed...).
6. And how about a $999 model?
Re:Reasons to like the previous iMac design better (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Reasons to like the previous iMac design better (Score:5, Interesting)
2. Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize. Let's see you stuff all those electronics into a smaller space and still provide adequate cooling, Einstein.
3. The new design allows them to use larger displays than 20", the weight of which the arm on the old iMac would not physically support (this is straight from the mouth of an Apple engineer who was visiting my office a few weeks ago).
4. The Cinema Displays use the same base, and those are pretty damned stable. How much crap do you have on your desk?
5. The granddaddy of the thin, LCD-in-front, guts-in-back computer is the 20th Anniversary Mac, [apple-history.com] released in May 1997. Apple is updating their own old design, not copying current designs of competitors.
6. Yeah, yeah. If they were selling it for $2, there'd be some fool whining "I'd buy it, if it was $1.50!"
~Philly
Re:Reasons to like the previous iMac design better (Score:4, Insightful)
2. All that white space at the bottom makes it tie in to the eMac's look. They could have probably just centered the display but it looks better this way.
3. The display still rotates if you turn the entire unit. That arm was freakishly expensive ($300), would get loose after a while and was a pain in the ass to replace, if necessary. 4. I'm sure that anything will topple over if given enough of a push. Apple has more than likely looked into this and found this to be stable.
5. Errrr... it's hard to give a URL but if you go to apple.com and refresh enough, you'll see the profile shot of the iMac and iPod together. They look quite the same. Are you referring to the iMac's lack of a b&w LCD screen and scroll wheel?
6. They call it the eMac. Wait a year and the new iMacs will be refreshed to slightly cheaper/slightly faster.
Not an iMac at all! (Score:4, Funny)
Ok, now the machine is in the screen, where next? (Score:4, Funny)
The value of the 20" Cinema Display (Score:4, Interesting)
20" Cinema Display : $1299
20" G5 IMac : $1899
That's a lot of extra gear for $600.00, isn't it? So, is the iMac a great deal or the Cinema Display now less of one?
And to think I was thiiiis close to picking up a Cinema 20" for my Powerbook...
Powerbook G5 soon? (Score:5, Insightful)
Mac == Resale Value (Score:5, Insightful)
Take a look at a 1 year old Dell or IBM anything even servers and then take a look at a 1 year old Mac. The PC will be at least 50% less and the Mac will have dropped about $100.
After a year the PC becomes worthless and the Mac still has a good value. 2 yr old iMacs are still worth quite a bit of their original price, especially if they have the SuperDrive. How much is a 2 year old Dell worth?
When ever a person asks about buying a PC vs. a Mac that is the first thing I try to explane to them.
My idea for a killer iMac feature (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Nice (Score:5, Informative)
Re:weak video card (Score:4, Informative)
I don't think so - the top-of-the line powerbooks (15" and 17") should have enough horsepower for Doom 3 as well as the whole Powermac G5 family. Besides, the iMac family will certainly get another upgrade round before Doom 3 for Mac gets into beta phase. Half year would be a really optimistic estimate...
Re:Not Enthusiast Friendly (Score:4, Insightful)
After almost 10 years of Apple doing this,
you would think that people would get the concept.
Re:The End of Computer Design (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The End of Computer Design (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The End of Computer Design (Score:5, Insightful)
Greg, you've made a great point. At some point the computer will disappear, just like the flat screen TV: All that will remain is the experience of using it. I don't think such a development is so bad for Apple, as they have always been about the fusion of hardware and software into a unified experience.
I enjoy working with my PowerBook, and I enjoy using OS X. When I think about them. But most of the time, I'm not thinking about them; I'm simply being productive. I think that's what Apple products are about: getting stuff done, thinking about the problem at hand, not the computer that you're using to solve the problem. The drool-inducing industrial and UI design is there to as much to draw the attention of non-users as it is to enhance the experience of using -- and justify the purchase of -- Apple products.
But does it become more difficult to sell an experience when it has a less-tangible physical manifestation? This may be a problem for Apple, but it may also solve one of their problems: When there's less physicality to the experience of owning a Mac, perhaps there will be less resistance to purchasing one. The more invisible the hardware, the less difficult it may be for Apple to convince people to replace their invisible Gateway computer with an invisible Mac that works better.
Agreed (Score:4, Insightful)
In short its got no style. We have seen this lcd-all-in-one design before now its just happens to be a G5 inside. The previous Imac and things like the Cube were much more interesting. Maybe they'll offer Colored versions to spice it up? Too bad you can't buy the old version with a G5 in it.
Re:Apple Mouse (Score:4, Informative)
I used to have a 2 button + scroll wheel mouse -- simply plugged it in and it worked in every app I tried it in.
Now I use a Kensington Turbo Mouse with trackball, 4 buttons + scroll wheel. Works like a charm.