Apple Extended Keyboard Lives Again

An anonymous reader writes "For all of you that have wanted a firm keyboard (like in the old days with mechanical keyswitches) Matias has released the tactilepro keyboard. This keyboard uses the same mechanical keyswitches used in the Apple Extended Keyboard. Alps was going to scrap the keyswitches, so he had to commit to buy 1 million of them. Here's a great review by Adam Engst." It looks absolutely great, and it's only $100 (though apparently backordered until late April).

Can you type faster on those?

FIRST POST!?!!? I really enjoyed these keyboards... But are they really worth that much money? Think of all the ramen noodles I could buy...

Think: NORTHGATE!

These are the same switches used in the old Northgate Omnikey keyboards. They last forever, and they feel fucking great. A little noisy, similar to the old IBM PC keyboards, but you really do type better when you have auditory feedback.

You can use these with a PC as well. If you've got a KVM to switch between PC and Mac, now's the time to finally use a Mac keyboard instead of a PC one. :)

Re:Think: NORTHGATE!

If you've got a KVM to switch between PC and Mac, now's the time to finally use a Mac keyboard instead of a PC one.

I have Linux, Windows, and Mac OSX on one (Mac-targetted) keyboard and I have to say it sucks because of the option/alt mapping. On my my Mac, I want the 3rd key from the bottom left to act as command (it does since it's a Mac keyboard), but under Linux/Windows I want it to map to Alt (which it doesn't; the 2nd key does).

On Linux, the interplay between X and my window manager makes for a mess of an xmodmap file that kinda works for some of the uses of alt. On Windows, I have no idea how to remap keys. I don't use it much so I deal with the awkwardness.

On a Mac, just get uControl and click a couple of buttons, and you can remap easily.

So, I would recommend a PC-oriented keyboard in a multi-OS setting. It's just easier to make a Mac deal with it than it is the other way around.

-h3

Re:Think: NORTHGATE!

You can use these with a PC as well. If you've got a KVM to switch between PC and Mac, now's the time to finally use a Mac keyboard instead of a PC one. :)

Alternately, check out the Fujitsu 4725 [accelerated.ca] (which for some reason appears to be a distinctly Canadian thing).

I've got one, it's beautiful. Based on the IBM Model M technology, which I think Fujitsu licensed or acquired somehow. PS/2 only, which means you need a PS2/USB adapter for it to work with most Macs, but the clickyclicky is very worth it, and unlike the keyboard in the article, it's not backordered and about half the price.

(Stay the hell away from the Fujitsu 8725, it's model number suggests that it's better, but it's actually a cheap, horribly mushy piece of garbage)

Seems Promising

It seems like a great value, and has a feature I actually wrote with pen on my old one (the special characters) Although its cheaper to get a ADB adapter, I think I would purchase one of these before then. But I'm broke.

And I do feel like I type faster on that keyboard, but that might be poor memory.

oh... and ep!

Keyboards are important

Using my keyboard about 2000 hours per year, I've come to realize the difference between a really good one and a really cheap one. I used a PFU Happy Hacking mini keyboard for 5 years with no problems until it finally started to give out last year. I tried some cheaper brands when I switched from Linux to OS X since PFU didn't make a board with USB plugs. I noticed a couple months ago that there are now mac-compatible Happy Hacking keyboards with extra USB plugs, so I got one immediately. No regrets. This one reviewed here is beautiful.

Looks just like the Apple Pro Keyboard

From the photos, this looks just like an Apple Pro Keyboard without the Apple symbol on the COMMAND keys.

How am I supposed to make a buying decision?

If the difference is in the engineering, perhaps they need to show some examples of this premium key switch versus some others. I need a way of understanding what the heck is so great about this keyboard.

I would most easy part with my money if they produced a "dust free" keyboard. Don't look too closely!

Re:Looks just like the Apple Pro Keyboard

The problem is that the difference is all in the feel. The fact that they last so long doesn't really matter.

They assume that the people buying the keyboard had (or at least typed on) one of the old ADB keyboards and remember how much they liked them.

Evolution of Apple's Three-Finger-Salute sequence

Ah yes, the open- and closed-apple keys. Introduced on the Apple IIe, generated the same signals as button 1 and button 2 on joysticks and paddles. Control-OpenApple-Reset restarted the machine, Control-ClosedApple-Reset put it into self test mode. (Encountered a problem a user had where Control-Reset would always cause a reboot. Turned out to be a stuck button on the joystick.)

Morphed into Command and Option on the Apple IIgs which used an ADB keyboard but with Control next to the A and Caps Lock small and below the Shift key. (Nowadays keyboards for computers are arranged more for typing than for programming; if it weren't for Windows, the Control may have gone away entirely by now.) The Reset key lost its label. Command and Option were still the same game I/O button signals. Forced reboot became Control-Command-Reset.

