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Networking (Apple) Businesses Apple Hardware

TiVo and Rendezvous 270

Posted by pudge from the gimme-gimme-some-lovin dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Just found this press release on the Apple web site. Time to upgrade the TiVo?" Looks way excellent. Right now I have an old iBook sitting on top of the TV, and it streams MP3s via AirPort from the server. But it would be so much better to just listen to the MP3s through the TiVo instead ... and have access to my iPhoto albums too? Sweet. But I would still want it to be wireless: Josuah writes "Alex King has set up his TiVo 2 to download its meta information over his 802.11b network, instead of the landline. He's got step-by-step instructions up." I'd probably want to use 802.11g though ... lots of data, this is.
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TiVo and Rendezvous More

TiVo and Rendezvous

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  • Sonic Boom (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:07PM (#5047680)
    You can do all this today (and more) with a Replay TV, a wireless lan, and a handful of free (and excellent) tools from Sourceforge. Plus archiving video to your PC and burning to DVD, if you have the hardware.

    • Re:Sonic Boom (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No, you cannot do this because what Tivo and Rendezvous does is automatically give the Tivo access to your media on your computer with absolutely 0 set up at all. If your computer is simply powered on and attached to your network and running OS X 10.2 or later it will be completely automatic. That means, you'll be able to just buy a Mac and a Tivo and have nothing to configure.

      nothing to configure... That means something to some people.

      • Re:Sonic Boom (Score:2, Interesting)

        by AKnightCowboy ( 608632 )
        If your computer is simply powered on and attached to your network and running OS X 10.2 or later it will be completely automatic. That means, you'll be able to just buy a Mac and a Tivo and have nothing to configure. nothing to configure... That means something to some people.

        Does security mean anything to anyone anymore? What are the security implications of Rendezvous?

        • Re:Sonic Boom (Score:3, Insightful)

          by h0tblack ( 575548 )
          Does security mean anything to anyone anymore? What are the security implications of Rendezvous?

          Rendezvous currently only broadcasts availibility of services within a single subnet. This will change in the future though, then there would be the possibility of you broadcasting the availibility of services to the entire world. Of course, this happens already with such things as NetBIOS, and is a problem - mainly for users who don't understand networking concepts. But, this isn't a new situation, people do need to be better informed regarding security, but this is a seperate issue which needs addressing.

          Rendezvous (and more specifically the zeroconf working group) is not there to increase security, it's to make networking and service discovery easier for people. That isn't to say that security isn't important and that it isn't something which the working group take seriously. But Rendezvous really doesn't harm security, certainly no more than a variety of other standards such as NetBIOS and UPnP.

          If an individual or company is worried about security, then they should have a policy regarding this and methods to implement it, regardless of what OS, protocols, etc they are using.

    • Plus archiving video to your PC and burning to DVD, if you have the hardware.


      Does your ReplayTV send its content to your PC through its NIC? According to what I've been reading, it will officially only send it to other Replay TV boxes. And unlike Tivo hacking, I haven't read of anyone successfully modifying their ReplayTVs to do this, either.

      Or were you just referring to the ability to use a capture board on your PC, which is something you can do with Tivo and your VCR and lots of other stuff?

      • Re:Sonic Boom (Score:3, Interesting)

        by uradu ( 10768 )
        > And unlike Tivo hacking, I haven't read of anyone successfully modifying their ReplayTVs to do this, either.

        That's because there's no hacking required on your ReplayTV box itself. ReplayTVs identify themselves "securely" to each other when requesting shows, and if you can impersonate a legitimate ReplayTV unit successfully, a unit will simply stream content to you. That's what the show grabbing software for the ReplayTV does, and it actually requires much less work than the Tivo.
        • if you can impersonate a legitimate ReplayTV unit successfully, a unit will simply stream content to you.


          And how do you do that? Seriously, this one reason why I put off buying either box.

