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Music Businesses Media Apple

Euro iTunes Store Delayed 92

Posted by pudge from the there-is-no-good-music-in-europe-anyway dept.
pnjman writes "Due to the record labels being unable to agree licencing issues, the European iTunes music store has been put back until at least next year."
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Euro iTunes Store Delayed More

Euro iTunes Store Delayed

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  • Ah-ha! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Wuffle ( 651894 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @05:18PM (#6306879) Homepage
    The inability of the record monopolies to embrace the internet strikes again!

    • Re:Ah-ha! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by 0x0d0a ( 568518 ) on Friday June 27, 2003 @03:23AM (#6309241) Journal
      I have to salute you. For the first time in recent memory, someone's made a legitimate "the record companies are out of touch with technology" post. This isn't just a "I'm not getting free music, so the record companies suck" post, but a good point.

      • Re:Ah-ha! (Score:3, Insightful)

        by byolinux ( 535260 )
        I think part of the problem comes from the fact that artists are on different labels in different countries. With the potential for different labels in different parts of Europe, it may result in a UK iTMS, a French iTMS, etc.

        • Re:Ah-ha! (Score:3, Interesting)

          by sebi ( 152185 )
          ...it may result in a UK iTMS, a French iTMS, etc.

          Just like XBox live which is available in some European countries, coming to others later this year and not even on the horizon for the rest. I live in one of the smaller countries (but one where live is coming soonish). So I might soon have to watch friends in other countries using ITMS while I can't. As long as it's US only I don't care that much, because I don't actually know any Americans.

          As far as my tastes are concerned there is good music in Euro

    • Ok, if I as an American buy music from the iTunes store, I'll be able to use that music on up to three computers. Right?

      I cannot recall any restriction saying one of those couldn't be my laptop with me on a European trip, or even a computer that I have at a European office.

      So anyone who wants to obtain this material without going through a "European" iTunes store can simply set up an account with an American ISP and buy it there, then transfer the file themselves.

      Or decide that that is too much tr

      • More or less right. The way the restriction works is, to use the iTMS, you have to have a credit card with a billing address in the US. That's it. You can still take your music with you wherever you go (on your Mac, in your iPod, on CDs you've burnt, whatever); there aren't any kind of geographic restrictions on usage.

        Presumably, if Europeans (or anyone else outside the US) can get credit cards with billing addresses in the US, they should be able to use the iTMS as well. It's not tied to one's ISP at all

  • Dammit (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by chillmost ( 648301 )
    Dammit, rats, shit, sonovabitch, crap. That sucks but I can imagine what kind of legal hell Apple must be sifting through in order to sort it out.

  • Is it the pricing? (Score:3, Funny)

    by eMartin ( 210973 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @05:23PM (#6306921)
    What? So â.99 per song doesn't cut it?

  • Or Just In Case You Decide On Accuracy (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 26, 2003 @05:26PM (#6306946)
    The article doesn't know when it's going to happen.

    After Spetmeber is the msot definite term used.

    It "MAY" be sometime next year.

    Lot different than "at least next year." Makes it sound lik it's two years away or something.

  • Bad for Apple (Score:3, Insightful)

    by maxentius ( 603949 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @05:31PM (#6306984)
    Now that Jobs scared the competition into action, he's got to keep the machine growing. International iTunes store access -- and Windows access -- are critical to maintain the early victory.

    • Overblowing it a bit? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Llywelyn ( 531070 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @06:08PM (#6307217) Homepage
      This is blatant hyperbole.

      Windows access is relatively critical, but only from the perspective of competing with whatever MS manages to cobbel together that actually has a chance of competing (I haven't seen anything yet) and will likely have very little to do with the long term life-and-death of the project as it stands now (the record companies seem happy with the deal, and so long as they have the big-5 and the big-5 remain profitable, Apple will probably not have to float the store).

      International access, on the other hand, is in no-way critical to whether the project succeeds or whether Apple succeeds. The problems are the laws in other countries which are not conducive to this kind of pricing scheme, as well as the international contracts and licensing issues surrounding distribution of media.

      If Apple and the big-5 are having trouble with it, so will anyone else who wants to expand across country boundaries.

      Thus, the two *most* critical issues for the iTunesMusicStore, at this stage, are:

      1) Getting more labels aboard (they seem to be doing an admirable job at getting this set up).

      2) Getting iTunes ported to Windows (once again).

