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Gentoo for Mac OS X Released
Posted by
Hemos
on Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:17 AM
from the continuing-the-growth dept.
from the continuing-the-growth dept.
joeljkp writes "According to today's Gentoo Weekly News, Gentoo has released a new project: Gentoo MacOS (sic). This new distribution adds Portage, Gentoo's package manager, to Mac OS X, among other things."
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Cool (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Cool (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cool (Score:5, Informative)
its called http://gentoox.shallax.com/ [shallax.com]
-Jonathan
Full Text (images already /.'ed) (Score:5, Informative)
-----------
"Apple, we have a problem" - Gentoo MacOS X Released
Figure 1.1: Derived from Apple's 'Redmond, we have a problem' campaign:
The Gentoo MacOS announcement
http://www.gentoo.org/images/gwn/200 40719_macos_pr oblem.png
Almost exactly one year after the idea of porting Portage to MacOS X came
up - and the joint Metapkg initiative[1] between Fink, Darwinports and
Gentoo took off - a 20-head-strong developer team around Pieter van den
Abeele[2] (strategic lead) and Daniel Ostrow[3] (operational) is now ready
to release an extraordinary beast into the wild: Gentoo MacOS. They
deliver on a promise no other Linux distribution has been daring enough to
make yet: Portage on MacOS is now fully operational, seamlessly integrated
as a package manager in a non-Linux operating system. It initially serves
the main purpose of an SDK for inclusion of new packages, testing and
patching. Granted, KDE isn't ported yet, but make no mistake: Gentoo MacOS
is ready for consumption by Macintosh users who want, say, scientific DTP
via TeX, something they will now be able to simply emerge in OS X just
like they'd do in Gentoo Linux."Right now it's a tool to install lots of
commonly requested applications on OS X", explains Pieter van den Abeele.
"But in a few months, we'll have a port system that builds Darwin from
scratch, provides a standardised lookup and installation routine for
Dashboard widgets[4], enhancements and tools like the Desktop Manager[5]
and many, many more popular OS X applications." Downloading the Gentoo
MacOS Installer provides users with a patched portage, its tree, and the
Python modules. It sets environment variables and demands a bootstrapping
shell script to be run before the first emerge that detects the operating
system (Panther or Tiger), chooses the relevant profiles and injects every
application it finds already installed in MacOS X.
1. http://www.metapkg.org
2. pvdabeel gentoo.org
3. dostrow gentoo.org
4. http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/dashboard.html
5. http://wsmanager.sourceforge.net/
Figure 1.2: Taming the Tiger with a double-click: The Gentoo MacOS
Installer
http://www.gentoo.org/images/gwn
Since Gentoo's own GCC ebuild for MacOS X isn't ready yet, compiling is
currently done using the Xcode development tools[6] which include GCC 3.3
provided by Apple. "People already on Tiger can experiment with GCC 3.5",
adds Pieter. Tiger, the new release of MacOS X, is due in 2005 with its
brandnew database filesystem Spotlight[7], modernised video services and
many other features. The Gentoo MacOS developers are busy polishing the
knobs (a Cocoa user interface is part of the plan), getting iSync[8]
integration to work (emerge an application on one machine, automatically
replicate onto all other Macs in a LAN), right down to making Catalyst
produce Darwin LiveCDs... "But first the cool stuff, then Darwin",
chuckles strategic lead Pieter. Even though his team is already larger
than the entire Gentoo Linux PPC developer group, they still train new
devs almost daily, and whoever wants to help with the project is very
welcome to get in touch. The public Wiki[9] holds installation
instructions and serves as a reporting tool for packages outside of
Portage that already compile without bombing out. The Gentoo MacOS
Installer can be downloaded from here[10].
6. http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/xcode.html
7. http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/spotlighttech.ht ml
8. http://www.apple.com/isync/
9. http://gentoo-wiki.com/Gentoo_MacOS
10. http://www.metadistribution.org/macos/
Full size (1024x768) screenshots of the Gentoo MacOS installation
procedure:
* Installer starts[11]
* Detection of OS version and installed software[12]
* Still busy injecting detected
Re:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.madstop.com)
But Spotlight is just indexing the same metadata that is in HFS+ under Jaguar, plus data that it pulls out of the file, not out of the filesystem. There is significant improvement in the mechanism and the interface, but it is not a "database filesystem."
