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Media (Apple) Media Communications Music

Apple, Motorola Plan An iTunes-Friendly Phone 305

Posted by timothy from the 12-songs-isn't-much-even-as-ringtones dept.
PabloJones writes "Apple and Motorola have come together to create a new mp3-enabled cell phone, according to this Reuters article. It says that the device will be capable of storing about 12 songs, and will be fully integrated with iTunes. Perhaps this is a beginning of a new relationship between the two companies, after the PowerPC problems between the two in recent years."
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Apple, Motorola Plan An iTunes-Friendly Phone More

Apple, Motorola Plan An iTunes-Friendly Phone

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  • Sounds Good... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Dozix007 ( 690662 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:14PM (#9808170)
    It sounds like a great idea, I have to say I have been wating for such a cellphone for a while. I do have a few potential issues though. Battery life and size. While the Palm Cell phones were cool, they would eat a battery in about an hour and were about as sleek as carrying a forty pound rock.
    • Sure, it sounds like a good idea now, but you won't be too happy when poor yields force Motorola to "roll back" the phones to hold only seven songs, just like Apple's 500MHz G4 fiasco.

    • Re:Sounds Good... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by cynic10508 ( 785816 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:53PM (#9808367) Journal

      It sounds like a great idea, I have to say I have been wating for such a cellphone for a while. I do have a few potential issues though. Battery life and size. While the Palm Cell phones were cool, they would eat a battery in about an hour and were about as sleek as carrying a forty pound rock.

      What would be really cool is if this was integrated with Bluetooth into a Motorola phone. Since my Powerbook has built-in Bluetooth the phone could then just stream from the Powerbook and use the 12-song space as a cache.

    • I'm pretty sure that Motorola would have a say in this, since they are developing the phones after all. ;) And since they do, the battery life should be absolutely awesome. My Motorola v400 phone's battery life is simply amazing -- I can charge it and leave it on for three days straight. I've never used an iPod though, but I hear the battery life isn't that good. I guess it's good that Apple isn't designing the phones then.

    • Re:Sounds Good... (Score:3, Informative)

      by OS24Ever ( 245667 ) *
      My Treo 300 would last a work day (6 - 9 hrs) with heavy phone use. DOn't know about the 600. But eating the battery in an hour is a bit of a stretch.

  • Uh, woo? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by i_am_syco ( 694486 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:14PM (#9808171)
    I thought that the whole reason Apple was winning because they weren't selling 12-song devices.

    • Re:Uh, woo? (Score:3, Funny)

      by Al Dimond ( 792444 )
      Hey, I'm not selling 12-song devices and I'm not winning... must be something else...

    • Re:Uh, woo? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by bedouin ( 248624 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:25PM (#9808227)
      Apple has nothing to lose from this, but a great deal to gain. There's people out there who don't know, or think they want an mp3 player -- this will get them hooked not only on the idea, but on Apple's intuitive interface. When it comes time to upgrade to something that can hold more than 12 songs, chances are they'll consider something iTunes compatible (i.e. an iPod).

      And even if it means no iPod sales, it still gives Apple stronger brand recognition.

      • Re:Uh, woo? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by GoofyBoy ( 44399 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:58PM (#9808391) Journal
        >Apple has nothing to lose from this, but a great deal to gain.

        Not sure what they have to gain from this.

        Half an iPod with an interface which I'm not sure how its going to work with a cell phone, doesn't sound like a strong product.

        And they have alot to lose. Its called watering down a brand-name.

        >There's people out there who don't know, or think they want an mp3 player

        So why would they buy it with a cell phone? Why not go for this nicer/cheaper/better cell phone?

        Apple should do the next step 100% with their iPod. No half PDA or half cellphone combos. Full working PDA/"Son of Newton" and a full blown iPod with a cellphone.

        • Re:Uh, woo? (Score:5, Interesting)

          by mewphobia ( 630153 ) on Tuesday July 27, 2004 @12:13AM (#9808673) Homepage
          Apple should do the next step 100% with their iPod. No half PDA or half cellphone combos. Full working PDA/"Son of Newton" and a full blown iPod with a cellphone.

          Apple isn't a stupid company. The PDA/cell phone market is already saturated. They would just be adding another competitor to an already saturated market. Creating a new cell phone isn't cheap. Apple doesn't like doing things in halves and the R&D cost for a new mobile phone would be huge.

          This decision is effectively getting more clients for their music store for very little R&D cost. They are just leveraging their platform as THE solution for online/mobile music.

