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OS X Businesses Operating Systems Apple

MacFixIt Details Mac OS X 10.2.8 Bugs 333

Posted by michael from the pioneers-get-arrows-in-back dept.
mneptok writes "Premier Macintosh troubleshooting site MacFixIt has just posted a detailed report on the bugs and broken features in Apple's latest point release for MacOSX. As reported previously on Slashdot, the 10.2.8 update was released and pulled within hours earlier this week. Many users upgraded before the update was pulled and are being bitten, and MacFixIt has run down the behavior you can attribute to Apple's goof."
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MacFixIt Details Mac OS X 10.2.8 Bugs More

MacFixIt Details Mac OS X 10.2.8 Bugs

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  • Most upgraders have no problems (Score:3, Interesting)

    by sakusha ( 441986 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @09:24PM (#7075176)
    My system works fine on 10.2.8, it seems to be an extremely small (but vocal) minority with problems.

    • Exactly. I upgraded to 10.2.8 almost immediately after it was released and have yet to have any problems on the machines I have installed it on. It is too bad that a fairly large amount of people (although by far still the minority) are having problems. Hopefully this will lead to better QA in Apple's part in the future.

    • In fact, 10.2.8 fixed my most annoying problem with 10.2.6, which was that my mouse kept hanging every hour or so. I was able to fix it every time by unplugging it for a few seconds, but it's so much better not to have to bother.

      It's funny how many problems people are willing to attribute to 10.2.8. The "Dual Display configuration" issue, for instance, has been present since 10.1. "Linksys Router needs new firmware" sounds completely unrelated to me; Linksys routers are crap anyway.

      • I've not had random mouse hangs exactly, but I do have a problem where the USB controller fails to wake the mouse up when the computer's been asleep.

        As for the Linksys thing... how screwed up does a system have to be to break a router? And who's fault is it anyway?

    • Re:Most upgraders have no problems (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Kunta Kinte ( 323399 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @09:48PM (#7075273) Journal
      it seems to be an extremely small (but vocal) minority with problems.

      So what should they do? Shut-up about it?

      Come on people, apple is a cool company but you don't have to make excuses for their mistakes.

      • I think the point was not to trivialize or minimize the severity of these problems, but to show that this behavior is not widespread. Many news sites are acting as if this is some massive problem that a high percentage of users are experiencing, but in reality it's maybe a couple percent if that. That couple percent is too high, yes, but don't be mistaken about the relatively low percentage of users that this has actually happened to (as upsetting as it is to those users).

    • Not true (Score:2, Interesting)

      by SuperBanana ( 662181 )
      My system works fine on 10.2.8, it seems to be an extremely small (but vocal) minority with problems.

      Obviously you don't own an Xserve, a PowerMac G4, or use any Bluetooth devices, for starters. All those pesky iMac/eMac users(hint: educational market) don't matter either, eh?

      I use Bluetooth to sync the Address Book to the phone, and as a result of 10.2.8, Bluetooth no longer works properly. Many users with bluetooth keyboards+mice report similar problems with those devices.

      It doesn't matter how "mi

      • Obviously you don't own an Xserve, a PowerMac G4, or use any Bluetooth devices, for starters.

        Well, I own a PowerMac G4 (dual 500MHz). No problems with the 10.2.8 update that I know of--maybe I lost 10BaseT support, but my LAN's been 100BaseTX for a few years now.

    • You're smug now about not having any issues, but you wouldn't be if you were one of the people affected.

      I felt good about myself too after upgrading my 2002 Quicksilver with no problems, and then soon moved to update my 800mhz iBook. After rebooting my battery time was cut in half. If I boot into OS 9, power levels are at their usual (4 hours on a full charge).

      My friend has a 867mhz Powerbook and the same exact thing is happening. The issue is widely reported on the Apple discussion boards too.

      Fact is
      • If even 10% of the people who applied the patch are having problems it's too much.