Macs came to call Reset the Power key, as pressing it would cause the computer to power up unlike the IIgs, but they still had the triangle symbol as the IIgs used. The restart sequence became known as Control-Command-Power. Eventually morphed into a power button with the c- symbol on its back. Then it vanished from the keyboard entirely.

What three-finger-salute does one use to force a reboot from the keyboard now?

news?

While the tactilepro is a very cool keyboard. This story is a little late, I'm looking at an ad for one in my old December 2003 Macworld. Nevertheless, Matias deserves support, the one downside to the Mac is you can't go pick up and old keyboard at flee market that the seller doesn't know the value of. As soon as I can afford it I'm going to buy one. Although by that time I may need to buy a ergonomic keyboard. This Kensington Keybord-in-a-box is killing me.

Re:news?

Have you ever considered taking your Kensington Keyboard out of the box? I imagine it might feel better that way.

Kensington Studioboard

Kensington has been selling a $90 keyboard like this for about a year now called the Studioboard -- in fact, it looks identical to the tactilepro keyboard, save that Kensington doesn't put the option and shift-option symbols on the keys. (I'm not sure whether the information value of that truly outweighs the clutter, but I know that's awfully subjective.)

I don't know whether Kensington uses the Alps switches, too, but I wouldn't be surprised if both of these keyboards are actually OEMed by the same company. It looks like Matias has just done a much better job of promotion than Kensington did. I've had one of the Studioboards for nearly six months now (I bought it when I bought my G5, a purchase in a moment of weakness at the Panther release party--10% off! Now it's only overpriced! Shiny!) and it's been great so far.

Re:Kensington Studioboard

Blatant karma whoring alert!

Here's the product page for this keyboard: link [kensington.com].

But... the noise...

If they'd found a way to provide the same feel as the AEK but with little noise, I might've thought it worth it to buy it. As it is, I value quiet more than feel, since I don't have any issues with my APK. Still, if I find one in existence to demo, maybe I'd give it a try. Those old keyboards were pretty sweet.

Favorite kbds

Personally, my favorite keyboard was always the old fashioned metal keyboard that looks like this one [att.net]. It could take a major beating, but the keys had such a nice action that I could really fly on it. I've seen some clones for pc's now, but they sure are pricey...

My other favorite was a natural style PC Concepts keyboard with the built in touchpad. I'd love to have one just like that again only with all the fancy extra buttons you see on keyboards now. I refuse to buy a Microsoft one since they can't even adhere to standards in a simple keyboard layout and the 6 is on the wrong side. I just can't get used to that. Hell, I don't feel like I should *have* to get used to it anyway!

Wow!

$100? I'd rather stick with my IBM Model M (the old clicky clacky keyboard) which only cost me $20 at a junk store. Now if there was only a way to get an Apple Key on it!

Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is

I'm sorry, but I guess I just don't get it. What is special about this keyboard?

Re:Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is

Apple, back in the ADB days, produced several keyboards for systems. There was a small keyboard that lacked function keys and had the escape key placed just right of the space bar, this was called the "Apple keyboard II". It was a very nice keyboard for use on servers or in tight quarters, there's almost no extra frame around the keys and the thing is very small and light. The sort of thing people would purchase today as an add-on keyboard for a laptop.
There was also a behemoth of a keyboard called "Apple Extended Keyboard", which included a full set of function keys (F1 - F15), two complete sets of modifier keys (control, option, command, shift), had a full set of navigation keys (home, end, ins, etc) and a proper layout for the directional arrows, and there were LEDs to display the status of caps and the other "locks". The ergonomics were improved with a 4 step incline adjustment and lots of spacing between sets of keys (function, alpha/num, numpad, nav, arrows). Basically the extended keyboard was a 101 key PC style keyboard built to Apple standards, and like a tank.

The extended keyboard has a very distinct feel, there is a significant amount of travel in the keys, so your fingers actually have to move to press them down and it's difficult to accidentally press a key without being difficult to hit the one you intend. Since the key switches are mechanical, there's a satisfying tactile response when you move the key and the switch connects, you can feel and hear that you are typing a character. This may not mean much to the people that "hunt and peck", but for touch typests, there's a rythm to typing and many times you can tell when you've messed something up just by listening to the rythym of the keys.

I should note that the extended keyboard is large, is has almost an inch of plastic around the left bottom and right of the keys, and several inches at the top where you could place templates for the function keys for different applications. It also weighs almost as much as am iBook.