          • Re:Uh, woo? (Score:4, Interesting)

            by AmericanInKiev ( 453362 ) on Tuesday July 27, 2004 @10:23AM (#9811907) Homepage
            The PDA/cell phone market is already saturated

            I would beg to differ. Sure there are some entrants - but there is not IMHO a great deal of variety in features or form factor.
            My suffeciently portable Audiovox/Verizon camera phone has the guts to do navigation, mp3, voice recording - but it does none of that.
            Models with features are too large.

            mp3 is an obvious feature, but personal communications should be extended - to near network applications, such as for use in meetings, voice conferances, and local data exchange.

            If I'm in an airport, why shouldn't my bluetooth phone display departure gates and delays?

            If i'm in court - why not scroll the transcription in real time?

            why not bus stops that beacon the bus schedule?

            In short - there is a world of information wanting to be real-time and personal. Creating large electronic displays everywhere is expensive and obnoxious - whereas bluetooth (WLAN) beacons can be very cheap and environmentally friendly.

            So I suggest the PDA/Phone market has a great distance to go before realizing its potential.

            The weakness of products now is largely a problem of vision, and permitting the industry to define its own features - for some services - we need a technology czar who will define the service - open the protocal, and set standards - it could be that free market economies only do SOME things better - say industry - but other things - such as ubiquitous connectivity very poorly.

            (Do I get extra points for rambling?)

            AIK

        • Re:Uh, woo? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by RedWizzard ( 192002 ) on Tuesday July 27, 2004 @12:22AM (#9808697)
          Not sure what they have to gain from this.
          Obviously sales via iTunes. Possibly increased iPod sales.
          Half an iPod with an interface which I'm not sure how its going to work with a cell phone, doesn't sound like a strong product.
          Yes it does. I don't have an iPod, I don't know that I want one and I'm not paying that sort of money to find out. But I'll probably upgrade my phone in the next year or so and an mp3 capable phone is something I'd be interested in (certainly more than the camera phones that sell so well). One album's worth of songs is a good start. If I find I want more I'll buy an iPod, then I'll have two devices that use iTunes, and I can have music without carting both phone and iPod around if I don't want to.
          And they have alot to lose. Its called watering down a brand-name.
          It won't be an Apple branded product, it'll just carry a version of iTunes. Nothing to lose, unless Apple are paying Motorola. You're not in marketing are you?
          So why would they buy it with a cell phone? Why not go for this nicer/cheaper/better cell phone?
          Because this is a phone+mp3 player, not just a phone. It's one less device to carry round. Cost is certainly an issue, but I'd be shocked if this phone cost more than a similar phone plus an iPod.
          Apple should do the next step 100% with their iPod. No half PDA or half cellphone combos. Full working PDA/"Son of Newton" and a full blown iPod with a cellphone.
          Not happening yet. Phones and PDAs have radically different screen size and input requirements. They've been tried and don't converge that well. Your combination device is going to be expensive and large and that'll put people off. It's also a much larger gamble for Apple.

        • Re:Uh, woo? (Score:4, Interesting)

          by AtomicBomb ( 173897 ) on Tuesday July 27, 2004 @12:50AM (#9808787) Homepage
          Many people pointed out battery life is one important factor. I would say the UI is another one. It is pretty to get a combo mobile/mp3 player right. It is inconveient to include a separate headphone, but dumb to listen to music as if you are talking to someone.

          If they can sort both things out, it will be a hot item on the market and I will want one too... Apple's involvement at least gives you some hope that they may get the UI right.
        • *So why would they buy it with a cell phone? Why not go for this nicer/cheaper/better cell phone?*

          the phone might very well be the cheaper one. storage for 12 tracks isn't exactly much anymore on a cellphone, i got a 256mb mmc in mine..

          and it's not like moto has to bet their company on that, all the phonemakers have started selling semi-niche products too(they call it segmenting. and in reality most of them just change the plastics over the phone when making a new model for another segment).

          now, should a

      • Re:Uh, woo? (Score:2, Troll)

        by dj245 ( 732906 )
        this will get them hooked not only on the idea, but on Apple's intuitive interface.

        Please, there is no such "intuitive" and there is nothing intuitive about Apples products. If you are used to the products of Apple, then yes, the controls will seem familiar to you. But they will not be intuitive. You will not have the knowledge of button placement encoded into your DNA. It will merely be consistent with expected behavior.

        If you were used to and familiar with another companies products, Apple's produc

        • Re:Uh, woo? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by bedouin ( 248624 ) on Tuesday July 27, 2004 @01:12AM (#9808856)
          If you were used to and familiar with another companies products, Apple's products would seem very strange and alien to you. They would not even be recognizable as a pattern at all, and certainly not an expected one.