        Heh, even 1% is too much IMHO. Apple isn't in the PC market with 1000's of different set-ups. That's why it bugs me more when my iBook stuffs up. I have learnt to expect it from my wintel machines, but I don't expect it from Apple.

    • it seems to be an extremely small (but vocal) minority with problems

      Isn't one of Apple's selling points that since they control both the OS and the hardware, there isn't supposed to be this kind of problem?

    • an extremely small (but vocal) minority with problems

      Ah! You mean Apple users! /me ducks fireballs

  • Found the problem... (Score:5, Funny)

    by InterruptDescriptorT ( 531083 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @09:31PM (#7075208) Homepage
    Several MacFixIt readers have noted a problem where iMac and eMac systems (primarily) display a blue screen at startup rather than proceeding to the Desktop.

    Ahh... seems I installed XP Service Pack 1 on my iMac by mistake. My bad.
    • The joke is DEAD. Geez, people. Get over it. It's been four years since blue screens were even commonplace on Windows machines. The rest of the world moved on at the turn of the millenium.
      • The joke is DEAD. Geez, people. Get over it. It's been four years since blue screens were even commonplace on Windows machines. The rest of the world moved on at the turn of the millenium.

        Funny, I still see them on a regular basis on my development machines (mummble crappy USB Drivers mummble). The only differnce is now they go away and reboot the system before you've had a chance to read what they say...

        • Right Click on "My Computer"
          Click "Properties"
          Go the the "Advanced" tab
          Click "Settings" under "Startup and Recovery"
          Uncheck "Automatically restart" under "System failure"

          Now when you get your next BSOD do the following:

          * Note down the error including any parameters
          * Run the error through Microsoft's Knowledge Base [microsoft.com]
          * Run through the articles to see if its a known condition

          BSODs are normally reserved for catastrophic failures (like the boot partition being damaged or broken RAM returning random information
          • Uncheck "Automatically restart" under "System failure"

            Been done. Found shortly after the problem began.

            BSODs are normally reserved for catastrophic failures (like the boot partition being damaged or broken RAM returning random information) and usually occur for good reason.

            Catastrophic Failure = I unplugged a specific USB GPS device. Happens consistently accross a variety of machines. Lousy drivers. :) Not entirely windows fault, although it's a bit annoying that this requires a reboot.
          • BSODs are normally reserved for catastrophic failures (like the boot partition being damaged or broken RAM returning random information) and usually occur for good reason.

            Damn, who would have thought canceling a CD burn was a catastrophic failure.
      • ...but our Windows machines still manage to break something about twice a month due to windows updates. The amount of time we spend "fixing" after updates is quite the PITA. All we run on our machines is half a dozen games (its a LAN center, not like we install new SW every day or anything). WinXP has given us the "stability" to run for days at a time, we just can't run stuff we want to every time an update hits. Our center has 9 Windows machines (8 gaming machines, and a CD server) and 2 macs (web server,
        • If you're having that many difficulties with the updates, could you Ghost the drives in case something goes wrong. While not the best solution, you could at least test the patch on one machine and then Ghost it to all the others once you've confirmed it works ok.

          I haven't seen that many issues with Windows Updates. Updating 20+ customer computers at an ISP, I don't think I had but 2-3 problems and those were minor (e.g. non-necessary stuff like installing updated drivers) and one customer who had issues

  • I've had none of these problems, but had others (Score:3, Informative)

    by Bubba ( 11258 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @09:35PM (#7075221) Homepage
    I haven't experienced any of the problems listed in the article. The only thing that I've noticed since the upgrade was that my Keyspan USB->Serial adapter is no longer working.. which sucks when trying to configure a router :(

  • Wait a minute, dammit (Score:5, Funny)

    by jcsehak ( 559709 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @09:39PM (#7075237) Homepage
    When are people going to learn to wait a few days before doing an upgrade? How many times do you have to read about people getting burned?

