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MacFixIt Details Mac OS X 10.2.8 Bugs
Posted by
michael
on Sat Sep 27, 2003 09:23 PM
from the pioneers-get-arrows-in-back dept.
from the pioneers-get-arrows-in-back dept.
mneptok writes "Premier Macintosh troubleshooting site MacFixIt has just posted a detailed report on the bugs and broken features in Apple's latest point release for MacOSX. As reported previously on Slashdot, the 10.2.8 update was released and pulled within hours earlier this week. Many users upgraded before the update was pulled and are being bitten, and MacFixIt has run down the behavior you can attribute to Apple's goof."
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MacFixIt Details Mac OS X 10.2.8 Bugs
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Most upgraders have no problems (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Most upgraders have no problems (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://openconnector.org/ | Last Journal: Thursday December 11 2003, @08:15PM)
So what should they do? Shut-up about it?
Come on people, apple is a cool company but you don't have to make excuses for their mistakes.
Found the problem... (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.sandpile.org/)
Ahh... seems I installed XP Service Pack 1 on my iMac by mistake. My bad.
I've had none of these problems, but had others (Score:3, Informative)
(http://bubba.org/)
Wait a minute, dammit (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.rootrecords.org/)
Um, actually, if everyone waits, there'll be nobody to play the guinea pigs. Forget what I just said, unenlightened masses -- download immediately, for my benefit!
Ha! (Score:2)
(http://www.smalltownmisfit.com/)
[lostbrain.com]
tcd004
I usually wait a bit... (Score:1)
(http://15images.com/)
A great event? (Score:1, Funny)
temp fix (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.haxors.com/)
Re:temp fix (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple worm infestation. Did this "utility" get
audited? By whom?
Works fine here (Score:5, Informative)
five to one (Score:4, Interesting)
Another reason to end developer seeds? (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course the argument was that it was a necessary evil to put up with this stuff because the feedback that Apple received from developers (both in quality and quantity) helped catch glaring bugs.
10.2.8 news has been rampant through the rumor channels for a LONG time. Now that it's finally out, there are quick glaring holes that cause the recall of the update and lots of bad publicity for Apple.
I certainly hope Apple doesn't get paranoid about the release of new software to paying seed developers, but this is just another reason that the scale may be tipping toward the paranoid, closed-testing route than the limited open-seeding way it is today.
Re:Another reason to end developer seeds? (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://home.swbell.net/kingtj | Last Journal: Saturday September 30 2006, @01:07PM)
Since it turned out to have all these issues and got recalled, it looks like this guy was correct.
Assuming this is true, why did Apple go ahead and push 10.2.8 out the door when their own employees knew it wasn't ready yet?
My theory is, it contained security fixes such as patches for SSH - and Apple felt they couldn't risk waiting any longer to roll it out, and have a Microsoft-like fiasco develop where OS X got exploited before fixes were available.
This probably begs the question: Should security patches/fixes always be released by themselves, instead of rolled into general system updates? It may not be a bad idea.
As far as Apple getting paranoid about giving out pre-release software to developers, I think that's mainly due to all the Safari builds that leaked onto Usenet. Apple hates not being able to surprise people with cool new features, and that element of surprise keeps getting stolen out from under them when code gets leaked. (We all knew about Safari adding tabbed browsing long before Apple announced it, for example.)
Still, you have to balance those concerns with the risk of not having enough people testing/pre-screening your code for serious problems. In the end, writing a solid, bug-free product is the most important goal.
Apple's patch strategy needs work (Score:5, Interesting)
However, Apple failed to provide us one. Instead, they rolled the patch into the 10.2.8 release, thus exposing anyone who upgraded solely for the security fix to additional instability caused by changes to other OS components.
I feel sorry for those server administrators who were unable to upgrade to 10.2.8 because it means the server is still vulnerable to the ssh security hole.
Re:Apple's patch strategy needs work (Score:5, Informative)
struggle (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Wednesday May 16 2007, @12:43PM)
In case of Slashdotting here is the text ... (Score:3, Funny)
1) Able to use a three button (or more) mouse. Requires external hardware.
2) People hate seeing that spinning wheel while your Mac just sits there and does shit all. It has been changed to a happy smiley face instead.
3) All Terminal app crashes have been eliminated by removing the Terminal all together.
4) People are always moaning about the chane in file permissions after an update. To fix this problem all permissions will now be set to World readable and writeable.
5) Because we supply an ancient version of the PHP module with Apache and have been laughed at by Slashdot vistors, we will now install the Developer Tools by default. Now if you don't like it - compile it yourself!