      These would be the "logical next steps" to remain in front of the pack. International access is more of a nicety that is not overly critical for their success (though I'm sure they want to do it as quickly as possible--more profits are never a bad thing).

    • Re:Bad for Apple (Score:5, Funny)

      by commodoresloat ( 172735 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @07:19PM (#6307633)
      Yes I agree. The company is downright beleagured!!!

  • HA HA EUROPE J00 SUX0R! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by AvantLegion ( 595806 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @05:41PM (#6307044) Journal
    (waits for someone to mod "Troll" before even reading)

    It's too bad that licensing has been so difficult for Apple in Europe. It seems like this will be a roadblock for any kind of digital content distribution service.

    If you accept flat-rate, simple click-and-download content distribution as the future, then it is obviously necessary to re-think the "every little European country is licensed differently" international licensing model.

    Otherwise, imagine some of the weirdness you could pull off... imagine remotely accessing a machine in Finland, using that machine to download from Apple's store at a cheaper rate than your home country, and then downloading from the Finland machine to yours. I'm not familiar with the security measures that might combat this, but I imagine any that are in place could probably be circumvented.

    • Credit Cards (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Llywelyn ( 531070 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @05:56PM (#6307155) Homepage
      "imagine remotely accessing a machine in Finland, using that machine to download from Apple's store at a cheaper rate than your home country, and then downloading from the Finland machine to yours. "

      This would probably be countered the same way that it is being handled now to prevent people from buying music this way from Finland by routing through a US American server--by checking the credit card address.

      Thus, if your credit card has a home address in Estonia (and a Credit Card *is* required to use the store), then you won't be able to use the iTunes store through Finland after Finland is included in the plan or through the United States today.

  • What about a Canadian store? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Drakonian ( 518722 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @05:45PM (#6307075) Homepage
    Probably not a priority - it took FOREVER to get a Canadian Apple Store.
    • What aboot it, eh?

      ... sorry.

    • There are plenty of states that don't have Apple Stores. You'll probably get yours before North Dakota, but Oregon is definitely ahead of you in line.

      What? Did you say something to me? Yeah, that's what I thought.

  • "from the there-is-no-good-music-in-europe-anyway" (Score:4, Funny)

    by AvantLegion ( 595806 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @05:45PM (#6307080) Journal
    from the there-is-no-good-music-in-europe-anyway dept

    Geez, we should mod the story post as Troll.

  • No good music in Europe? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Trurl's Machine ( 651488 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @05:51PM (#6307128) Journal
    from the there-is-no-good-music-in-europe-anyway dept.

    The problem is not that European music cannot be sold in iTunes Music Shop, the problem is that the Europeans cannot buy anything in it (regardless the country of origin). Actually, iTunes MS is full of European music (at least if you count Britons as Europeans, which is sometimes a matter of debate).
  • Slashdot is too Euro-centric.

  • Well (Score:5, Funny)

    by Znonymous Coward ( 615009 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @06:08PM (#6307215) Journal
    ...record labels being unable to agree...

    Imagine that. I mean who would have thought the record labels, of all people, would have a problem with being unable to agree?

  • Majors giving time for M$ to catch up! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by curious.corn ( 167387 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @06:15PM (#6307265)
    It's pretty obvious don't you think? M$ marketoid drones must have flooded those executive meetings recommending the corporate managers to wait for WMP DRM "It'll-be-available-really-soon". The temptation to license 3 copies, one for the car, one for the sitting-room and one for the portable media whatnot is too compelling. Otherwise why did those "artists" complain that their concepts' complexity was crippled by one-song downloads? (hypocrites... radio pass has already done this; else why don't we hear 15+min tunes more often?) That was meant to be part of a bullet list in a powerpoint presentation... Sheesh... this damn greed is literally changing my musical tastes; once I used to dig Metallica and HM (say, at the times of Justice for All) but now I'm all into electronica subculture... there's less MTV colonization!
  • offer one euro downloads, isn't this why they (europe) went to one currency? Let the record companies figure out how to divide their 60% that they get. Seems easy enough for me.

    • Re:why is this difficult? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by 6hill ( 535468 ) on Friday June 27, 2003 @11:56AM (#6312390)
      offer one euro downloads, isn't this why they (europe) went to one currency?

