"iPod's Dirty Secret" 262
akpoff writes "Have you ever made a promise while in tech-support hell to let everyone know how bad the product is? The Neistat brothers followed through after the batteries in an iPod died and Apple told them it would cost US$250 to replace them. The tech rep told the guys they might as well buy a new iPod. The brothers thought differently and made a movie showing how they got the word out in a large metro area. Of course it was made on a Mac with iMovie." Their statement is a bit misleading: many people have iPods that have lasted a lot longer than 18 months (the iPod was released over two years ago). But the batteries don't last forever. What is their life expectancy? Does Apple notify consumers of a life expectancy?
Oh my gosh! (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, what were they expecting? When I bought my iPod, I don't remember Apple ever saying they would replace the batteries for free, and I'm sure I don't recall them saying used magical batteries that never die.
Re:Oh my gosh! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Oh my gosh! (Score:5, Insightful)
Ugh. If your iPod is under warranty and the battery dies, Apple will fix it for free. No need to put in a 3rd party battery if the iPod is still under warranty.
I told him the serial, he told me to frigg off.
Apple states specifically that they don't support some types of G3's on some versions of OS X. For example OS X 10.3 requires a G3 with USB.
If Apple states on the box that you need a certain hardware level to run a given version of the OS, I think they are well within their rights to tell you to 'frigg off'.
Re:Oh my gosh! apolgist zealot alert defcon 4 (Score:2)
The wording of this makes it seem like you're talking about a machine that originally had something other than a G3 (say a 603 or 604) in it. Is that the case or did the machine actually ship from Apple with a G3 processor?
Re:Oh my gosh! (Score:5, Informative)
Since always. Li-ion batteries often show failure at 2 years.
Li-ion [buchmann.ca]
"Aging is a concern with most Li-ion batteries. For unknown reasons, battery manufacturers are silent about this issue. Some capacity deterioration is noticeable after one year, whether the battery is in use or not. Over two or perhaps three years, the battery frequently fails."
Apple's engineers sat down one day, desinged the cheapest battery in the world that barely met all the requirements, and laughed as they increased Job's profit margin and screwed the end user with an inferior product.
I don't think Apple is designing batteries. Like every other box vendor they are buying technologies available from others.
Re:Oh my gosh! (Score:2)
Sounds like built-in obsolescence. If they made batteries that lasted forever, there would be no repeat-business. Everyone now 'believes' that it's normal for Li-ion batteries to die after a while and that this is a perfectly normal and natural thing. How convenient for the battery manufacturers.
Funny, I have had laptop batts die... (Score:2, Funny)
Again, It's anecdotal, but I could just as easily go make some lame "Underground, rebelious" movie about how great my experiences have been, but I'm a little busie
Re:Oh my gosh! (Score:2)
And based on the price, I'd say he's wrong about that too!
Let's be realistic. If anybnody thinks there's a better battery available that will fit that form factor, last even that long and be any cheaper, I'd like to hear about it. Unless something better actually exists (and I doubt it does) I'd say calling the choice Apple made any kind of a blunder, catastrophical or otherwise, is premature.
Re:Oh my gosh! (Score:2)
iPod batteries are manufactured by Sony [ipoding.com]. Sony rates them for "more than 500 charge/discharge cycles". But - as it often happens with the batteries - for a 1% of luckless customers this could be just 100 cycles, while another 1% will be the lucky bastards still getting full 8 hours in 2012 on their '2002 iPod. The former 1% are the guys who complain, but you rarely hear the voice of the remai
Re:Oh my gosh! (Score:2)
Aside from that, the battery inside the iPod is made by Sony, not by Apple.
I suppose if the HD in there fails you'll blame that on Apple's "bad design" too?
News Flash (Score:3, Interesting)
In addition to that, if you are under the published system requirements, they have every right to tell you to sod off, as there are reasons the minumums are set there. Reasons such as driver support, performance considerations, and more likely in Apple's case, chipset support and removing the god-awf
Re:Oh my gosh! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Oh my gosh! (Score:2)
No, according to your link,
Out-Of-Warranty Pricing
[...]