Unstable branch (Score:2, Interesting)
Please enlighten me.
porp
Interested? (Score:1, Informative)
~~~
Broke network driver (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://www.craigcmiller.com/)
On another not, for the first time I can remember, I did not apply this update to my "Sawtooth" G4 and so did not have a chance to experience this annoying problem. The reason for this was that I really couldn't be bothered since I've been playing a 10.3 beta and it runs beautifully. Seems its less buggy than the release version of 10.2.8!
They missed one. (Score:1)
A reboot fixed it, but this morning it started doing it again after waking the computer up.
Pretty Sad. (Score:2, Insightful)
(http://slashdot.org/)
Missing resolution (Score:2, Funny)
(http://homepage.mac.com/inertia186/iblog/ | Last Journal: Monday February 09 2004, @08:06PM)
Yup, I'm having this problem. In fact, my entire Apple Cinema Display is missing, i.e. completely gone! Oh wait, that's because I don't even own an Apple Cinema Display. Never-mind, my bad.
Um... (Score:1)
(Last Journal: Monday December 20 2004, @01:32PM)
I must just be more buffed and cooler than everyone else. :-) Bow to me!
What's with the function keys and OS X updates? (Score:3, Interesting)
Except the function keys. For some reason, Apple insists on using the function keys for things like changing sound volume and turning up and down the screen brightness. I prefer being able to remap the function keys for applications, especially Emacs. The only way I know of to reclaim the function keys is to reboot into OS 9, toggle the boxes in the keyboard control panel, and then reboot into OS X. However, every software update of OS X forces me to repeat this process. That means three reboots on average for each software update (four this time, due to the problem above), which is pretty irritating given how slow my PowerBook starts up.
What I find curious is that although this is a longstanding issue, relatively few Mac users complain about it. I suppose it has something to do with most Mac users being accustomed to a mouse-centric experience rather than a keyboard-centric user interface. Or do people really need to change their screen brightness that often?
"Reported On Slashdot"?? (Score:1)
I find
why complaints are few (Score:2, Funny)
But think about it--those who were affected got their ethernet knocked out. They *can't* post their complaints to slashdot.
Not the first update to break things? (Score:1)
(http://www.beskerming.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday January 30 2007, @10:28AM)
It sounds like a lot of the hardware with issues is several releases old, which isn't surprising in itself, but it is much better than Wintel machines - I would like to see a Lombard equivalent Wintel laptop running Win XP with all functionality, so things don't really seem to be all that bad. At least Apple is making an effort to keep the users who could run the system before up to date.
yawn (Score:1)
(Last Journal: Saturday November 30 2002, @08:32PM)
Odd, that was my reaction as well. And I don't even use a Mac! The number of affected users (low) and the complexity of the fix (plug into a 100base-T socket instead of a 10base-T) indicate not much to worry about. These could be huge problems for average home users (network? what network?), but how many of them are downloading OS updates anyway?
As a vereran of "dll hell" and several (admittedly early) problems with failed RPM's, I see this Apple problem as very minor. The "evil twist" in this story is that when the problem becomes apparent, it's not possible to connect to the internet to find a diagnosis / solution. I can almost hear all those users growling "ohhh shit!"
In a related note, I've noticed that OS vendors and ISV's are recently (in the last couple of years) referring a lot more to some mysterious "backup" which, while it reflects a very good practice, is not necessarily practiced universally. The vendors used to try and work around the problem ("here's how to back up what you'll need to recover in case this install fails"). That didn't serve them well, so referencing a "backup" without going into the minutiae of how to actually get one is really good for them to do. It makes the installation instructions much shorter, and face it--anyone who would uprade their OS without a backup doesn't really have anything important on their computer anyhow.
LINKSYS UPGRADE = BAD (Score:2)
(http://www.pdxbiodiesel.org/ | Last Journal: Wednesday March 19 2003, @08:01PM)
More comments are on VersionTracker [versiontracker.com] Older BEFSR41 drivers can be found here [hansenonline.net]
Fixing the problem with Lombards (Score:1)
(http://www.well.com/user/wellvis/steel.html)
To fix this issue with the "Lombard" open a terminal window and type
sudo rm -rf
sudo touch
Restart via the Finder
It's a bug in the ATI driver (a third party component shipped by Apple.) There will be an article on info.apple.com soon about this.
