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Virginia Tech Upgrade: PowerMac G5 to Xserve G5 314
An anonymous reader writes "Virginia Tech officially announced that they will be migrating their G5 Supercomputer from PowerMac G5s to Xserves.
According to the article, the Xserve G5s will reduce power consumption, heat production and decrease the system size by a factor of three. The pricing of the upgrade is still being determined, and according to Srinidhi Varadarajan, they are working on getting "very good homes" for the PowerMac G5s which will be replaced."
Very good homes... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Very good homes... (Score:2, Interesting)
<drool>man, when i saw this, i couldnt help but be jealous of that kind of budget. my first thought was, "must be nice..."</drool>
<shameless_plea> considering our (small, private, broke) school is using REALLY old hardware, i could definitely find a home for them. we are still trying to make use of old P1's with 32 MB RAM (hell, i got one that we installed Win2K on! it's kind of a joke to even turn the thing on), and a lot
Re:Very good homes... (Score:2)
Re:Very good homes... (Score:2)
Upgrade cost (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Upgrade cost (Score:3, Funny)
Jay (=
Re:Upgrade cost (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, a savvy Slashdot reader, leaked the plans [slashdot.org] some time before the upgrade was officially announced.
Re:Upgrade cost (Score:3, Insightful)
the reason the college did what they did is so they can get into the top 5 on the super computer list, being there brings in lots of research grant money.
Re:Upgrade cost (Score:3, Informative)
But with the G5s being in very short supply, I don't think it happened this time. Remember, at that moment everyone and his brother (including me!) was looking for one.
Virginia Tech had a huge time constraint, and Apple had a reason to delay delivery as much as possible. They compromised at an "educational list" deal, which is also not unheard of.
That being said, I'm sure they DID get a generous deal on the Xserves, since time pressure was not involved, and there was no pre
Re:Upgrade cost (Score:2)
Re:Upgrade cost (Score:2, Funny)
2. Get listed on top500.org
3. ???
4. Profit!
Re:Upgrade cost (Score:2)
Re:Upgrade cost (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Upgrade cost (Score:2)
As an ad for Virginia Tech: ooh, look at all the blinkenlights--I think I'll send my son or daughter (okay, just son) to Virginia Tech!
Good homes? (Score:5, Funny)
Can EBay be slashdotted? I guess we'll find out now!
jgaynor (Score:5, Funny)
Where do I sign up... (Score:4, Funny)
Heh.
Screw it, just gimme a G5!
A friend of mine had a great idea about this (Score:5, Funny)
Re:A friend of mine had a great idea about this (Score:3, Insightful)
That's a fantastic idea, and one that had occurred to me as well. The Mac people in particular would get a kick out of the 'historic' connotations.
I mean, look at the 20th anniversary Ma
Re:A friend of mine had a great idea about this (Score:3, Interesting)
It's obvious TV already has plans for them
Instead of going 3x smaller (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Instead of going 3x smaller (Score:4, Informative)
For every five racks you need one computer A/C unit, without any redundancy. Anywhere you have a cable dam or piping, your ability to cool quickly goes to hell, even with a 24" raised floor.
I predict lots of problems with this upgrade... based on the marketing video they did with Apple. Just not set up to cool that kind of density.
Re:The costs involved (Score:2)
A few grants and a few nodes at a time
Speed Improvments (Score:5, Informative)
Bob
Re:Speed Improvments (Score:2, Informative)
Another thing that struck me is why we assume that VT would buy current generation XServes. I would imagine that they are going to be purchasing the next version of the XServe with a faster clock speed. I imagine that size matters but they'll get a speed boost also.
Re:Speed Improvments (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Speed Improvments (Score:2, Interesting)
Of course, that could change in the next hour...
Re:Speed Improvments (Score:2)
The Xserves do not have a 1.1 GHz bus. They are 1.0 GHz just like the Powermacs. So far Apple has always clocked the bus at 1/2 processor speed. (I've heard that the PPC 970 also supports 1/3 and 1/4, but, of course, not as happily.)