    • Re:Sonic Boom (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Twirlip of the Mists ( 615030 ) <twirlipofthemists@yahoo.com> on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:43PM (#5047954)
      Heh. I like it. "That thing that Rendezvous will let you do with zero configuration? Oh, you can do the very same thing today with this list of obscure tools and a couple of weekends of hacking work."

      That, ladies and gentlemen, is why Rendezvous is a good thing. ;-)
      • Of course, in fairness, I can do those things with my ReplayTV TODAY, while Rendezvous/TiVO integration is still press-release-ware. :-)

        And yes, I am biased, as I am a ReplayTV zealot... ;-)

        • Re:Sonic Boom (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Sethb ( 9355 )
          I've got two TiVos, series 2 standalones, had two series 1 boxes before these. Honestly, I'm not trying to start a flame war, but I've been tempted to get a Replay for the show-sharing capability. I have a fast broadband connection 1.5Mbps upload speed, so I actually could send the files to friends fairly quickly.

          The one thing holding me back, is that compared to the TiVo devices, it's harder to tell what Replay is going to record. TiVo has the priority season pass list and the ToDo list, and I purposefully have a lot of conflicts set up in my list, so that if Fear Factor is a re-run, it'll record Antiques Roadshow, or if there's a conflict with the Sunday night episode of Oz, TiVo will grab the Tuesday night episode.

          From everything I've read, Replay seems to be hit-or-miss about which show it will record, and there's no easy way to see what it is going to choose exactly. That, to me, is the only reason I haven't jumped on Replay. I have a TV with component connnections, and I know Replay offers that as an option on one of their models.

          I'd also miss the Suggestions that TiVo records too, but I could live without those. I couldn't deal with ambiguity in the program scheduling though...

          Am I wrong, or is there a way to manage this?

          Thanks!

          • Re:Sonic Boom (Score:3, Informative)

            by JohnA ( 131062 )
            Very good point. Based on my experience, the priority of recording on the ReplayTV is as follows:
            1. Guaranteed Specific Show & Time Slot Channel
            2. Guaranteed Specific Show Channel
            3. Guaranteed Keyword Based Channel
            4. Not Guaranteed Specific Show & Time Slot Channel
            5. Not Guaranteed Specific Show Channel
            6. Not Guaranteed Keyword Based Channel
            While this lets you better plan how to set up your channels, the replay still lacks the ability to view what shows are to be recorded.

            While it can be confusing, I feel that the benefits of the RTV outweigh the negatives. Although now that the RTV has a monthly fee, and Tivo 2 series has the capability to utilize ethernet, the advantages of the RTV are far less than they once were (Listening SonicBlue???)

            If you have any other questions, let me know.

    • Re:Sonic Boom (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      ReplayTV indeed works great with the Mac. I got a 5xxx series for XMas and was archiving video to the Mac within a couple of days.

      Google around a bit and you can get it up and running with dumps of video to your Mac -- MPEG/MP3 video files that can be converted to VCD/SVCD/DVD. It's sweet!

      The thing that ReplayTV needs to get that is NOT available but is touted by the TiVo Rendezvous solution is the ability to get to your MUSIC library (read: iTunes). This would be a great step for the ReplayTV to take as well and I have been trying to find a way to contact them to make the suggestion.

      Having your PVR also act as a music jukebox for your main entertainment room would be excellent.

    • Where can I find out how to do this?

  • MS (Score:5, Funny)

    by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:07PM (#5047685) Homepage Journal

    From: billg@microsoft.com
    To: Research and Development

    I don't pay the two of you in R&D to play Quake all day! Find out what this Rendezvous is and copy it! I'll prepare a hot press release announcing it today. Be ready to ship by 2006.

    Thanks,

    Bill
    • I don't pay the two of you in R&D to play Quake all day! Find out what this Rendezvous is and copy it! I'll prepare a hot press release announcing it today. Be ready to ship by 2006.

      So *thats* when the BOFH and PFY really are!