          Dunno about that really. I wasn't a Mac user until 2002, but had OS X running to my likening within a few hours of taking the machine out of the box. I remember asking a friend a few questions, but 95% of it would be self-explanatory to anyone who's used a computer in the past 15 years.

          On the other hand, I can remember encountering huge hiccups just migrating from one Linux distribution to another, or even upgrading Windows. There is definitely such a thing as unintuitive design; I've encountered it numerous times.

          You will not have the knowledge of button placement encoded into your DNA

          No, but there are certain UI designs that are more sensible to known human tendencies than others; Apple's done a great deal of research on it, and I think it shows when my dad (whose new to mp3s and computers) can figure out how to use iTunes within a couple minutes without me standing over his shoulders.

          Please, there is no such "intuitive"

          Sure there is. It's doing things like putting the power switch to say -- a monitor on its front, not the back. It's taking into consideration what most people expect, as opposed to what's technically the easiest thing to implement (which, in some cases -- may be a power switch on the back). Just an example. There are plenty more.
          • Interestingly enough, I remember quite well an Apple monitor (about a 19" or so made in the mid-90s) with the power switch placed in the back. Near the middle of the back, to be precise.

            My, how technology has advanced in the area of human interaction...

        • Re:Uh, woo? (Score:4, Interesting)

          by OS24Ever ( 245667 ) * <trekkie@nomorestars.com> on Tuesday July 27, 2004 @06:28AM (#9809667) Homepage Journal
          Funny, my wife who had a hard time with Windows and getting outlook to run took 30 seconds to figure out her iMac when I got it in 2002.

          She had the iPod mini for 5 minutes and was completely enthralled. She'd burned half my spool of 100 CDs once she figured out the iTunes Music Store to the tune of about $130 worth of songs within four hours...

          This is coming from someone who had trouble turning on her Windows PC and only used it for virus laden email.

          So maybe you ought to rethink that statement? Maybe it should be 'people set in their ways don't find it intuitive' but defintitely not the people new to computers, you know, about 80% of the population of the planet.
    • They aren't selling 12-song devices themselves but I guess they can win by selling/licensing technology to companies that are doing that.
    • And in this case, Apple won't be selling a 12 song device, but will be licensing their iTunes-compatible software to a company who will use it in a phone.

      That said, it's still a fairly big move for Apple to start licensing their software to someone else since they are, traditionally, a hardware company. Not that this will hurt their market share in the way of iPods at all. However, it would likely mean more sales from the iTunes store, particularly if you can purchase and download directly from your phone.

  • 12 songs? does it play pong also? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nanojath ( 265940 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:19PM (#9808199) Homepage Journal
    12 songs? like an... album? what do they got in their, a hamster? it can't possibly be that hard to find somewhere to stuff a couple more MP3s in a cell phone. why so stingy?

    • Re:12 songs? does it play pong also? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Graff ( 532189 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:52PM (#9808364)
      12 songs? like an... album? what do they got in their, a hamster? it can't possibly be that hard to find somewhere to stuff a couple more MP3s in a cell phone. why so stingy?

      The poster of the story got it a bit wrong. It's not a dozen songs, it is dozenS of songs. [macworld.com] So think more like a couple of albums worth, not one album worth of songs.

      Remember that most songs will probably be full 128 kbit iTunes Music Store AAC files. Judging from the songs I've bought from the iTMS each song will take up around 3.5 MB so a dozen will take 42 MB. That adds up pretty quick. You could fit about 36 songs onto a 128 MB flash card, which sounds reasonable for a flash-based cell phone/MP3 player.

  • Why doesn't Apple just make this the iPhone (Score:5, Interesting)

    by adzoox ( 615327 ) * on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:20PM (#9808206) Journal
    I don't know why this couldn't be the iPhone. Co-branding is in Apple's past.

    Then again, one could read that this announcement came from Motorola's web site as an indication that it won't be the last deal with a phone manufacturer. Maybe the iPhone is just further down the road.

    Apple has done this before.

    The Quicktake 200 Camera was a Fuji DS7 camera - they were no different. The Apple Quicktake however used a better JPEG compression technology (read as quicktime) - that was especially developed for the Quicktake. Apple also created it's own system level camera reading and editting software.

    I think this could represent a possible new hardware direction and unlike many have suggested I think this DOES possibly mean an Iphone from Apple could be in the works. Except this time, unlike the iPod that is Windows and Mac; the iPhone will be for Macs ONLY, the Moto version will be for everyone else.