I love the extended keyboard, and when I get my G5, I'll also be getting a USB-ADB adapter so I can use the extended keyboard on the new machine. I don't like the lightweight, light touch, short stroke keyboards Apple ships with the current systems, not at all.

They're freakin' huge, man!

There was also a behemoth of a keyboard called "Apple Extended Keyboard"...

I believe that one had an internal codename of Nimitz, as in aircraft carrier.

I think I've still got one or two in a closet (with F-Key template overlay!), if anybody really needs one. I've also still got a few of the original square ADB mice in there scratching at the walls.

Re:Not sure what an Extended Keyboard is

Mainly the feel of using it. The "extended" in the name refers to the fact that it's a full 105-key keyboard [yimg.com] (Apple used to also make a smaller keyboard [yimg.com] lacking the page up/down, extra command/option and F keys, IIRC usually sold with the SE and LC computers), so in that regard it's nothing special compared to a standard PC keyboard.

But the actual use of it was great, because of the tactile feedback (the keys sort of clicked just at the moment the input actually was sent -- sounds trivial, but on more modern computers it's a little lacking) and the audible "click" the keys made was also nice to have as an audible feedback (if you're transcribing texts and can't look at the screen, that's helpful).

So it's a lot of little stuff. Not something for everyone -- I sure as hell wouldn't go so far as to shell out $90 for it, and am satisfied with my current Apple USB keyboard with the G5 -- but some people really need that.

I do like the additional labels on the keys, though -- something that's sorely lacking on Apple's newer keyboards (especially the non-US ones).

My question is, does it come in non-American layouts? From what I saw on the site and article, there was no mention of other layouts at all. (The physical layout is usually the same, just the keys are rearranged and in some cases labelled differently for special characters.)

Cheers,

Ethelred

It's a subjective evaluation.

Not to take anything away from the Matias keyboard, but the current Apple keyboard is entirely satisfactory. Besides having a decent feel (the keys have a nice detent that provides tactile feedback), it's easy to clean on the top, and doesn't collect hair or other debris below its circuit board. Costs about half what the Matias keyboard costs, as well. No, you can't adjust the tilt as you could with the Extended Keyboard and the Extended Keyboard II, but I never used that facility anyway.

On one hand, having used every Mac keyboard dating back to that of the original Mac 128k, I feel I should know. But on the other hand, having endured six years of some of the worst Apple keyboard designs ever (beginning with the original iMac), perhaps anything is an improvement.

Sun keyboard

There is another option for an excellent keyboard with the Alt/Command keys in the right place for a Mac user: a Sun keyboard.
I am typing this on a Sun Microsystem's Type 6 USB keyboard, Item-number #320-1271. You can order one at the Sun Store for $60:

http://store.sun.com/CMTemplate/CEServlet?process= SunStore&cmdViewProduct_CP&boxid=%2523320-1271 [sun.com]
or apparently here [amessciences.com] for $40.

You can even use the extra keys on Linux. [uni-passau.de]
Here's a picture. [lucksnet.or.jp]

Only $100?

I saw these keyboards on sale at Dr. Bott a long time ago and honestly the cost threw me for a loop. $100 is way too much for any keyboard, even a bluetooth one, which this is not.

This may be a very nice keyboard, but to me, it can't be $100 worth of nice. I'm personally eyeing an iceKey to replace my pro keyboard. The only reason I haven't bought one is that $50 seems a bit much for a keyboard.

Saying "only" $100 doesn't make any sense, it's the most expensive keyboard I've ever encountered.

Question re: Spring Technologies

How do these Alps keyswitches differ from the buckling leaf spring ones that you can get on, say, the models from PCKeyboard.com [yahoo.com]?

Regardless, if I had a Mac I'd buy one of those suckers in a second. I desperately miss the old clickety-clack of the Keyboards of Ancient Past. :(

Got them in Dvorak?

Even though I'm a PC user, this article makes me look down at my old-ish Toshiba keyboard and wonder.

Does anybody know of a company that makes really high quality Dvorak keyboards?

A high quality PC keyboard?

Looking at this story makes me realise that I need a new keyboard, but I'm using a PC -- are there any PC keyboards "built like a tank" that I could pick up brand new too?

Awesome, indeed!

I have one of these keyboards -- the feel is awesome and it lets me type VERY quickly with few errors. The only downside is the noise. I sometimes have to mute audio iChat while typing because the clackity-clack makes conversation impossible.

I had a problem with the keyboard about a month after the purchase -- it had a "5" and an "a" key that would sometimes double-up or not fire. Like Adam says in his review, this isn't uncommon at the beginning of the product's life. And the customer service at Matias didn't ask any questions and provided an RMA quickly.

In fact, using the Apple Pro keyboard while it's out for an exchange, is really hard now. It feels INCREDIBLY soft.