As far as I can tell, that is incorrect; Dominic (the authoer of BeFS) has added additional metadata capabilities to HFS+, so Spotlight is actually 1) indexing that metadata, and 2) using interpreters to pull and index data from various file formats. See those post, for instance. [daringfireball.net] While I agree that this does not create a true database filesystem, I would say that it's close to what BeOS had, which is the closest anyone has come.
I must admit interest in MS's claim that they're going to create a true database filesystem; while it is obviously technically feasible, it's just as stupid now as it was years ago when Be decided to back off theirs. Thus, I expect MS to produce a solution that does what they said it would do while sucking so much that no one uses it. It will be interesting to watch.
As to the claim that Apple is just doing all front-end stuff while MS is actually doing technology, I call baloney on that one. Apple has been good recently at creating and then utilyzing really good technology (although it's usually protocols, not servers). All of the technology available via .Mac is available to everyone, even if the servers themselves aren't. I can (and did) create a WebDAV server to store and share my calendars, and I can mount this WebDAV server as a local filesystem. Rendezvous/Zeroconf is another good example of a tech that Apple has developed, championed, and then been a real leader on.
I agree that there are big differences, though: Spotlight is based on proven technology and will surely arrive in 2005, while WinFS is a huge gamble, will increase costs dramatically (both licensing and maintenance), and will also arrive no earlier than 2006, without actually being based on proven tech at all. If their history is anything to go by, it will be 2010 or so before WinFS is usable.
Re:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (Score:4, Informative)
(http://www.littleblur.com/ | Last Journal: Saturday November 24, @01:52PM)
Repeat once again: WinFS is NOT a filesystem ! (Score:4, Informative)
(http://sirius.cine7.net/)
I read this occasionally on
I went to a mini-conference by a ms evangelist, and he repeated it many times.
I'd be more interested in what Reiser4 does with metadata, it seems much more interesting than a mere additionnal layer.
Server, we have a problem (Score:4, Funny)
I see that it's a catchy headline, but ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Yea, and? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yea, and? (Score:5, Funny)
(http://lavincolindo.net/ | Last Journal: Friday January 20 2006, @05:50PM)
Re:Yea, and? (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, this one can compile the packages from source. Oh wait, Fink already does that...Yeah, how does this really differ from the Fink project, other than being based on Gentoo's portage system?
Re:Yea, and? (Score:5, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Wednesday November 21, @10:04AM)
Re:Yea, and? (Score:5, Informative)
First, there are a quite a bunch of advanced build options in Portage that are not available under Fink (see
Fink is nice, but its package tree is smaller and less up to date than Portage is. Besides, nobody will prevent you from having both.
Apart from Portage, Gentoo offers multiple system management facilities. I don't know if these will be ported, but things like rc-update (init script management) and java-config really help.
Finally, I think that what will set Gentoo-MacOS apart from Fink is the number of developper and community size. That is something that cannot be duplicated.
emerge karmawhore (Score:5, Interesting)
I've only been using linux for a few months and gentoo for a week or so but I already see how well produced it is. I used to get annoyed at gentoo zealots, but I see what they were talking about.
Oh, and the compiling software isn't that bad. I've spent more time searching for packages and dependecies than typing "emerge k3b". Don't believe all the hype of course, but don't believe the FUD either. Gentoo is where it's at!
Now to make this a little more on-topic, I'm happy that gentoo is trying to make more headway into apple hardware. I think that this will only encourage apple to help and contribute to the OSS community even more. MacOS is probably the most refined modern operating system, but giving it a little more competition can't hurt.
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:4, Funny)
(http://www.trollz.com/)
I mean, different stroke for different folks, certainly. But gentoo's strenth is its' ability to squeeze 0.0008 percent more processing power out of your 2.4ghz computer; not ease of use or installation. That arena is where (imho) mandrake really shines.
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, that is not Gentoo's primary strength. Its strength is from the amount of flexibility that portage provides for package dependency. With binary-oriented distributions, you are forced to use the same configuration settings that were chosen by the package maintainer. Portage has the concept of "USES", which is basically a list of flags that the build uses to figure out what options to use during compilation. For example, many packages can be integrated with GNOME. I don't use GNOME. With other distributions, if the package was built with GNOME dependencies, I'd be forced to install GNOME. If the package was built without GNOME, some GNOME user wouldn't be able to take advantage of GNOME-specific features. With Portage, you can specify via the USES variable whether or not you want to have a dependancy on GNOME or not. As a side effect, you get the CPU-optimization "for free".