10.2.7 was G5 only. (Score:2)
(http://pyile.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday December 19 2006, @01:33PM)
Re:I hate Apple right now... (Score:1)
Re:My problem with the update... (Score:1)
Re:Mac OS X not up to snuff (Score:4, Informative)
Re:My problem with the update... (Score:1)
Re:I hate Apple right now... (Score:1, Troll)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday October 11 2005, @12:24PM)
Sincerely,
A tibook owner whose only still-original part is the keyboard
And people bitch about linux... (Score:1)
(http://nervalhi.net:8080/ | Last Journal: Friday December 12 2003, @11:03PM)
Re:WHAT??? (Score:1)
Re:I hate Apple right now... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:I hate Apple right now... (Score:4, Informative)
(http://www.phillyshreds.com/)
if you got the same issue 9 times in a row that doesnt seem to happen to anyone else.... i would evaluate what you do with your machine. kind of like how 90% of the people with hinge problems on their Ti-Books were dropping them hinge side down in their bags. i feel your pain, but something seems amiss that's not 100% Apple's issue since those 9 ibooks would span a few revisions. i know one guy that had one of the first ice-book ibooks in the Philly area and his worked 100% till he stepped on the screen recently. i know people that have had them in their bags while riding a bike and been hit by a car and they still work 100%. i know peopel that have dropped them out of bed or rolled onto them a few times in the night. they are a pretty well built machine.
Re:I hate Apple right now... (Score:1, Flamebait)
(http://fredsmith.us/ | Last Journal: Friday November 21 2003, @04:22PM)
but it's pretty! what, you expected working hardware in addition to a pretty package? sucker!
I bought a g4 eMac a few months ago and within 3 weeks it was in the shop for over $500 in work. Video card + monitor assembly was shot. A few weeks later, it was in the shop again for a bad motherboard. Not to mention the constant software issues. Aqua locks up solid after a few hours of actual usage. The apps that don't crash just plain suck (mail, safari, iTunes, i'm looking at you.) Don't even get me started on the horror that is printing from OS X.
Typing this from my IBM thinkpad (running Debian) which hasn't had a single hardware or software issue in the 14 months i've owned it.
Re:Mac OS X not up to snuff (Score:2, Funny)
Re:WHAT??? (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://www.redbearnet.com/)
I see a lot of comments from people like "it worked with my system" or "it's only a few people that are affected" or "most of the affected systems had third-party software/hardware installed, they should have known better". It's all so idiotic.
It's really not the number of affected systems that keeps me from installing my own update, it's the severity of the symptoms. Apple keeps releasing these updates that are supposed to fix things, and then it's like, "Oh by the way, there's a small chance that this will hose your system so bad that you won't be able to boot up anymore or repair your system with the CD repair tools or uninstall the update, and the only way to repair your system will be to reinstall the OS from scratch from the CD . You won't even be able to boot into "Safe Mode". But that's ok, right, because you all have spare huge-ass hard drives that you can use solely for backing up your entire main drive, and you'll do that before you try this update, just in case something goes wrong." I've literally seen dozens of people on the Apple discussion forums saying exactly that, "Just back up your whole drive with Carbon Copy Cloner or something before you do any sort of update, and everything will be cool. No problem."
Huh? How is that acceptable? No way to uninstall if you have problems? Systems hosed so bad they can't be repaired by any known method short of a complete reinstall?
Microsoft is bad enough, but I don't recall a lot of their updates causing people to need to reformat and reinstall from scratch once a month. To this day I can't understand why Apple isn't getting ripped to shreds for these terrible update problems. Is it just because only a few people are affected and everyone else just doesn't care? If you don't believe me that the problems were that bad, you just need to spend some time checking out the discussion forums on Apple's website, and probably other Apple discussion websites, where they talk about the 10.2.1-10.2.8+ updates.
Oh, and I see you've gotten a "Troll" rating already. Congratulations. That's what you get when you buck the tide, buddy. We'll show you. Maybe this post will bring in my first "Troll" rating. Keep your fingers crossed.
Re:not much issue for G4 laptops (Score:2)
(http://dev.lusis.org/ | Last Journal: Monday December 02 2002, @11:39PM)
The only odd problem I've really had is Lux [sillysoft.net] crashing on me for no reason.
Re:Mac OS X not up to snuff (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.studentism.org/)
I personally find Mac OS X better for getting "real work done" - when I've got a lot of windows open, lots of graphics, lots of text, I find that Aqua buckles a LOT less than X. The X11 architecture is seeming more and more ancient -- sure, multiple desktops can be nice, and being able to run programs across a network was an idea WAY ahead of it's time - but X is starting to show it's age.
I thikn that's the root reason that you can't run Aqua ('regular OS X') apps through X - it'd mean basically doing a total screen redraw from Aqua (PDF-based) to X - and that would be S-L-O-W. And it's not very reasonable to ask for programs that were never designed to work with X11 to magically work through X11 - there are PC X11 servers, you don't expect to be able to run WinXP apps through them. What OS X _can_ do is (using Apple's relatively good X11 server) run pretty much any X11 app under the sun - a number of apps (including the Gimp and (IIRC) Open Office) have been ported to the OSX-X11 combo - while still using Aqua for all your other apps. And for most of us, Aqua is fast enough, efficient, and 'lickable'.