- Battery Service: $99.00 USD: labor, parts, and a 90-day guarantee on materials and workmanship, plus $6.95 shipping. $105.95 USD total.
Hey, less than $106! Great price! And with a whole 90 days of warranty!
Re:Oh my gosh! (Score:2)
"iPod batteries DO cost $255! See? The Apple page says they're $99!"
If you still don't like that price, get one of the third-party kits for $59 and do it yourself.
Re:Oh my gosh! (Score:5, Insightful)
IIt really sucks that his iPod battery died as quickly as it did, and it's unfortunate he ended up with an unknowledgeable person on his Tech support call, but they both seem to be isolated incidents. A friend of mine has had his iPod for at least that long and he doesn't have any problems with it.
Re:Oh my gosh! (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd rather think he called tech support before Apple introduced the $99 battery exchange program.
Re:Oh my gosh! (Score:2, Informative)
I'm curious, what of Apple's "other technology" is proprietary?
Oh, you meant that in order to make it portable and usable they chose a battery that fit the form factor? Oh. How sad. Do you know how many camera vendors do that? Sure, they're removable, but have you ever noticed how much larger they are to accommodate that bay for it?
You want replaceable batteries for an iPod?
Re:Oh my gosh! (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, he certainly deserves to have the hate of millions, for the unpardonable sin of being new and not being clear on all aspects of all products.
I hope I get a question that I don't know at the computer store where I work, just so I can hope to see a movie about people protesting the company/device and my name plastered all over
Re:Oh my gosh! (Score:3, Informative)
No.
Generally, batteries are *not* covered under a warranty. They are considered "consumables" and are handled under a separate agreement, if at all.
So, any regular or additional warranties would apply to the iPod device itself.
As pointed out be many others, having a consumable that you have to void the warranty to replace is a stupid design. Forcing consumers to void their warranty to maintain a perfectly useful device is a stupid d
They must work for SCO (Score:5, Insightful)
PDA Smart [pdasmart.com] offers $69 replacement service or a do-it-yourself kit for $59. Which Geek.com raved about [geek.com]
If the guys can't Google [google.com], they shouldn't buy expensive toys.
Re:They must work for SCO (Score:2)
Re:They must work for SCO (Score:2, Informative)
Here's how I understood it:- two brothers have certain issues with their iPod battery. They call up Apple support and ask if there's anything they can do about it, presumably because, as you mentioned, it's an expensive toy and would want to do things the Right Way (tm). Apple support says, sorry, your replacement costs US$250/-, which, obviously, pisses them off to creatively protest about it.
I know I
Re:They must work for SCO (Score:5, Insightful)
Everyone gets a bad phone rep - these things are farmed-out, But instead of asking for a supervisor, or calling back and getting someone with a braincell, or getting his name and then writing Apple, or doing any research themselves to find out about replacing batteries and why batteries fail, they decided to go ballistic and go to war with Apple.
They remind me of he people you see in a store, who - if they don't get what they want, right then - decide to start yelling at the tops of their voices to get a crowd. You know the types - they want what they want because the "client is king", which is always true until they start acting like one.
I can be an Apple apologist, but I have an iPod too and if I thought I was going to get screwed, I'd complain. And I have - my iPod was 4 weeks old when one of the earbuds gave up. They sent me a new set in 3 days. The pod skipped the first song occasionally (Toshiba HD issue - known in the forums) and the screen, while it worked, didn't seem to be the bright-blue screen you see in the commercials but instead a weaker green that washed-out a bit in the sun (polarizing, I guessed). I even scuffed the screen and back a bit - it looked old.
All this is 6 weeks after I buy one in NY and take it home to The Netherlands.
Called them up, told them the story, got a rep who sent a box Airborne the next day. It was in for repair. Then, a week and a half later, I get a brand-new iPod with a new blue screen and un-skipping drive, just as I asked. Perfect condition, just as I expected.
They idiots plain lie on their site. Their guerrilla tactics don't impress me because I know their tactics aren't about respect but about public embarrassment.
They should enjoy their 10 min/MB of fame. I hope Apple sues 'em.
mod parent up, insightful (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:mod parent up, insightful (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, but y'know so would not being given the first no by the company in the first place.