So, in spite of some problem keys, I highly recommend this product.

And to those cheap bastards who are saying: "$100 WTF?" -- ask yourself these questions: "How much time in a year do you spend at this keyboard? Is it worth a quarter a day to have a nice input device?" A comfy chair and keyboard are essential to my work environment.

-ch

Now if only

they could make the keys partly translucent and add a backlight...

Apple needs to

figure out a way to get the keyboards they use on their TiBooks into a desktop style keyboard. After getting used to typing on this keyboards I can't stand using any other keyboard.

Seriously

Could I get this and have it work on my PC? Having the two extra USB plugs, as well as the 'wet' look of the keyboard would be sweet! I'm serious! I want one for my PC! Is it 'Plug and Play' compatible?

Neato!

They did an amazing job of making the keyboard look like a current Apple Pro Keyboard. It looks, at least from the pictures, just like the keyboard I'm using right now. Kudos for that!

The lack of mechanical switches has always been my complaint against the keyboards you can find now. And, maybe someone can help me out here, but weren't the Extended keyboards renowned for being built like a tank -- i.e., you couldn't break them if you tried?

I like the Apple Pro keyboard, but I loved the Extended keyboard. Nice to see that it's got a USB hub in it, too. Now if only I had $100 to buy one... Sigh...

Opposite.

Hmm. I actually prefer the opposite, like a laptop keyboard....

Very short keytravel, and very quiet with keys close together so my fingers don't need to move very far...

I am just odd though... :)

It's one reason I like my Apple Pro keyboards as they feel more like a laptop keyboard than the ones that I have at my PCs at work...

MicroConnectors Mac Keyboards...

I have been using a MicroConnectors keyboard for a couple years, and I must say it's been very satisfying. The keys have great feel and action, they click nicely (pretty loudly for some), and it's laid out exactly like the AEK II, with power button and everything (that no longer works to power on Macs since the G5, but can still bring up the shut down dialog while the computer is running). They go for around $50 online, and come in different colors, though I believe some colors are discontinued, and pretty hard to find. Graphite color is still available, and looks fine. The only complaint I've had is that the power key is pretty flimsy, and it WILL break off after a while, though I never use it (leave my Mac on 24/7), so it's not an issue for me. The rest of the keys are sturdy, and this thing has taken a world of abuse over the years, and still works fine. I even had to get another one that's still in its wrapping, for the day when this one gives up the ghost. For a great feel that won't break the bank, MicroConnectors is definitely the best option available for us Mac users, and I've tried them all (you suck MacAlly!). Unfortunately, I haven't seen them in stores, so the only option is to get them online, without trying them first. Comparatively, the recent Apple ones are incredibly mushy, to the point of being a pain to use.

Backlight?

All it needs to make it complete is an auto-sensing backlight to aid use in a dark room (something like the backlight on the new Powerbooks)...

Need Ergonomic Saratoga

I am still a fan of the venerable Saratoga Apple keyboard.

Unfortunately a muscle condition requires that I use an ergonomic keyboard (or suffer in pain). I really wish this company, or Apple, would make a good, inexpensive ergonomic keyboard.

I *really* *really* wish they would use that extra room in the 17" powerbook to put in an ergonomic keyboard... (I'll live with just the slant, and do without the tilt...)

-Robert

Re:Need Ergonomic Saratoga

What killed ergonomic keyboards? Lawyers, sort of. Our U.S. legal system makes the fact that you sell a product that is "safer" (for some people) a factor in litigation against the "dangerous" old keyboards. So my understanding is that many companies, even those successfully selling ergonomic keyboards, were convinced to stop to avoid huge trolling lawsuits from users of older or simultaneous non-ergonomic keyboards.

Caps Lock

So... does the caps lock key lock mechanically, the way the old Apple keyboards did? Or is it another one of those useless pieces of crap that just have an LED and nothing more to indicate what's going on with it.

Sticky Caps Lock

One of the bigger failures of modern keyboards, including the USB Apple keyboards, is the lack of any kind of decent Caps Lock indication. The current Apple keyboards have a green LED on the caps lock key itself. Which is sort of cool, except that if your left hand is actually on the keyboard, you can't tell if you've got Caps Lock engaged or not (my hands are opaque). IIRC, the Apple Extended Keyboard II (what made a II a II, anyway?), had a Caps Lock key that stuck down when activated. It definitely also had a light in the upper right corner of the keyboard, which is a lot more visible than the on-key LED they use now. It looks like the Matias keyboard has a similar cool-looking less-functional LED, too. Does anyone know if caps lock stays down? The caps lock - A key gap is also lacking according to the tidbits review, which is also disappointing.