    Semi unrelated - a smaller footprint of iTunes would also be easier to emulate - possibly giving Linux a better shot at a quality iTunes solution.
    • I believe that in the past, Jobs has stated that Apple wouldn't make a phone, as it was not in their best interest. Maybe they're testing the waters, to eventually come out with the rumored iPhone, but I sort of doubt this.

      It's possible Apple is using this to promote the purchase of iPods. 12 songs isn't a hell of a lot, but these phones will most likely introduce even more people to iTMS, and when they are fed up with only having a handful songs on their phone, they'll spring for a new iPod.
    • Behold, the Cidco iPhone [orcon.net.nz]... circa 1998 technology... a phone with a web browser and email client included.

  • Looks like Apple learned a lesson... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Amiga Trombone ( 592952 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:21PM (#9808208)
    ...from their failure to license the Mac technology. This time around, their going to license their iPod technology to every Tom, Dick and Harry and establish it as an industry standard.

    Good for them!

  • Wow. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Eric_Cartman_South_P ( 594330 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:22PM (#9808214)
    The multi-million dollar cell-phone ringer market just SHIT ITS PANTS.

    *squirt* *plop*

    If people can pop some songs onto their phone, why pay a dollar or two for a 10 second clip that sounds like it was recorded on an 8-trak?

    hehe. Fuck'em.

    • Re:Wow. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by PabloJones ( 456560 )
      Yeah, it's truly a shame those satellite phones never took off... just think, you could have Musak beamed down to it when you needed to put someone on hold, and then people could listen to an instrumental version of "Walkin' on Sunshine" while you used the can.

      Hmmmm, well maybe that's not such a shame after all.

    • Re:Wow. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Lord_Dweomer ( 648696 )
      You bring up an interesting point. Now, a question. I am going to be purchasing a cell phone soon, and while I don't want to purchase songs to put on there, I have several mp3s of music I've created I'd like to put on there and use as ringtones. Can anybody recommend a phone that lets you put your own mp3s onto it?

      • Re:Wow. (Score:2, Informative)

        by Fuzion ( 261632 )
        I'm using the Motorola V220, it has a mini-usb connector, which you can connect directly to your computer, and download MP3s, images, etc. It only has 1.8MB or so of storage, so you have to re-encode your mp3s at a lower bitrate, and maybe crop it also, but overall it's not too bad. And it's got quad-band, a camera, and quite a few other features.

      • Re:Wow. (Score:2, Informative)

        by guiscard ( 712813 )

        The Nokia 6230 [nokia.com]. You can put up to a gig mmc [mobymemory.com] card into it (it comes with 32mb, I use a 512mb) and you have a nice little mp3 player. The Nokia headphones are terrible but you can mod [origin.mine.nu] them and use your own. I use a pair of Sony e888s and the sound is fantastic. Plus when you get a phone call you can patch it trough to the headphones and use the mic on the wire, the little button will switch to the next song otherwise. Plus you can use mp3s both as ringtones and as your alarm clock.

  • I'll Wait ... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by angrist ( 787928 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:23PM (#9808219)
    until I can get ALL the functionality of both devices in one package.

    With only 12 songs, I'd still need my iPod for real music needs. Will the phones have headphone jacks? I sure don't want to listen to music from a single crappy phone speaker.

    While this is a step in the right direction, it's not enough.
    When I can fully replace my iPod, cell phone, and PDA with one device, i'll buy.

  • 12 Songs? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MBCook ( 132727 ) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:24PM (#9808223) Homepage
    I can understand the appeal of holding a few MP3s on your cellphone (to a degree), but only 12 songs? Now Apple considders a song to be a 128 kbps AAC file 4 minutes long (off the bottom of the iPod tech spec page). So that means that this thing must hold 48 minutes of audio, 48mb of storage (since 128 kbps is about a meg a minute).

    First of all, the 48mb seems a little odd to me. I guess it's a 64mb device, with 16 used for the phone's OS/address book/ringtones/etc. But more importantly, why not make it hold 74 minutes of music. One full CD. I think that would be ideal for tiny storage. That would be 74mb, and if you include the 16 for the phone's other requirements you get 90 megs. That means that using 96 mb of memory on the phone, you could hold the OS and such, and 80 minutes of audio. Seems fantastic to me.

    That said, I have three other comments. First, how 'bout bluetooth so you can use your Bluetooth headset to listen to music? Second, will the memory be expandable? That would be great. Third, can you use your files (MP3, AAC, etc) as ringtones? Those would be three nice things.

    It will be interesting to see how all this pans out.