I mean come on, what, we're all telemarketers now and have to ignore the first three times a company says "no" until we get what we want?
Re:They must work for SCO (Score:2, Informative)
No excuse. If they're farmed-out phone service sucks, they can either do better contract management or bring it in house. Outsourcing the function does not allow them to outsource the responsibility.
Re:They must work for SCO (Score:2)
Having supported NeXT & Apple with NeXT's Openstep User/Developer Tools I can assure you no two representatives are the same.
However, the level of competence at NeXT was exponentially higher, on average, than the rest of the industry.
How so? Professional Services like Software Quality Assurance were entry points into NeXT and more importantly every door in Engineering was open at NeXT.
If I needed an answer a
Re:SQL Server (Score:2)
Of course I would - idiots are everywhere.
Part of being cool is not taking everything so SERIOUSLY...
Re:They must work for SCO (Score:2)
Re: extortion campaign (Score:2)
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Maybe that's part of it. Another reason was this guy's campaign had merit. From what you've said of the other one, it doesn't sound like it did since they were abused.
And a third-party iPod battery costs... $50. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And a third-party iPod battery costs... $50. (Score:2, Insightful)
Would you pop open the case of your VCR and replace the damaged or worn out heads? Would you buy yourself a new DVD
Re:And a third-party iPod battery costs... $50. (Score:2, Insightful)
No, it's cheaper to get a new one, or use it as an excuse to switch to DVD.
Would you buy yourself a new DVD tray and motor and replace it when it goes bad?
No, that would be covered under warrantee.
Would you replace the screen of your Palm when it gets scratched?
Yes, wouldn't you?
Would you replace the lense of your digital camera if it gets moisture inside?
No, I'd probably just dry it.
I could go on.
Please do,
Out Of Warranty, So Crack The Case (Score:2, Insightful)
As a rule, consumer electronics factory repair prices have been at or near replacement cost for all but high end gear (ie. >$2000US) for years. Consumers with enough brains to program their VCR who want to flog their gear a little longer have long been buying DIY books. As others have pointed out, Google is the frie
Re:And a third-party iPod battery costs... $50. (Score:3, Informative)
Irrelevant in this case since if the iPod is under warranty Apple will fix it for you for the mailing costs.
Would you pop open the case of your VCR and replace the damaged or worn out heads?
Probably not because I don't have the equipment to do the alignment etc.
You can't compare this to ram, hard drives or any replaceable computer part.
I have seen plenty of PC's where installation of RAM requires pulling the po
Re:And a third-party iPod battery costs... $50. (Score:2)
Compaq minitowers right? I got one of those sitting around somewhere.
Re:And a third-party iPod battery costs... $50. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:And a third-party iPod battery costs... $50. (Score:2)
No battery problems here (Score:5, Informative)
Fuzzy math (Score:2)
- 5 hours
----------
4 hours
4 / 9 = 0.4444 * 100 = 44.44%
Idiots. (Score:5, Informative)
Days after Apple announced the $99 battery replacement policy.
Months after www.ipodbattery.com [ipodbattery.com] offered $50 battery replacements.
Replacement battery for $49 (Score:5, Informative)
Like anyone thought that Apple could summons the power of the Almighty and create a Lithium-ion battery that lasts forever...
Re:Replacement battery for $49 (Score:2, Funny)
You haven't met many mac users have you?
Re:Replacement battery for $49 (Score:5, Informative)
Whenever you see somebody selling a battery for too much, don't forget that they need to buy it from somewhere, and they need to make a profit. Most industrial rechargeable batteries you'll find on replacement sites are sourced through DigiKey or Newark, and the manufacturer's markings are usually left intact on the original battery. Just head over to one of those sites and type in the part number. You'll usually see a 50%+ savings. This goes for UPS batteries too!
Re:Replacement battery for $49 (Score:2)
Re:Replacement battery for $49 (Score:2)
Re:Replacement battery for $49 (Score:2)
Your best bet is to open the unit up and purchase an exact replacement. I don't know enough about iPods to tell you which kind of battery is in each model, but I can tell you that you'll never go wrong by double checking the part number on the original battery first!