    Um, actually, if everyone waits, there'll be nobody to play the guinea pigs. Forget what I just said, unenlightened masses -- download immediately, for my benefit!
    • Um, actually, if everyone waits, there'll be nobody to play the guinea pigs.

      Interestingly enough, the 10.2.8 update did not break anything on my 1996 Beige G3/300. The only issue I encountered was a rearrangement of which monitor was identified as my primary monitor.

      This did not particularly surprise me because I happen to know the Beige G3 considers the internal Rage II chip as the primary display adapter. Booting into single-user mode will dump me onto the Rage II monitor; the little hash progress circ

  • Ha! (Score:2)

    by tcd004 ( 134130 ) *
    You'd never have these kinds of software problems with a
    [lostbrain.com]

    tcd004

  • temp fix (Score:5, Informative)

    by dema ( 103780 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @09:52PM (#7075294) Homepage
    Someone has released a utility [versiontracker.com] to fix the problem until Apple releases the fixed update. The comments on it all seem to say it works well and takes care of things.

    • Re:temp fix (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Compuser ( 14899 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @10:36PM (#7075436)
      This might be the easiest way to make a massive
      Apple worm infestation. Did this "utility" get
      audited? By whom?

      • Re:temp fix (Score:3, Informative)

        by dema ( 103780 )
        It's made by a person from Fixamac Sofware [fixamac.net]. They previously released (and still update I believe) Print Center Repair which has been a big help to many mac users. There is also a good deal of praise in comment form at versiontracker.com.
      • That would be a trojan, not a worm. And while people talk about the risk of it, links in forums (especially moderated, high-activity forums) aren't a big vector for trojans. This utility might still mess up your system, but probably not on purpose.

  • Works fine here (Score:5, Informative)

    by ben_degonzague ( 222715 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @09:53PM (#7075299)
    I installed the update and have had no problems. I have an iBook 700mhz, and It even took care of that annoying poping noise coming from the speaking when operating on battery power.

    • Re:Works fine here (Score:3, Interesting)

      by pcardoso ( 132954 )
      I am on a 700mhz iBook and I had no such problems with the 10.2.8 update too. My systems is even faster than ever.

      I usually had to reboot my 'book because of a major slowdown in the genie effect and the dock, as it over time degraded, and was more and more not-so-smooth, and a reboot fixed that for a few more days. .8 fixed that, at least over the course of a week, since I did the needed reboot the system is still like it was freshly rebooted.

      Even in the light of this bug ridden update, I am looking forwa

  • five to one (Score:4, Interesting)

    by tgibbs ( 83782 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @09:58PM (#7075314)
    I upgraded 6 systems to 10.2.8, including a Beige G3, an early iMac and a TiBook. Five are fine, one--a dual 450, the most common source of problems--couldn't access the internet until I downgraded the AppleGMACEthernet.kext file.

  • Another reason to end developer seeds? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by buckhead_buddy ( 186384 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @10:08PM (#7075339)
    Apple has been hinting of late that it's becoming more uncomfortable with seeding pre-release software to developers. Routinely, leaks of the new features and builds in the latest versions of the software make it to the mac rumor sites within hours of being made available in the seed channels.

    Of course the argument was that it was a necessary evil to put up with this stuff because the feedback that Apple received from developers (both in quality and quantity) helped catch glaring bugs.

    10.2.8 news has been rampant through the rumor channels for a LONG time. Now that it's finally out, there are quick glaring holes that cause the recall of the update and lots of bad publicity for Apple.

    I certainly hope Apple doesn't get paranoid about the release of new software to paying seed developers, but this is just another reason that the scale may be tipping toward the paranoid, closed-testing route than the limited open-seeding way it is today.

    • Re:Another reason to end developer seeds? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by King_TJ ( 85913 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @11:55PM (#7075698) Journal
      Well, what disturbed me most was the comment someone made over on MacFixIt when 10.2.8 was first released. He claimed he had good friends working at Apple who told him that the "in house" word was, the new 10.2.8 release still needed some tweaking, and wasn't really quite ready for public release.