    • Re:12 Songs? (Score:2, Informative)

      by Doppler00 ( 534739 )
      I hope the phone has a SD/MMC slot in it. 256MB of memory can be found for less than $50 now. You should at least be able to store a couple or more CD's worth of music on the phone.

  • Press Release from Motorola (Score:5, Informative)

    by Saxton ( 34078 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:25PM (#9808228) Homepage
    Press Release from Motorola [motorola.com]

    Yes, I understand that might be considered karma whoring, but at least it's informative. Enjoy.

    -s4xton

  • On hold (Score:5, Interesting)

    by moberry ( 756963 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:25PM (#9808231)
    Now how freakin' cool would it be, when you put a freind on hold to take another call, poop, etc. It would play the music (in a somewhat reduced qaulity) like companies do when they put you on hold. just remember [slashdot.org] to properly liscense it.
    • somewhat reduced quality? Have you listened to the crap they play when they put you on hold? Pretty much anything in my music collection is going to be better quality than the cheesy muzak they normally put on there.....
      • somewhat reduced quality? Have you listened to the crap they play when they put you on hold? Pretty much anything in my music collection is going to be better quality than the cheesy muzak they normally put on there.....
        Watch it, buster :-)

        I was jamming to Dave Brubeck's album Time Out when I was on Apple's Customer Service line the other day.

        I admit it felt a bit geeky to actually have "hold music" in my music library :-p

    • Very cool. Next, record yourself talking, convert to MP3, and set that as the "hold music."

      "Okay, I'm back. Hah! Just kidding, just a recording. You're still on--hey, sorry about that, anyway as we were sayin--HAH! Tricked you again! You're on hold! You! Are! On! Hold! You're on hold! Hold! Hold! Lalala! You'--"
  • Of course we'll get iPod-phones someday. But I'm still waiting to be uploaded to a computer. All your data will be a thought away, not a click away. I've already started on the transhuman route (check my sig).

  • iPhone? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:27PM (#9808238) Homepage Journal
    The hell with an iTunes Moto phone - I want an Apple mobile phone. It's time for Apple to shake up the mobile device market again with a leap to something that competes with the Treo 600, with fancy HW and a UI so simple it's legal to use while driving. C'mon, Jobs - you've reinvented a better Walkman, now let's see you reinvent a better PC on top of that!
    • Apple mobile phone? I want one!

      Just take the contents of the iPod mini, throw in the circuitry of a mobile phone, and put it into a regular iPod case. Make the phone only work with headphones/headset. Now you've bundled a phone in the same space as an iPod.

      The iPhonePod would support iSync, which mean that the calendar and address book are automatically sync'ed along with music when it's docked.

      Subsequent models can possibly add better input-level functionality to this device for full PDA-level
      • If my Treo 600, with its hifi stereo headset, DSP and CDMA 1xRTT (bursty ~100Kbps Net connection) had a 10GB (+ whizzy Bluetooth or WiFi) SD card, total HW convergence would be here. But PalmOS, superior in PDA to WinCE or Symbian, isn't good enough. Until something like Apple revolutionizes a mobile GUI paradigm the way they have with the iPod, it won't be anything but a small all-in-1 desktop. That's not personal enough for me, or for the millions of people around the world I will want to communicate with
    • Running NewtonOS no doubt. :)

      OK, fine, running PalmOS. But please do it!! Of course, we all know Apple won't, because Jobs doesn't think Apple can rule the phone/pda market. The thing is, we all know that if Apple spent twenty minutes thinking about it, they could come up with a device that blows away what's out there. Treos are cool, but such things try to do too much and do it all in a mediocre manner. Apple could easily combine the simplicity of their interfaces with the tools required.

      Here's on

    • Steve Jobs has gone on record saying he won't enter the phone market or PDA market because he can't see any way to drastically improve it enough to completely pwn* the market.

      *That's not a typo
      • Jobs has also been on record saying things like "amazingly great" about a 68020 Mac and "wicked fast" about a Mac IIfx, as well as "goodbye forever, Apple". Times change, and Jobs changes with them. When he can, he changes them. An iPhone would be one of those times, if he times it right.
    • If Apple released a mobile phone or PDA unit, I would pick it up. Why? It's apple. It would, undoubtedly like the iPod, have seamless integration with my existing system(s) - PowerBook, lab equipment, etc.

      For the record, I have friends who will atest to the fact that I thought of this back six months ago (and a few saved conversations here and there, I think). :-p

      But seriously, if Apple were to cook up a Cell/PDA device, or even two seperate devices to fit those functions, I'd be very very interested in r
      • "But seriously, if Apple were to cook up a Cell/PDA device, or even two seperate devices to fit those functions, I'd be very very interested in replacing my old Palm VII and my LG 250 series black flip phone (20$ Verizon workhorse)."