Xserve tech specs [apple.com]
Video Cards & Optical Drives (Score:5, Insightful)
a nice incentive (Score:5, Interesting)
get an A in any programming class, take home a G5.
Re:a nice incentive (Score:5, Funny)
damn them for ruining my joke (Score:5, Funny)
Re:damn them for ruining my joke (Score:2)
too soon to initial install (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:too soon to initial install (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:too soon to initial install (Score:5, Interesting)
What I wonder is what are they gonna do with all the extra space? Wouldn't they be able to stuff twice as many Xserves in the space occupied by the towers? Anybody know if the electrical and cooling are up to that challenge?
Re:too soon to initial install (Score:2, Informative)
Now Accepting orphan G5's (Score:2, Funny)
There, they can spend the day happily puttering away in my new (soon-to-be) G5 cluster, working merrily at finding ways to improve the human condition, advancing understanding of the universal truths, and produce superior pr0n...
Motivation? (Score:3, Insightful)
I wonder if there is a processing gain acievable by doing this or of the motivation is purely power dissipation and space. If so, at the end of the day it seems like the power bill delta over the usable life of the computer wouldn't make the expense of the upgrade worthwhile (especially considering VT has an on campus power plant of their own). Wouldn't it make more sense to wait around for the 'next best thing' instead of the same thing in a different package? If it ain't broke, why fix it?
But I guess they want a super-computer the football team can be proud of...
Keep your eye on the ball (Score:5, Funny)
Or a supercomputer that the football team can spell. "G5" is shorter than "Pentium".
Re:Motivation? (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll admit I'm not an Apple fan, but I was glad to see VT take such an aggressive stance and build the Big Mac when they did. It did all the right things for all the right reasons...but why upgrade now? It's chic, but at the risk of sounding ultra-liberal
Re:Motivation? (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you're looking at this backwards. The money used for this project was probably more or less grant/research money, e.g. not out of the state's general budget. As it is, the enhanced prestige from these successful projects will bring in scads of private cash to the uni, and thus will allow Virginia to push funds towards secondary and primary education, rather than VA Tech itself.
You should be happy, not concerned.
Re:Motivation? (Score:2)
Re:Motivation? (Score:2)
And your analysis is based on what exactly???
Hardware monitoring (Score:4, Insightful)
I know where they'll end up. (Score:5, Informative)
These G5s are too snooty now... (Score:5, Funny)
"No offense, but after running thermal dynamics equations, your, how do you call it, 'leet' Photoshops skills are somewhat beneath me. I'm looking for something that will stretch my thinking, not bore me to tears. I don't think I'm right for you. Perhaps a Blueberry iMac would be more your speed. Yes, a beige G3 with 64 megs of ram and os 8.1 should handle your AOL sessions just fine. I'll continue my search. Thanks for your time."
Re:These G5s are too snooty now... (Score:3, Funny)
"I'm very sorry, Mr. G5, but your education is simply not relevant to the job you are applying for. It says here you are running Mac OS X 10.2.6, but we need someone with Mac OS X 10.2.5 experience.
Thanks for stopping by."
Re:These G5s are too snooty now... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:These G5s are too snooty now... (Score:2)
PowerPC 970FX (Score:3, Interesting)
It would also be interesting to know if the 970FX has suitable energy saving modes and a low enough power consumption to be used in a G5 PowerBook
Re:PowerPC 970FX (Score:3, Interesting)
G5 PowerBooks are on the way!
Re:PowerPC 970FX (Score:2, Informative)
Forward Thinking (Score:5, Interesting)
It may seem like a waste to upgrade a system only four months old, but the reduced power consumption will save some dollars in the long term. By ditching the towers, they also save a boatload of space...
Where they can use some some of that extra money to purchase more nodes...
To put in all that extra space...