Less life than ipodbattery.com battery (Score:2)
Don't blame Apple (Score:2, Interesting)
Tech Support is a business, boys and girls, not a public service. Apple has to compete with illegal abuses of monopoly power, and yet they still offer top-notch support and quality products. Don't bitch about them not doing more than they said they would.
Re:Don't blame Apple (Score:2)
Oh well. All that's happened is the remote wore out after living in my pockets, and I suppose I could replace it if I wanted to.
iPod Applecare is new.... (Score:2)
For you non link clicking types, this is MacMinute's blurb:
21-Nov-2003
Apple is now offering an iPod AppleCare Protection Plan for both Mac and Windows users. (Previously, AppleCare was only available for Apple's desktops and laptops.) iPods come standard with 90 days of phone support and one year of hardware service coverage. The US$59 AppleCare plan extends service and support coverage for your iPod, its included accessories, and iTunes f
website (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:website (Score:2, Insightful)
What century have you been living in? Corporations have many product lines and many subsidiary companies these days. I can tell people that I think the PS2 is a great product while also laying claim to being one of the foremost experts on why the Walkman sucks. I mean, Quicktime and the iPod aren't exactly the same product, now are they?
Amused? No.
Re:website (Score:2)
I know how they feel! (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe I had better buy a new car?
Re:I know how they feel! (Score:2, Insightful)
More like buying a car and having to replace the "gas tank" after 350 miles. They were recharging their battery after all with electricity. And I'm sure that Apple didn't advertise the fact that batteries need to be replaced after a year or so. In fact, I'm quite sure that Apple was playing up the "rechargability" as a feature.
Re:I know how they feel! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I know how they feel! (Score:2, Funny)
Does it still work with a dead battery? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Does it still work with a dead battery? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Um... (Score:2)
Re:Does it still work with a dead battery? (Score:2)
I love it! (Score:2, Interesting)
Disclaimer: Mac user since OS7/LC III and I want an iPod once it becomes videoPod
I think it's great. If this doesn't wake Apple up, nothing will. Seriously, how hard would it have been to design the thing with an easily replaceable battery? That's one of the things you look for when buying things like digital cameras: how much does a replacement battery cost?
I love the iPod and I want one but here's to hoping that Gen 4 pods have easily replaceable batteries. Remember, the guys that did the vid are soli
Re:I love it! (Score:2)
Most rechargable devices have a little panel held in place with a screw which hides the battery. The problem is, Apple doesn't like screws, they're not "sleek" or "lickable".
So Apple would have to design a battery cover that would glow a pleasant orange, and then pop open when you breathed on it. And that just made the iPod too expensive.
Re:I love it! (Score:3, Informative)
Ah-hem. [apple.com]
This was announced before this website was up.
This is pretty silly (Score:3, Insightful)
Second, batteries don't last forever. There can't be a life expectancy because that number is dependent on number of charges, hours used, length of time used, and other factors. If they said "13000 hours" and some fool's iPod went dead before that, then he'd be compelled to put it on a site like these people did, which IMO, is ridiculous.
It is very possible their tech support guy was a moron, but they shouldn't tarnish the reputation of iPod or Apple. It's so pathetic how they always go for the most successful products and attempt to break them to pieces.
D'oh. (Score:5, Funny)
2. Make video showing clearly your face and your acts of vandalism.
3. Put audio into video that clearly reproduces call to Apple for easy identification.
4. Put same on Internet.
7. PROFIT!
Trade libel (Score:2)
These were obviously false statements because many (if not most) iPod batteries last longer than 18 months. These guys are screwed. When they finish paying money damages to Apple they'll wish they had just bought anoth
2 bad batteries... (Score:3, Insightful)
Not that big a deal for some :) (Score:5, Interesting)
Popping the back off my iPod and installing a fresh battery, bought off the net for less than US$75.00, is nothing... I look forward to the day
It's adept, not adapt, Einstein. (Score:4, Funny)
Oh god this is great. R/C car enthusiasts are here to save US! Joy! Bless you, R/C car enthusiasts, bless you!