        You need to check out the Treo 600 [palmone.com]

        Cheers
        VikingBrad

    • now let's see you reinvent a better PC on top of that!

      You mean like...the macintosh? :-)

  • if they allow too many (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:28PM (#9808241)
    songs on the phones, what's the point in buying an iPod?

    Quite sensible really, if they want to continue with the iPod, which I'm sure they do.
  • Hell must have fozen over, right after it broke loose!

    Well if we're lucky, the phones will be just about able to play songs encoded at 8Kbps speed. Of course when doing this the phones will be running hot as hell and you won't be able to hold or carry one... but don't worry, the next generation of phones will be able to play 9Kbps songs and will only be about 20 degrees hotter than the current ones when playing songs.

  • So...do you suppose the phone will be available in colors other than white?

  • Not that exciting (Score:4, Informative)

    by localekko ( 587362 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:39PM (#9808296) Homepage
    The Nokia 6230 [nokia.com] (and the forthcoming 6260) are somewhat more impressive, using interchangeable MMCs to store up to and above 128Mb of data. And I don't think iTunes compatibility is a great reason to endure such lousy storage capacity.

  • Why Motorola? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Dr. Mu ( 603661 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:45PM (#9808320)
    They're not exactly the hottest name in cellphones right now.

    • Re:Why Motorola? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by ev1lcanuck ( 718766 )
      Having owned a Nokia 3390, Motorola V66, and Samsung E105 and X105 within the past two years the Motorola was by far the best. The Nokia was terribly annoying, kept freezing and crashing, and was so poorly made it practically fell apart. The Samsungs are both just really, really frustrating to use. They're slow and the cutsey wutsey menus drive me nuts. I do, however, love the Motorola V66 and intend to use it until the day it dies. Then I'll replace it with another Motorola.

      Apple has a pretty good r

    • The Motorola V3 [engadget.com].
      Sex on wheels (or at least whatever the same saying is for a phone... Sex off wires!?)

      Seriously, the V3 is such a stylee phone (check out that Trek-like etched keypad) - Apple probably wished they'd designed it themselves.

      For the phone geeks: Titanium casing; Bluetooth; camera; 262,000 color QVGA (240x320) LCD. Drool!
  • I just see another device that doesn't need to be combined with a phone. I just want my phone to make calls and maybe sync contacts with my computer. Phone battery life barely lasts long enough for some days, even without all the fancy gadgets. Putting two good things together doesn't always make a better product. It's like the one Simpsons where Homer is eating out of a can and it says, "Gum and Nuts: Together at Last."

  • Battery life??? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by droopus ( 33472 ) * on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:46PM (#9808326)
    Um, my phone barely makes it through the day on its extended life battery. How the heck is it going to last all day if I use it as my music source as well?

    I might be alone, but I really prefer a Sidekick (or Blackberry, I spose...) for my net, email and PDA functions and my cell for phone calls and little else. Other than the occasional game of Jeopardy, I rarely use my cell for much besides a mobile phone.

  • Can you download over the phone? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by harlows_monkeys ( 106428 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @10:57PM (#9808389) Homepage
    A 12-song player is not all that exciting. However, if they make it so you can download songs to it over the phone, then it becomes a lot more interesting. Keep your collection on your home computer with your always-on broadband connection, and grab songs 12 at a time for playback on the phone.

  • Everyone is complaining about 12 songs already (Score:4, Interesting)

    by chia_monkey ( 593501 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @11:02PM (#9808413) Journal
    It's funny to see so many people griping about the 12 song capacity of the phone. Lets not forget all the cries of "why the hell would anyone want to buy an iPod when you can get something so much cheaper?" Then the iPod Mini came out and instead of griping about it competing against the product from another company, they cried "but who will buy this? Why not spend $50 more and get a full size iPod that holds so much more music?"

    C'mon people. Have faith in Apple. They seem to know what they're doing (finally...we'll just forget about the Cube...). When your son or daughter (who probably helped put the iPod Mini on the 25 year (slight exaggeration) waiting list is at the wireless store comparing phones, are they going to be looking at the phones that have no ring-tone options, crappy ring-tone options, or the cool new phone that plays music from iTunes (considering they probably already own an iPod and iPod Mini).

    I see a lot of "12 song only" complaints but I bet three months after release, this will be a wildly popular phone.

    • The Cube rocked... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by droopus ( 33472 ) *
      (finally...we'll just forget about the Cube...)