How many more nodes would it take to surpass number 2 on the list? Or possibly give number 1 a run for its money?
I think VT may be on to something here.
Farming (Score:3, Interesting)
Why upgrade to dual 2 Ghz?? They won't be 2 ghz.. (Score:3, Interesting)
They won't be dual 2 Ghz G5 rackmount servers.. VTech is going to do the same thing they did when the G5's were released.. get first dibs on new inventory as soon as the new rackmount servers are released - the new 2.3Ghz rackmount servers.
Apple knows what's in it's product pipeline, and I guarantee you that they are in talks with Virginia Tech about offering their new xserves that are *yet* to be announced. You honestly think that Virgina Tech had no idea about the nee G5's prior to Steve Job's and his keynote? They are planning on upgrading their supercomputer, and they are going to be making it FASTER, and Cooler (bad pun.. I know)
Apple's marketing line is going to be: "Look, Look Not only is the 3rd fastest computer on earth powered by our G5's, but it also is run on our new XServes.. You need mission critical hardware? No problem. We build supercomputers!"
-Buddha wears grass shoes
Re:Why upgrade to dual 2 Ghz?? They won't be 2 ghz (Score:3, Informative)
Apple announced [apple.com] the G5 base Xserve systems only a couple of weeks ago and they top out at 2GHz currently using a 90nm version of the PPC 970. They have not announced any systems based on G5s with higher clock speeds.
Can you point to documentation about systems using 2.3+ GHz G5s (PPC970/fx etc.) and when those will be available and when VTech / public will be getting them?
The main reason, so far stated, that they are swapping the systems is for space saving and pow
Has anyone else heard..... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Has anyone else heard..... (Score:5, Funny)
SORRY -- I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF THE 3RD FASTEST CLUSTER IN THE WORLD.
Joking aside, who cares how loud it is when its this fast? I'm a very big fan of quiet personal computers, but when designing for raw power, I think I'd actually like it to sound like an earthquake when it runs. It's just more impressive that way.
Re:Has anyone else heard..... (Score:4, Interesting)
Second off, I've been between rows 3 and 4 (i.e. dead center) when it's going at full blast, and I can assure you that the Xserve/G5 fans are totally drowned out by the overhead Leibert cooling fans.
why? (Score:2)
i mean surely they have enough space at the moment, otherwise their existing cluster wouldn't exist. so why not just scale it up using the Xserves rather than losing money on an investment that is so young???
Re:why? (Score:5, Insightful)
The other issue: with 2/3rds of your space free, you can wait for faster G5s to appear and slot those in with very small amounts of disruption. Or a grant comes through for a $1,000,000 for more computers -- boom, you're done. No lengthy process of finding more space, spending more to build out a/c, etc.
Misprint on Reuters. They've already found homes!! (Score:2, Informative)
Surprising! (Score:2, Funny)
Old news (Score:5, Insightful)
Jobs talks about the G5 processor and Virginia Tech SuperComputer, who wanted "the first" 1,100 dual-2GHz Power Mac G5s. ("We pissed off a few people" getting them the first ones.") Cost them only $5.2 million and sending ripples through Supercomputer world. Jobs shows Virginia Tech Supercomputer video. It uses Infiniband networking; it took less than 3 weeks to assemble. Now in the top 3 Supercomputers. First academic machine to break the 10 teraflop barrier. The entire system runs on Mac OS X. Jobs says he expects to see a few more [Supercomputers] popping up hear and there
So VT is probably going to be THE FIRST to recieve G5 Xserve's.
1U units & wiring (Score:2, Funny)
More servers in a smaller space has a lot of economic advantages, but have you ever tried to unplug anything in the middle of a rack stacked full of 1U servers? My hands don't fit. It takes about half an hour to finagle something in or out. The real reason our jobs are going over seas isn't because labor is cheaper. It's because they need the s
Re:1U units & wiring (Score:2)
Blade servers are of course really easy, a 7U chassis to hold 14 servers, with only a few connections to share amongst them.