Some other "not that big a deal for some's":
Metalworkers:
"When you work with sheet metal on a serious level, you become quite adept at remounting your Pinto's rear bumper to the frame."
EMTs:
"When you work with saving lives on a serious level, you become quite adept at removing those small plastic parts from choking children's throats."
Waitresses:
"When you work with coffee on a serious level, you become quite adept at not dumping scalding coffee on your lap."
Hairstylists:
"When you work with shampoo on a serious level, you become quite adept at not eating the shampoo."
Defective by Design (Score:3, Insightful)
While Apple might not be guilty of any crime in their handling of this, they are definately guilty of:
o Very poor design
o Very poor handing of the problem.
Apple relies on very high customer satisfaction to justify their premium products. This type of incident does not bode well.
Re:Defective by Design (Score:2)
Re:Defective by Design (Score:3, Informative)
So, removing the back of the iPod is as complicated as removing an engine from a Mustang? I think you're being overly-dramatic here. Batteries have a finite life; always have, always will. Battery hatches can be held on with a screw, or a clip, or any other manner of things. The fact that the hatch isn't separate with the cover, hardly makes this a non-servicable part. If someone wants t
Re:Defective by Design (Score:2)
Nevertheless, this is fairly routine with products containing rechargeable batteries. The instructions for my Norelco electric razor (which probably cost as much as a low-end iPod) includes a procedure for "safe disposal" of the rechargeable batteries, and explicitly states that the batteries cannot be replaced. Many other such products have batteries that are tec
Re:Defective by Design (Score:2)
you should complain to any company that makes CRT monitors.
This type of incident does not bode well.
This type of incident is a flash in the pan. Smart people know how to get the part for lower than $30, and have already replaced it themselves. Apple already has a support policy for it. Newsflash! Some people not happy with some product! Film at Eleven! Get
Profit-centric design (Score:2)
If we inspect a relevant design problem - user-replaceable batteries in iBooks - we see that Apple previously engineered a nice, effective solution.
Why hasn't it done so with the iPod?
One obvious reason is iPod size. Looking at photos of a battery replacement in action (see http://www.ipodbattery.com/slimipodinstall.htm) it's fairly clear that the nested battery could have had a removable back cover, but for the fact that the hdd is on top of it! What a peculiar arrangement. Presumabl
What's wrong with a 226ci V6 anyhow? (Score:3, Interesting)
There some reason you feel you always need to hit on all cylinders? Or that you can't rip a couple of holes in the firewall?
Which is th
Mine is fine and it is from Day 1 (Score:3, Interesting)
That's a 2 year old iPod for those who are curious.
Bad tech support rep? (Score:4, Insightful)
1. There was something wrong with the iPod other than the battery (maybe it fell our of their pocket one too many times?)
2. Or, the tech support rep from Apple goofed and forgot that battery service is cheaper. Heck, not all of the Apple tech support reps can be stellar. If you don't like what you hear, call back.
Other products ... (Score:4, Interesting)
I think the issue may need to be making people aware of the lifespan of 'integrated' rechargeable batteries, no matter the product.
fools could have gotten battery months ago... (Score:2)
iPod Lifespan (Score:3, Informative)
I bought a 15 GB to replace it, but paid more than I needed to just to get it at Best Buy and get the $40 extended warranty. I NEVER buy extended warranties, but in this case, Best Buy is crazy - for $40, I guarantee the life of my iPod to 3 years. iPods are great, but I would never put their average lifespan as that long.
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Post from Mac/ (Score:4, Insightful)
I typically listen to my iPod for about 6-8 hours a day. I charge it up every two days. I've had it for almost a year now. The battery is fine for me. But of course, being an audio engineer, I don't listen at earsplitting levels so my battery isn't used up by driving the output amplifier.
Let's do a little basic math here. I spend $3 on some batteries...long life Duracell or Energizer. I go through a pair in two days at my usual listening rate of 6-8 hours per day. So that's $1.50 a day in batteries. In a month, I've spent $30 (an average of 20 work days a month, at $1.50 per day). In a year, I will spend $360 in batteries. If you stretch that out to the 18 months the guy is complaining about, you end up spending $540.
So, in 18 months, he can spend $540 on batteries, or $499 on a new iPod and $41 on music from the iTMS.