      Well, for starters, only 12 of the current 15 EU countries have adopted the euro, and there's still about 30 countries in Europe that are not EU members, all with their own currencies. Granted, using the euro as the default currency in iTMS would capture the core Central European market, but it would also leave countries from the UK to Bosnia-Herzegovina without iTMS access. So enabling the use of all local currencies seems the only rational way to go.

      Anyhow, I don't think the point was the myriad of currencies used in Europe, but the complexities of getting to record companies to agree (colour me surprised).

      • Thanks for your reply but this exactly what I meant. Why would the international record companies that have already signed on for the iTMS not want to expand the market, what is there that could be lost? Isn't Britiney's latest CD distributed in London and Minsk by the international arms of the companies that distribute it here in the US? I can see problems getting new foreign based companies to sign on (for the same reasons I suspect that american companies were reluctant), but now it's a proven busines

  • Haha! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by psavo ( 162634 ) <psavo@iki.fi> on Thursday June 26, 2003 @06:32PM (#6307379) Homepage
    I can't help but quote Simpsons:
    Haha! Suckers.
    I can't believe how this is feasible for them. From my POV, they're loosing money here all this time the iTunes store isn't running in Europe. I think they'll have a lot to explain to shareholders, eg. 'Why didn't you pursue this business model as soon as it showed it's potential?'.
    • You, sir, are ignorant.

      "they're loosing money here all this time the iTunes store isn't running in Europe. "

      Hardly. They aren't making as much as they could, but they are not "losing money" because they are not in Europe.

      "I think they'll have a lot to explain to shareholders, eg. 'Why didn't you pursue this business model as soon as it showed it's potential?'."

      Not Apple's problem--there are laws and licensing issues involved that they are attempting to negotiate their way through. These are a more maj

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @06:34PM (#6307389)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:Reading the article... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ChuyMatt ( 318775 ) <<moc.cam> <ta> <myuhc>> on Thursday June 26, 2003 @11:15PM (#6308607)
      Um... as one who just came back from an EU country and visited the EU buildings themselves, not to mention studying my brains out about it, this is just what the EU is for. to be treated like one *financial* country. What is more, having total-european standards for every shared product is a major part of that. With that goes the using of standard policies on things such as copyright and telecom and such. In practice, it is a tad more complicated, but that is just because their policies are more French, ie: artist work integrity centered instead of focus on profit and poorly worded royalties contracts. Probably something like the % that goes to the actual artists are what is holding this deal back.
    • > somewhat common mistake of treating Europe
      > as a country. It isn't.

      Yet...
    • Actually, the music industry does see Europe as one country or 'territory', with the exception of Britain. The whole globe is divided into these territories. I'm not sure why it's taking so long, at least there should be a British model spun out pretty soon, Euroland later, seeing as Britain and USA share the same recording companies for the most part. I'm surprised that Apple haven't targetted Australia / New Zealand as a great territory to test-bed on, same language, few record companies - ideal!
  • This just goes to show how deluded is the common idea that "Cyberspace" is a real place, above and separate from the real world, immune to national boundaries, laws and so forth. The internet might provide an efficient and (apparently) "free" means of communication between people in different nations, but if enterprises are going to do business "on" the internet then they have to play within the various frameworks of the existing nation states that us 6 billion people have formed ourselves into. Oh, and PS

  • Take what they can get (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fingers1122 ( 636011 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @07:34PM (#6307703)
    The record labels should take whatever they can get. Basically, they have two options: (1) Get some money when people legally download songs. -or - (2) Get no money when people download songs illegally with p2p clients. The record companies are getting greedy; they should take what they can get and be happy!

  • this *will* hurt the music inductry (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mousehouse ( 610712 ) on Friday June 27, 2003 @01:54AM (#6309073) Homepage Journal
    the failure of the music business to get a grip on new models of doing business is, again, shocking. i'm having a hard time coping with it! (a) for one, the record companies themselves have made these completely different contracts by country. in order to maximize profits they have agreed on different pricing per country. i understand that there are legal differences, and that from a legal point of view the contracts are difficult and different also but anyways. i feel that the record companies should make a move towards apple (and maybe others as well) to set this up. (b) the prices of CD's is very high here in Europe. partly that is because of higher taxes, but the biggest cut still goes to the record companies. this encourages p2p filetrading as all internet-literate people *know* how much a CD is in the US. (c) the failure to give the rest of the world the same access to (legal) onlne music *will* hurt the music industry. because of all the different legal systems it is nearly impossible to go after the big traders, unlike the RIAA in the US. the situation in Est-European countries is even more difficult! my guess is that apple would do wise to crack the European market one-by-one and force the record companies to come up with a solution on their end (by forcing 1 pricing schema!!!). start with the UK and Germany (big markets and easier law). Move on to the other ones, eg. the countries where apple stores are in place so you are a legal entity already. ....