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:4, Funny)
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:5, Interesting)
Compared to a couple days to get the same results with Gentoo, which is an outstanding distro, but not the distro to break Linux onto the mainstream desktop. Any casual PC user who has built a gaming PC or even tinkered around with his Dell could get Mandrake up and usable in less than an hour, Gentoo however is another story. Of course Gentoo wasn't aimed at that market, but the parent poster can't possibly paint Gentoo as easy to install and not expect some rebuttals.
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.biglumber.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday September 18, @12:25PM)
Linux has changed a lot since 1957. I'm tellin' ya, these fully automated compilers are the shit!!
Cool! (Score:1)
(http://joe-baldwin.net/ | Last Journal: Saturday September 02 2006, @11:58AM)
Gentoo MacOS? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Gentoo MacOS? (Score:5, Informative)
(http://arc.nucapt.northwestern.edu/F/OSS)
No--this isn't an OS (gentoo has run on the Mac hardware for sometime). Rather it is a native OS X port of portage and other gentoo utilities. It would be like calling cygwin "cygwin" (in other words Cygnus + GNU on windows).
Am I missing something? (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://moofie.lastcoolnameleft.com/)
"Right now, you can use it to install TeX! Someday, you might be able to install some other stuff!"
I mean, I suppose this is kool and the gang, but what is the problem that is being solved here? Maybe I'm just not clear on the concept.
In case you don't get it. (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://w1xer.de/ | Last Journal: Saturday September 09 2006, @05:55AM)
This means (sorta, as in 'soon') that a Mac-user will be able to rebuild their own OSX box, using the Gentoo scripts, and still be able to maintain compatability with all OSX apps.
In other words, a 'better build system: a public one' has been unleashed on a commercial operating system, so that - separate from the company itself - alternative builds of the OS can be done, publically.
Why is this good? Because with Gentoo you can take personal risks that Apple can't. Gentoo allows you to build a system "Just for You", whereas Apple have to compile/link things "For Everyone".
Expect to see highly-tuned Gentoo boxes running GentooMacOS in the future, smokin' 'Factory OS' setups. I'll be digging into this a bit further, next point release sort of thing, and if I get the same results out of applying Gentoo to my OSX machine as I have with my Linux boxes, I'm excited. I may man I can put off a hardware upgrade or two and just 'Take Things To The Next Level' on my aging Powerbook...
Oh, and in case you think Apple should be 'worried about' this, it seems to me that they already get the point. With all the OS releases they've been doing lately, and the upgrades/improvements in the one area 'open source' is lacking: usability, and it seems to me that they're positioned well to be 'competing with the Open Source Base'
I don't think you get it (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://shinza.com/)
Who would want a Mac without Quartz, Spotlight, etc? I certainly wouldn't give up these features. But some people might want to use alternate desktop managers on Apple hardware. Just because you're not interested in doing so doesn't mean there is no reason for others to want to.
Besides, you don't necessarily have to forgo the Finder and Exposé to use Gentoo MacOS. It's a package manager, and as such can install a bunch of *nix tools that work alongside Mac OS X without replacing it.
My Only Question (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://slashdot.org/)
Resistance is Futile (Score:2, Interesting)
how's its hygiene? (Score:5, Interesting)
Does Gentoo MacOS do the same thing? If not, why not????
Re:how's its hygiene? (Score:4, Interesting)
If it turns out that Gentoo/MacOS does install to a stupid non-standard directory, I'm going to be very unhappy.
Ah...But... (Score:2, Funny)
mirrors? (Score:1)
Some Explination (Score:1)
Specific questions.... Is there a seperate tree for MacOS X w/ apps known to compile correctly on it ? (As in different from the x86 tree)
Is there a shiny gui to go w/ ? (We mac users just love our guis)
What on God's green earth is emerge ?
etc.
Thanks in Advance.
Can you boot Darwin with GRUB on x86? (Score:1, Offtopic)
Partially working for solaris too (Score:4, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Monday March 10 2003, @12:51AM)
Just something I've toyed around with. The major stumbling block is that the developers need to add the ability for portage to recognize other oses. Mine isn't really a complete project, more of a log of stuff I've done. Others have followed and managed to get things like KDE to fully install in solaris using portage.
perfect (Score:1)
Yes, this is very exciting. emerge world me, baby.
but... (Score:1)
(http://www.allegedlyuber.com/)
What is Gentoo? (Score:1)
PNG, JPG, TIFF, BMP (Score:2)
(http://www.reanimality.com/)
What the hell is with the incessant use of PNG for large images on web sites if they are massive in file size, and take too damn long to download, for those of us who aren't on 1.5ADSL or Cable?