Or, he could spend $499 on a new iPod, and in 18 months, for only an additional $10 investment, get a new battery. So he now spends $550 and get's an iPod for 36 months.
This is utter silliness.
Not that one. (Score:3, Funny)
For your information only. (Score:3, Informative)
strange reminder (Score:2, Informative)
I thought nothing of it, seeing as how I could understand how some stupid people could take something the wrong way and do something stupid about it. Now... there's a slashdot article and a little movie about it...
Apple Support (Score:3, Insightful)
Now they're complaining that the battery doesn't last forever. I find it amazing that after Li-ION batteries have been out for years that people don't understand that these things don't last forever.
When i purchased my Powerbook G4, i was told by the reseller that i would go through about a battery every year. I opted for the Applecare and they have given me a new battery every year. My first battery dropped to about 50% life after a year and now i'm on number 2. While this isn't great, it's certainly better than my fathers Dell laptop that has about 20mins of life after about 1 year. For those of you who don't understand why Apple will not repair things like powersupplies, it's because it would cost more to fix one, than buying a new one.
As for batteries, has anyone looked the market full of portable electronics lately. A large share of PDAs do not have replacable batteries. Once your Clio battery dies, you have a $200 paperweight.
Unfortunately, i have yet to find a battery that lasts forever. You have to change the battery in your car every 3-5 years, and it's only really used to start the car. PDA, Laptops, Cellphones, none of these devices have batteries that last more than a couple years, yet it is the iPod that gets complained about.
People need to realize that every device has a "cost of ownership." With most devices this consists of purchase cost, maintanence costs, repair costs and so on. Having a battery fail in a device after 18 months is not out of the ordinary, especially with heavy use. You have to change the oil in your car, rotate the tires, and tune it up every 60,000 miles, yet none of these things anger people as much as the battery failing in the ipod.
Just sit down, shut up, and stop blaming Apple for the simple fact that their hardware makes it through the warrenty period without issue.
Product Safety (Score:5, Insightful)
These guys are wrong but... (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think these guys had all the info, or were possibly led astray by the Apple rep. But really, as big an issue as this has become, Apple would do well to offer a 4G iPod with an external battery pack. I mean, c'mon, Ives and crew are more than up to it. If the design was more or less exactly like the PowerBook design is, it would make no difference at all to daily use (i.e. battery flush with the body, like a cell phone).
In fact one of the unexpected bonuses to this kind of design I've observed, on my T68i, is that if I drop it the phone has tended to land on one of the bottom corners, or scrape the back - which is the battery itself. I can remove the cosmetic damage to the phone by changing that battery.
Re:Movie Torrent (Score:2, Funny)
Trevor
Re:Can we say... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Can we say... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Wrong. Apple offers a $99 battery replacement (Score:2)
so the ipodsdirtysecret dot something might have been quite right when it started(and one could argue then that it helped make a difference).
Re:Wrong. Apple offers a $99 battery replacement (Score:2)
Maybe, maybe not. Clearly the release date for it was after Apple started offering the $99 replacement, and was WELL after 3rd party repair solutions were on the market.
Re:No problem here (Score:2, Troll)
They are just on the wrong side of the bell's curve.
Re:Similar Experience (Score:2)
No major manufacturer allows official support people to repair broken parts, only replace them. Yes, it's perhaps a bit silly, but because manhours are so expensive, it's cheaper in the long run.
Did you pay your grandpa's friend at least $30/hour for his time?
It's not too hard to understand why Apple would make these decisions. I doubt Dell or Gateway would have their support technicians repair damage like th
Re:Similar Experience (Score:2)
Voelker told me they COULD NOT fix my adapter, as in, it is NOT POSSIBLE in any way to fix it, but I could order a brand new one for $90, + tax and shipping of course. Also, it should be worthy of note Apple has a propritery (sp?, no, I'm not going to check it) design on their adapters where no off the shelf adapters will work properly. I never asked Apple to fix it, because I was out of warrenty and I knew they wouldn't do it
Re:Similar Experience (Score:2)
So let me get this right. You are complaining that your local Apple Dea