      I bought a Cube (500mhz) the day they came out (waited five months, but oh well.)

      It still sits on my wife's desk, working faithfully and silently, handling her little business and the house bills, along with her mail, browsing and Office stuff. It's 802.11b, and has never had a touch of trouble.

      It still gets compliments and "what the heck is that?" comments, and still will get $550-$600 on ebay.

      Nothing wrong with the Cube at all...people just wanted a
    • we'll just forget about the Cube

      The cube was a definite miss. Sadly it could have been a big hit, it was a great idea, a great machine. They just got the price point wrong (WAY wrong). It was a headless iMac and should have been priced that way, if it had been it would have been a huge hit.

  • Who can out cynic the cynics?! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by berniecase ( 20853 ) * on Monday July 26, 2004 @11:06PM (#9808435) Homepage Journal
    Welcome to Slashdot, Cynical haven.

    Remember, Slashdotters panned the iPod [mac.com] when it was introduced. They're doing exactly the same thing here. I really get a kick out of reading some of these braindead posts.

    Battery life!
    OGG!
    What? Only 12 songs?!
    It's not a Newton!
    Apple is dying!
    I won't buy it until it has X feature
    AAC sucks, X format r0x0rs yo!


    Okay okay, so some people are posting positive comments, but they seem to get lost in the pointless hand waving from the haters. Thanks everybody - In a years time, this phone will be a success and you'll STILL be bitching about not having OGG support on X device.

    • >In a years time, this phone will be a success

      Or in a years time, people will be saying how it was "ahead of its time" or "discontinued but still better than 99% of comparible product out there".

      And so the cycle begins.

  • Who cares? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by macosxaddict ( 559557 )
    What exactly are people supposed to use this for? 12 songs is 48 minutes. You're not going to connect it to your car and listen to it on the way to work. You're not going to hold the phone up to your ear for minutes at a time just so you can listen to some nice music (that is the same every time). It's way overkill for fancy ring tones. The speaker sucks, compared to the iPod earphones; it's designed for phone quality, not CD quality. Ever been confused whether you were listening to hold music on the phone

  • The "New" Motorola (Score:4, Informative)

    by stox ( 131684 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @11:08PM (#9808446) Homepage
    Two years ago, Chris Galvin was at the healm of Motorola, now it is Ed Zander. To say that the difference is night and day would still be an understatement. Ed Zander actually works for a living. The market knows this, and so does Apple.
  • After the way Apple treated Motorola during their time selling StarMax Mac clones, I'm much suprised that anyone at Motorola would even consider collaborating with Apple on a product again.

  • if only motorola make a phone that meets my needs (Score:5, Funny)

    by aardwolf204 ( 630780 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @11:27PM (#9808517)

    MP3 player with iTunes support

    Browser that supports WAP, HTML, Frames, Flash, Shockwave, Tabbed Browsing, and thumb-guestures

    8 MegaPixel camera with 6x optical zoom that takes SLR lenses

    Calander and contacts that syncs with microsoft exchange

    2.2" display with 65K colors and 480x640 resolution

    802.11g and bluetooth (that works) with kismet

    12 cell LiIon battery with 14 day standby and 6 hour talk time

    media player capable of playing MOV, MPG2,4, AVI (divx and xvid), RM, DVD,

    HDTV that syncs with your tivo, direct-tv, XP-MCE, or mythPC (sorry MyHTPC and freevo, not enough room in ROM)

    Direct TV connection with 400 channels

    Cheap custom ringtones that dont suck (no more paying 99 cents for a 50 cent ringtone)

    Vibrate, Pulsate, Ultra-Vibrate, and Orgasmobrate (for her pleasure)

    authentic TOS trek sound for when the clam shell flips open

    Walkie-Talkie function that be used without speakphone

    SDIO card for memory expansion

    4G 1MB/s internet connection

    RSS feeds on your "desktop"

    9 button thats not pre-programmed to 911

    full QWERTY thumbboard with touchpad

    VNC, TightVNC, and Terminal Services

    Vi, Emacs, Notepad, and that thing macs use

    Powerpoint support with included VGA dongle for presentations

    SMS, MMS, EMS, and PMS

    synchronization support for pop3, imap4, and active-sync

    drivers for linux (source included)

    dual boot mode with windows CE and linux (2.7)

    included sample cowboy neal ringtones

    j2me, perl, and C# support

    graphing calculator

    Included USB cable makes phone act as USB flash drive on any PC (w2k+)

    GPS with included geocaches

    ability to turn reciever into promiscuious mode with ethercap

    SSH (1,2) and Telnet clients that work!