I'm dyin' to hear about the Open-Sourceness of PNG and adopting its usage because of this blah, blah, blah.
Either make PNG compress graphics better than JPEG or don't use it is my solution.
It's not that damn hard to put a black backdrop on your JPEG and throw it up at about 1/6th the file size.
Besides the only large image files worth downloading aren't computer Icons, but are of the female persuasion (I don't speak for homosexuals but I'm sure they can adjust my statement accordingly).
oh GOD yes!!!! (Score:2)
(http://homepage.mac.com/mikemunson/)
What the hell is Gentoo?! (Score:1)
Utterly pointless (Score:2)
(http://www.smtps.net/)
Fink is a port of apt-get, which is basically a knock-off of FreeBSD's ports system. Portage is just a more modern knock-off of Ports. Why are you trying to port Linux copies instead of just using the real thing (which is already designed for BSD systems). Oh wait, such a thing exists already (DarwinPorts) and, unlike Fink, it actually works well and most of the packages are up to date. I tried to get nmap and other libpcap-dependent apps to install on 10.3.3 with Fink for weeks until I gave up and tried DarwinPorts--then they all worked on the first try (and had much more recent versions).
Never mind, lets muddle things up Linux-style, because every n00b knows that 101 low-grade options to choose from is much more l33+ than 3 solid options ("I use Slack/RH/MDK/SuSE/Gentoo/Lin------/Foonix/Barix/L
There's a reason I use OS X rather than Linux for my desktop... let me try to remember... oh yes, I've got it: BECAUSE IT'S NOT BLOODY LINUX!!!
That's why the Metapkg Alliance was formed (Score:4, Informative)
(http://shinza.com/)
Re:OK, so... (Score:5, Funny)
Oh the, err for want of a better word, 'Humanity'! (Score:5, Funny)
(http://127.0.0.1:82/ | Last Journal: Monday September 26 2005, @01:53PM)
All idiotic zealtory of Gentoo with all the, well, mindless zealotry of Mac! A winning combination!
Re:OK, so... (Score:1, Interesting)
-02 -mcpu=7450 -pipe -maltivec -mabi=altivec -mpowerpc-gfxopt -fsigned-char -mstring -mmultiple
Re:Fink? (Score:5, Informative)
(http://shinza.com/)
Portage seems to have several advantages over the other package management tools, including the following summary from the Portage manual [gentoo.org]:
Re:I think you already can (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Tuesday December 12 2006, @07:54PM)
It's called GentooX. A simple google would have shown that. It's not just LIKE Gentoo, it *is* gentoo.
Re:make sense? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Yes! Finally! Optimized MacOS! (Score:5, Funny)
See ya in 6 months.
Re:Let's get it straight... (Score:5, Insightful)
Is someone twisting your arm to install OSS stuff?
mod parent up (Score:2)
(http://www.david-reitter.com/)
Re:Let's get it straight... (Score:5, Funny)
(http://bfelger.net/)
And I WANT a Ferrari Testarossa that gets 40 miles to the gallon. AND I want laser beams on the hood! Clear enough?
Re:OK, so... (Score:4, Insightful)
Why did you bother posting? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Why would you install Linux on a Mac? (Score:2, Informative)
personally i am canning fink as soon as i can get this damn dmg downloaded
Re:Why would you install Linux on a Mac? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Yes now you can have a bastarized OS (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Package management and OS X (Score:3, Informative)
However, it gives you the option of having just as nice of a package management system and a huge list of open source tools that *aren't* available with a nice GUI as well. It's the best of both worlds, with no requirement of dealing with either. *That's* what's so exciting.
Re:I like gentoo... (Score:2)
(http://www.pobox.com/~meta/ | Last Journal: Sunday February 29 2004, @09:19AM)
2. Turn down the verbosity, often my system would spend most of its time scrolling the screen...
Re:Yes now you can have a bastarized OS (Score:1)
Re:Stupid Mac user question (Score:2)
Re:Stupid Mac user question (Score:1)
Re:Package management and OS X (Score:1)
(Last Journal: Saturday April 12 2003, @10:13AM)
Sometimes the OSS crowd is YOUR system administator and must respond to YOUR needs and make their work look like magic. You want one-click installations while they must ensure you are running safe, reliable software.
The portage/Darwin scenario allows an administrator to see the code you will be running, customize it as necessary, build it and potentially make a Next-Next-Next-Finish DMG-based installer for YOU. The Apple package format appears to be open and is thus scriptable.
Win-Win.
M.