Re:1U units & wiring (Score:2)
Does anyone know? (Score:2)
With the release of the clustering software, when are all us Mac Zealots ;) going to get together and make the biggest, fastest (probably not fastest as bandwidth would be at issue) cluster ever?
That would be rather interesting, especially if it became self-aware and started manufacturing windows viruses. Or hot robot chicks.
From the Apple Store Higher Ed Inst. Purchase... (Score:5, Funny)
Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5
512MB DDR400 ECC SDRAM - 2x256
80GB ADM (1x80GB Serial ATA)
Mac OS X Server, 10-seat License
6-8 weeks
$2,499.00
Subtotal $2,748,900.00
Please note that your subtotal does not include sales tax or rebates.
$2,748,900.00
Apple Part Number M9215LL/A
Find out how to get your order for $91,235.99 per month*.
Top 2? Top 1? (Score:3, Interesting)
#3: VA Tech: 10.28 TFlops
#2: Los Alamos: 13.88 TFlops
#1: EarthL 35.86 TFlops
So, even if they spent 3x as much and filled up the now 2/3 empty room *and* scaled linearly (which they won't, won't, and definitely won't), they *still* wouldn't reach #1. #2, however, might be within reach, if they go to 2.3GHz and the ECC is a huge help.
Now that they more or less know where they'll wind up and there's no point in being secretive, I'd love to see them show what one box does on its own, then 2, then 5, then 10, then 50, then 100, then 200, 500, and finally 1100.
This is typical (Score:2)
Just don't give one to this kid (Score:4, Funny)
A good home for G5s (Score:2)
...is my home
Volunteers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Well duh? (Score:3, Informative)
Bob
Re:Well duh? (Score:3, Funny)
I mean really, for a community that mothballs GFX 5900's because the 5950s came out...do we have to ask?
Lack of Innovation, round two [Re:Well duh?] (Score:2, Insightful)
I've criticized the whole idea before, especially the hype around it, when I can't see any big new ideas happening.
Statements like The price of the upgrade has not yet settled on, but Varadarajan said it would be minimal compared to the cost of building a new supercomputer from scratch are just ridiculous, since why would you need to build a new multi-million supercomputer from scratch if you have never even used your brand
Re:The Cost? (Score:5, Informative)
VATech's rise to prominance (Score:5, Interesting)
This is a school with great self promotion and is going to go places. Unlike places like MIT, they don't sit on their Laurels, they are exploding.
I expect that in 20 years, they'll be considered one of the elite engineering schools. Kinda neat to have your college degree appreciate in value because the school gets better. I can't imagine that you don't get a decent engineering education at any engineering focused school, and this research project is a brilliant PR stunt.
Alex
Re:VATech's rise to prominance (Score:2, Informative)
from http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~landay/school-rankings94 . txt
For 1994 (see #26):
GRADUATE SCHOOLS OF
ENGINEERING WITH THE HIGHEST SCORES IN THE U.S. NEWS SURVEY
1. MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
2. STANFORD UNIVERSITY (Calif.)
3. PURDUE UNIVERSITY (Ind.)
4. UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS AT URBANA-CHAMPAIGN
5. UNIVERSITY OF
Re:VATech's rise to prominance (Score:2)
Uh (Score:4, Insightful)
They spent $5M to instantly catapult themselves to the forefront of high performance computing, which was successful. Now they're replacing the entire cluster with ECC on the cheap, and will be doing real work with it in no time. This is a coup for VT, plain and simple. No one will be #3 again on the Top 500 list for anything close to $5M anytime in the foreseeable future. (The Top 10 will soon be populated with even more $100M+ clusters.) Virginia Tech's gamble will pay off many more times over for Virginia Tech, the people of Virginia, and the federal taxpayers who helped pay for it. As you claim to be a professor (which I doubt), it surprises me that you're too dense to realize that. Remind me to steer clear of your "classes".