  • For once ex-pats win (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 27, 2003 @03:47AM (#6309276)
    ITMS does not know where I live and I have credit cards on both continents.

  • European Music Store, what about individual ones? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Hackie_Chan ( 678203 ) on Friday June 27, 2003 @08:04AM (#6310202)
    One thing that kind of piss me off is that Apple has decided that the whole European Union will get one big European Music Store. That really sucks because that mean that either the store will be flooded by German or French-singing artists that rest of Europe don't have any clue who the hell they are, or that these artists who happen to sing in their own language get sacked from the store. Now as a Swedish person I'd like to have some Swedish Hip Hop in the store, but since Swedish Hip Hop isn't selling outside of Sweden -- I doubt that they would even think about. This is kind of stupid in my opinion, and I would like to see a Music Store per country instead. To not only launch it faster, but to please the consumers more specifically in each country.

  • I'm in the US but... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by iomud ( 241310 ) on Friday June 27, 2003 @08:16AM (#6310311) Homepage Journal
    How many more boats do record labels have to miss? Here you have a service people people use and like and they're likely quibbling about a few cents.
  • From CNN [cnn.com]

    Yahoo! music tunes into Europe

    Wednesday, June 25, 2003 Posted: 5:14 AM EDT (0914 GMT)

    LONDON, England (Reuters) -- U.S. Internet media company Yahoo Inc. said it is debuting its popular music service Launch in Europe, its first crack at the region's burgeoning online music market.

    Launch Music carries free and subscription-based programming ranging from music videos to artist interviews to streaming music, which it is bringing to Europe as high-speed broadband Internet usage reaches mass m

  • This is not really the music industrie's fault. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dustpuppy_de ( 322556 ) on Friday June 27, 2003 @09:10AM (#6310783) Homepage
    Reading through the comments i find lots of statements along the line of "The music industry again doesn't get it" or so, but few seem to realize what all this is really about.

    As far as I understand it, it's not only the greedy music managers that are keeping the iTMS Europe from opening. It's basically a structural difference between (continental) European author's rights and copyright in the USA.

    The difference is quite obvious. If you have the right to copy some book, or painting, or piece of music or whatever, you can simply give it away. It's not bound to some special person. If I buy the copyright of some work of art it's as good as if I were the artist myself (at least such contracts are possible under the copyright sort of law).

    In the concept of author's right, you can't sell any rights. You can allow someone to publish your work, or copy it, or whatever you could think of, but you always keep your author's right, because you are the author, and there is no amount of money in the world that could make someone else the author.

    As a consequence this means that, when a new method of publishing emerges (like the internet), the record company has to come back to the artist and ask him, if he would kindly allow the use of this new method now, too - simply because "the internet" isn't mentioned in the old contracts and the company never had the possibility to simply buy "all rights". (It should be possible to have a contract that allows all forms of publishing, but I think that is pretty unusal).

    So, I think the managers do know by now that there's a lot of money to make with the iTMS, and they'd be more than happy to make it possible, but the real problem is to get thousands of artists to sign new contracts.

    But, then again, im am (happy) not (to be) a lawyer, and I could be wrong.
  • Netflix seemed to open a can of worms when they got a patent for selling DVDs online in a subscription basis, etc. Why can't Apple get a similar patent like that? Are they not the first to sell songs for 99 cents without a subscription? I think if done right this would limit the competition in what they can do, or at least down the road if cyclops (MS) follows suit they will have to make it not infringe.

    Anyone else agree?

  • 5 million isn't good enough for them? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by chia_monkey ( 593501 ) on Friday June 27, 2003 @10:34AM (#6311610) Journal
    I find it odd that the initial success of iTMS here in the US isn't good enough for the EU to say "ok, they were a good test bed. We let them take the risk, now we'll jump on". What exactly are they waiting for (aside from what the article says...which I think is just a bunch of sad excuses).

    I also find it ironic that in that very article, they're talking about how the P2P networks are trading thousands of tracks per day, thus people aren't buying CDs. Um...hello...doesn't it just seem like common sense to hurry up and get this set up so you can get SOME money?

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