But if you want a pure Unix-like set up (X11, boot into console, etc.), then OS X isn't for you - it's got the power 'under the hood' but you clearly want the engine exposed. Fine. You're right, the hardware is amazing.
Tim
Re:not much issue for G4 laptops (Score:2)
Re:Stupid Patch! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Stupid Patch! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Diablo II LoD (Score:1)
Re:Mac OS X not up to snuff (Score:2)
(http://antiwar.com/)
Congratulations. Wish I could do that. My TiBook has to stay on OSX though, there are some programs I have to have that won't run otherwise, and I have to keep around 10gig free hd space for video conversion runs so I can't even dual boot.
Doh! You didn't seriously expect otherwise, surely?
I wish it were otherwise, but to display those apps you have to have display-pdf. No way around that. X could have that - if a small fraction of the time and money that's gone into Gnome and KDE had been channeled to GNUStep instead... I personally think that would be a lot more worthwhile, but obviously not enough people agree with me.
Anyway, I won't whine too much about Aqua, really. The alternative in my case would have been WinXP... gack! That's enough to make Aqua look really really good.
Re:My problem with the update... (Score:1)
Re:My problem with the update... (Score:1)
Re:not much issue for G4 laptops (Score:2)
* Lost cursor on second display
* Scrolling windows (Mail.app, for example) would fail to update the full area that scrolled. I had to highlight or minimize/maximize to read my email.
* I had weird problems moving windows around, too:
http://bsdboy.west.spy.net/~dustin/WTF.png
Re:Holy Cow - THANKS MODS (Score:2)
(http://www.redbearnet.com/)
This goes to the other guy who also thought I was complaining. I found the ad quite amusing. Nobody knows what I'm talking about anyway, so I'll shut up.
Re:My problem with the update... (Score:1)
Thats from a G4/466 to a G4 1.25 , both of which are substantially slower than the G5 you are referring to.
and the iPod works fine during it.
You would appear to have some other issues.
Re:What happened to 10.2.7 ??? (Score:1)
(http://www.redbearnet.com/)
Well for fuck's sake, thanks for the link.
Re:Stupid Patch! (Score:1)
Ummm, troll? (Score:1)
(http://maxify.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday March 11 2003, @03:35AM)
Easy there mister troll.
I don't see anything in the MacFixIt notes about wiping hard drives, so if this actually happened, it's probably unrelated.
This one obviously got screwed up, but Apple has historically had a pretty good record for OS update stability.
- Scott
Re:Someone needs to sue Apple over this (Score:1)
(http://macinator.spymac.net/)
Re:Someone needs to sue Apple over this (Score:1)
It ran automatically and downloaded and installed the patch and I said "what the heck, if Apple released it, it must pass QA".
Thanks. I needed a good laugh.
Actually, you can't automatically update any system software. Software update will check at certain times, but it requires an admin password to download and/or install anything.
Re:Mac OS X not up to snuff (Score:1)
Wow, really tested her out there, huh?
because then I might pay the ridiculous price for OS X.
Err? 129 bucks? Or, like, free when you bought a new mac?
I still love the hardware though. Worth every penny.
The only part of your post that made any sense.
Re:What happened to 10.2.7 ??? (Score:2)
(http://www.jeremyp.net/ | Last Journal: Saturday January 17 2004, @02:25PM)
Re:Mac OS X not up to snuff (Score:1)
(Last Journal: Thursday May 03 2007, @11:34AM)
I also get a lot of real work done in the native GUI. I would get a lot more real work done, but the tools have not been ported yet.
The thing about the user interface is that Apple has one thing going for it, and one thing going against it. First, they have been working GUI issues for over 20 years. Kind of even more if you count the NeXt work. It is not like MS who woke up one day and said hey, we need one of them GUI things to compete. X is just as good, but has problem with the implementation on some hardware. The Apple implementation just isn't there yet.
The problem you are having results from the second issue. Apple has a large user base, and just can't change things willy nilly. Even the minimal changes they made to OS X caused a number of problems for the user. OS X is not X, and there is no reason it should try to be X. It is still missing features of OS 9, but lets seem what happens in Panther. Which I will wait a few weeks before purcahasing, just to be safe.
Oh, and virtual destops are nice. Have you thought of getting a second flat screen (~$300) and have two real desktops?
Apple chooses to have a low market share (Score:1)
(http://www.anotherbear.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday November 25 2003, @03:29PM)
I make minimum wage, you insensitive clod!
Apple has a low home market share because it chooses to. People who make minimum wage choose not to buy Apple computers because Apple chooses not to offer a sub-low-end ($499) desktop system.