They became the #3 most powerful supercomputer site in the world, #2 in the US, and #1 in education - and the first academic site to break 10Tflops - for a pittance, and in accordance with all rules set forth by the Top 500 organization - and now can attract much more grant money to do even more research and become an even bigger contributor, instead of taking years and millions more dollars to do it.
The Top 500 list has always been about hype! Wake up! Bravo to Virginia Tech. The only "pity" here is that you're so ignorant and shortsighted.
Re:Uh (Score:2)
Really? Who's preventing any institution from buying 1101 G5s for $5.003 million and take VT's #3 spot?
Simple: (Score:4, Informative)
So, yes, someone can build a 1101-G5 cluster right now, and be faster than VT's cluster. But they won't be on any list, and they definitely won't be anywhere near #3 on the next Top 500 list. And neither will VT.
That's why the whole VT #3 thing is the coup that it is: the timing was *perfect* for them to take the #3 spot for a mere $5.2M. The PR and grants they'll get *because of* that are more than worth it. That will never happen again for anywhere near that small an amount of money anytime soon.
See some of the new clusters that will be in the Top 10 on the next list:
http://www.bayarea.net/~kins/AboutMe/GIFs/TOP500_
Nope (Score:3, Informative)
"The total cost of the asset, including systems, memory, storage, primary and secondary communications fabrics, and cables is $5.2M." (Source: http://don.cc.vt.edu/tcfslides.pdf [vt.edu])
That $5.2M INCLUDED the Infiniband cards, switches, and cabling.
"The total co
Re:The Cost? (Score:3, Insightful)
Waste what? From what I read they're just trading them in and Apple will sell them as used/refurbished units. They're probably getting a huge discount for the trade in of 4 month old machines, if they're paying anything at all. This is just a boost for Apple's marketing department to have a G5 cluster in one of the top supercomputer spots. What I nev
Re:The Cost? (Score:5, Interesting)
That would be ASCI White [llnl.gov], which is currently #8 on the top 500 [top500.org]. It's an 8192-cpu Power3 machine, and they didn't do it just for fun. It was #1 on the top 500 in Nov 2000 [top500.org].
Also, #10 on the top 500 [top500.org] is a 1920-node IBM Xeon 2.4Ghz cluster, but why should IBM use Intel processors when they make their own?
Why IBM wouldn't make a dual P4 cluster (Score:2)
Re:Marketing (Score:2)
1) The original prices were standard educational discount.
2) The machine was ready at the right time because VT wanted it to be ready by then.
3) They said many times that error correcting was handled in software.
Re:I'll take one... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I'll take one... (Score:2)
Well, as anyone who's actually used Macs for a while knows-they hold their value much better than PCs. Given that VT bought the G5s at the educational rate to start with, they can probably sell them right now at only a very slight loss. OK, I'm sure that listing 1,100 G5s on eBay at the same time would depress the selling price, but I'm sure VT could find willing buyers. Or App
Re:I'll take one... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know anything about VT, but how many computer labs could benefit from new G5's?
How about other departments? Do they have a need/use for them? If nothing else, put them on faculty desktops.
Then there's always the possibility of reselling them to the current students.
Re:I'll take one... (Score:2)
WTF??? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:So what did they ever compute? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:So what did they ever compute? (Score:2)
Since it's really NextStep 6.x
And NextStep has been around since '88
Re:Possible Money Spinner (Score:2)
You have never worked for the state of Virginia before
Re:Bad engineering? (Score:2)
It was originally spec'd with Dell Dual Xeon boxes, but Dell couldn't meet the timelines or the price. So they went looking and Apple promised them the first 1,100 dual 2G G5's at standard edu pricing, which allowed them to meet the deadline for the Top 500 list (making that list would get them enough grant money to pay for the cluster and the upgrade).
Re:Bad engineering? (Score:2, Insightful)
By blowing it off as Apple zealotry, you totally discount just how good the PowerPC 970 and the G5 architecture are.