      Since it turned out to have all these issues and got recalled, it looks like this guy was correct.

      Assuming this is true, why did Apple go ahead and push 10.2.8 out the door when their own employees knew it wasn't ready yet?

      My theory is, it contained security fixes such as patches for SSH - and Apple felt they couldn't risk waiting any longer to roll it out, and have a Microsoft-like fiasco develop where OS X got exploited before fixes were available.

      This probably begs the question: Should security patches/fixes always be released by themselves, instead of rolled into general system updates? It may not be a bad idea.

      As far as Apple getting paranoid about giving out pre-release software to developers, I think that's mainly due to all the Safari builds that leaked onto Usenet. Apple hates not being able to surprise people with cool new features, and that element of surprise keeps getting stolen out from under them when code gets leaked. (We all knew about Safari adding tabbed browsing long before Apple announced it, for example.)

      Still, you have to balance those concerns with the risk of not having enough people testing/pre-screening your code for serious problems. In the end, writing a solid, bug-free product is the most important goal.
      • I usually apply updates blindly, but this time I skipped 10.2.8 when it first appeared in the update list. I somehow felt uneasy, and it may have been because of the rumor on MacFixIt, I do not know.

        I mostly agree with you. I would like see a separate patch for a security problem rapidly. And for the feature enhancement, updates should first appear as release candidates, so that brave users can try them on a non-production Mac but at their own risk.

        I do not see why Apple wants to put all patches int
      • This probably begs the question: Should security patches/fixes always be released by themselves, instead of rolled into general system updates?

        Yes. Absolutely. I'd be even more upset about this if my Mac was on a public IP. Apple got just as much notice as other OS vendors, but there were TWO security holes announced in OpenSSH recently, and Apple STILL hasn't released a patch (the second one shouldn't affect OSX, but the first one does).

        Apple really needs to get on the ball with this sort of thing,
    • I certainly hope Apple doesn't get paranoid about the release of new software to paying seed developers, but this is just another reason that the scale may be tipping toward the paranoid, closed-testing route than the limited open-seeding way it is today.

      I'm confused. Wouldn't this incident tip the scale in the opposite direction? Perhaps the problem would have been caught sooner if more people had looked at seed builds before the official release. How would not releasing builds to developers have help

  • Apple's patch strategy needs work (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Otterley ( 29945 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @10:10PM (#7075348)
    I run a lab with an OS X server which relies on ssh for remote access, and all I wanted was a point patch to fix the ssh security hole announced two weeks ago.

    However, Apple failed to provide us one. Instead, they rolled the patch into the 10.2.8 release, thus exposing anyone who upgraded solely for the security fix to additional instability caused by changes to other OS components.

    I feel sorry for those server administrators who were unable to upgrade to 10.2.8 because it means the server is still vulnerable to the ssh security hole.
  • after struggling for a few days with the results of teh update i just finished resintalling 10.2.6. Most anoying thing was that my mac beige g3 wich was up for weeks with continious usage started crashing with a blank screen every few hrs once i started using the netowrk a bit. Heck i was coding a new nntp app (check out osxnews.sf.net heh, might as well plug it) and any heavy usage of the netowkr like downlaging lists would kill my mac. Dunno what it was but it was really sad to see it crach like that. :(

  • In case of Slashdotting here is the text ... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 27, 2003 @10:17PM (#7075366)
    Bugs Fixed in 10.2.8

    1) Able to use a three button (or more) mouse. Requires external hardware.
    2) People hate seeing that spinning wheel while your Mac just sits there and does shit all. It has been changed to a happy smiley face instead.
    3) All Terminal app crashes have been eliminated by removing the Terminal all together.
    4) People are always moaning about the chane in file permissions after an update. To fix this problem all permissions will now be set to World readable and writeable.
    5) Because we supply an ancient version of the PHP module with Apache and have been laughed at by Slashdot vistors, we will now install the Developer Tools by default. Now if you don't like it - compile it yourself!