    1GHz Transmeta processor

    Via Eden 600 MHz backup processor

    dual blue cold cathodes with case window

    Support for CD-R / RW, DVD-R-RW+R+RW-RAM, MMC, SD, CF, PCMCIA, and 5.25" (double density)

    Did I miss anything...

    Oh yeah, Phone. Maybe next revision, until then you can hook it up to your vonage [vonage.com] box.

    Ok, so I was only joking on a few of those things, but seriously some of these features need to be considered. I want an open platform phone that allows me to put RSS feeds on my "desktop" and can SSH and VNC into boxen (sp?)

    • A market of ONE.
    • Fergit that! Keynote, bud!
    • Seriously, if anyone can recommend a really good cell PHONE that would be kinda useful.

      Seems noone makes phones anymore, just PDA's with keys too small to use and a crappy phone in it.

      How about this for starters
      #1 Keys (only 12 please) I can actually dial with.
      #2 Talk time ~6 hours becasue some days just never end
      #3 Reception all over the city, not just within a mile of downtown.

      Oh, and small is not a "feature" it's a defect, see #2.

    • and (Score:3, Funny)

      by thatguywhoiam ( 524290 )
      Did I miss anything... Oh yeah, Phone.

      One more thing... you forgot Pony.

  • A matter of size.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by alphakappa ( 687189 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @11:28PM (#9808521) Homepage
    Anyone notice that the iPod mini is about the same size as a cellphone.. and if it can store 4Gb of music and smaller hard drives available/round the corner, there's no reason why we won't have a phone that can stores gigs of music. (and remember, the phone circuitry +RF is not really *that* space consuming.)
  • Apple's in the entertainment business now -- extending the reach of your service/content is what it's all about. First BMW, now Motorola -- who's next?

    It also makes me think that they're just testing the waters with this -- 12 songs is nothing. I'm thinking that data services (GPRS, etc.) fit in better with their business model -- especially with regard to syncing data. Also, 12 songs isn't a limitation if you have the data channel available to replace them at will -- a GPRS connection to your iDisk is all

  • iTMS Mobile (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Frogbeater ( 216054 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @11:36PM (#9808549) Homepage
    Why does no one mention the possibility that this implies the ability to download songs from the iTMS directly to the phone.

    A cell phone has the internet connection that the iPod lacks. The two can not be compared. Small capacity, yes, but I can download a song I want to hear RIGHT NOW.

    Having the iTMS in my pocket is a groundbreaking concept. Considering the number of songs they've sold from PCs, imagine how many songs they would sell if the store was in your pocket all the time!

  • Defenisve action (Score:5, Informative)

    by Johnny Mnemonic ( 176043 ) <mdinsmore.gmail@com> on Monday July 26, 2004 @11:51PM (#9808592) Homepage Journal

    There were some rumors that Apple would sue Motorola for breach of contract once Apple fully migrated to the IBM processor; I don't think that's happened 100% yet, but Apple's pretty close. The suit would've been based on the grounds that Moto didn't give Apple the year warning they were required to that they were going to end their desktop PPC chip, which necessitated Apple scrambling to find a replacement--originally, IBM didn't have a lot of interest in supplying Apple, and only bolted on the AltiVec co-processor at a later date.

    I strongly suspect that this relationship is related to terms to arise out of an out of court settlement between Moto and Apple--it's clearly no longer in Apple's interest to sue Moto, so this was worth something to Moto (if the suit had any merit; but it sounded like it may well have.)

    I don't know if it's better for Apple or for Moto to play iTMS music on Moto phones; but it does mean that QT is there instead of WMA, which is indeed worth something to Apple. My hunch is that Apple was awarded this privilege for free, and in return they'd drop the suit.
  • Samsung came out with an MP3 phone with 64 megs of storage (in the days when 128mb was considered large and 256mb unheard of) many years ago for Sprint, the Uproar. It never seemed to sell well even though it got pretty good reviews. The battery life was decent; 10 hours of playtime off a full charge, and the ring came over the headphones.

    Here's a link. [samsungtelecom.com]

  • Not just 12 songs (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Seeing as the E398 Motorola phone already supports removable flash card (seen ones that can hold 96 mb at least), I doubt that the proposed phone w/iTunes support will be limited to only 12 songs. At the standard 5 mb a song this is 20 songs. And in a year I'm sure that the flash-industry will figure out a way to cram more memory into the size-format.

  • Motorola is a giant company with compartmentalized divisions. I wouldn't be surprised if the cellular division doesn't even know the semiconductor division was involved with the PowerPC processor.

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