  • Unstable branch (Score:2, Interesting)

    by porp ( 24384 )
    Why doesn't Apple take a similar approach to, let's say, Debian, and apply an 'unstable branch' to OS X. That way users get to see what Apple is cooking up for their next release, and Apple gets a pool of danger-seeking users to test their code. Maybe Apple already does this--I don't know. But they are a proponent of Free software, and I don't see the harm.

    Please enlighten me.

    porp
    • AFAIK, you can pull the -current darwin kernel from CVS. Most of the underlying UNIX core is free and CVS versions are available (from Apple or elsewhere).

      Apple obviously can't be showcasing projects they're cooking up that aren't announced yet.

  • Broke network driver (Score:3, Insightful)

    by iJed ( 594606 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @10:55PM (#7075500) Homepage
    The 10.2.8 update seemed to break ethernet support on early G4 ("Sawtooth" and some later) systems. I think reverting to the earlier (10.2.6) version of the ethernet driver fixed this problem. This is the biggest problem with the 10.2.8 update.

    On another not, for the first time I can remember, I did not apply this update to my "Sawtooth" G4 and so did not have a chance to experience this annoying problem. The reason for this was that I really couldn't be bothered since I've been playing a 10.3 beta and it runs beautifully. Seems its less buggy than the release version of 10.2.8! ;-)

  • Pretty Sad. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by aosgood ( 318737 )
    This is a pretty sad scenario considering that only have one platform to take care of. Not like they have to run around and check bug fixes, enhancements with other OEM's
  • "After updating to Mac OS X 10.2.8, my Apple Cinema Display's resolution defaulted to 1600x1024 (it was previously 1600x1200), and the choice of 1600x1200 is no longer available at all within the Displays System Preference. The 1600x1200 option is just completely gone."

    Yup, I'm having this problem. In fact, my entire Apple Cinema Display is missing, i.e. completely gone! Oh wait, that's because I don't even own an Apple Cinema Display. Never-mind, my bad.

  • What's with the function keys and OS X updates? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by phch ( 398574 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @11:46PM (#7075676)
    I didn't really have any serious problems with 10.2.8. The only odd thing was that I had to reboot one extra time because the screensaver kicked in and somehow hanged the machine. After that I repaired permissions (don't know why this helps, but it does) and everything was fine.

    Except the function keys. For some reason, Apple insists on using the function keys for things like changing sound volume and turning up and down the screen brightness. I prefer being able to remap the function keys for applications, especially Emacs. The only way I know of to reclaim the function keys is to reboot into OS 9, toggle the boxes in the keyboard control panel, and then reboot into OS X. However, every software update of OS X forces me to repeat this process. That means three reboots on average for each software update (four this time, due to the problem above), which is pretty irritating given how slow my PowerBook starts up.

    What I find curious is that although this is a longstanding issue, relatively few Mac users complain about it. I suppose it has something to do with most Mac users being accustomed to a mouse-centric experience rather than a keyboard-centric user interface. Or do people really need to change their screen brightness that often?
    • It sounds like the update may twiddle something on open firmware. It may be uunavoidable, but some digging around on setting the keymapping in OF may save you two reboots (one to OS 9, one to OS X).
    • For some reason, Apple insists on using the function keys for things like changing sound volume and turning up and down the screen brightness.

      Yes, that's really weird. If Apple wanted a truely consistent user experience, why even label them as function keys at all? Just do like a PC-style "multimedia keyboard" once and for all.

      Anyhow, have you tried Doublecommand [sourceforge.net]? You should be able to adjust those kinds of options without rebooting.

  • why complaints are few (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Many posters are saying that the upgrade worked fine for them. In fact, this is true for me. I upgraded my PowerBook G4 and I'm fat and happy.

    But think about it--those who were affected got their ethernet knocked out. They *can't* post their complaints to slashdot.

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