    • Re:MS (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Elwood P Dowd ( 16933 ) <judgmentalist@gmail.com> on Thursday January 09, 2003 @02:00PM (#5048497) Journal
      Find out what this Rendezvous is and copy it!

      If I understand correctly, when Rendezvous was first announced, everyone said that Microsoft's Universal Plug 'n' Play (UPnP) has all the same features, is TCP/IP based, etc., and had been out for a while already. The differences that I know of are: 1) Microsoft didn't hire the ZEROCONF guy, so it's not an IETF standard 2) One additional features was a remote root hack, solved a couple of months ago. 3) I haven't heard of anyone using it. Including Microsoft Windows XP filesharing.

      The key similarity is that (IIRC) Open Source. Free as in BSD-type-License.

  • pr0n use? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:07PM (#5047686)
    Find a way to use this for pr0n, and it'll be an instant success.

  • mmmMMMmm (Score:5, Funny)

    by plexxer ( 214589 ) on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:12PM (#5047733)
    >I'd probably want to use 802.11g though ... lots of data, this is.

    Talk like Yoda Slashdot editors now do.

  • Broadcast to other TiVos? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nullard ( 541520 ) <nullprogram@voic ... d.cc minus punct> on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:13PM (#5047735) Journal
    Can I broadcast whatever I want to my neighbor's TiVO? Can my neighbor watch my slideshows w/out me knowing?

    This may open the door for simple pirate TV stations using 802.11, TiVos, and Macs.
    • This may open the door for simple pirate TV stations using 802.11, TiVos, and Macs.

      Or just use an old VCR, a booster, and a roof ariel aimed at everyone else.

      Be a nice excuse though. "Yes dear, I just turned on the TV and there was all this porn there, it must be next door!"
    • I've taken my (Korean) satellite TV feed, sent it to my G4, and piped it right back out...onto the internet, using QuickTime Streaming Server and Broadcaster (both free from Apple).

      Only I'm using Firewire and a Sony DV cam to get it into the Mac. What would a TiVO get me, I wonder...maybe better control over the source?

      Now to figure out a way to change TV stations remote, via a web browser, and I'm set :)

  • 802.11g for meta information? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by JUSTONEMORELATTE ( 584508 ) on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:15PM (#5047757) Homepage
    Two questions:
    1 - Where do you live that 11Mb/s is the bottleneck between your Tivo and the backbone? I count myself lucky to have 640k down/128 up DSL.
    2 - Just how much meta information do you need to download to this thing that you need 22Mb/s? Or do you really need to refresh all program info for all 400 DBS channels every second?

  • Rendezvous (Score:3, Funny)

    by jaavaaguru ( 261551 ) on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:18PM (#5047775) Homepage
    Rendesvous sounds like Windows Network Neighborhood done properly :-)

    • Re:Rendezvous (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Twirlip of the Mists ( 615030 ) <twirlipofthemists@yahoo.com> on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:50PM (#5048005)
      Actually, and in all seriousness, it's like AppleTalk for IP. AppleTalk was great, but had problems, not the least of which being that it was proprietary. Windows networking-- Network Neighborhood and all that-- was a horrible copy of AppleTalk. Now here comes Rendezvous, which combines the ease of use and convenience of AppleTalk with the goodness of IP without having to suck.

      Gonna change the world, man.

      Here's just one example of why Rendezvous is cool. Safari has Rendezvous support built-in. I have a friend who works for a company that builds web applications; their apps run on Apache, and they have dozens and dozens of development servers in their lab, all with names like SVR-LAB-01-A-342 and stuff like that. Keeping track of which server is running what, and on what ports, is a nightmare. So I set him up with mod_rendezvous yesterday. Now everybody who uses Safari (which is like half the damn company already) gets a nice list of all the currently running servers on his bookmarks screen. All you have to do is pick the one you want.

      I'll say it again. Rendezvous is gonna change the world.
      • Where can I find mod_rendezvous?

        And yes, I checked google. :P It returned no documents. I also couldn't find it on modules.apache.org, unless I'm missing something...
      • For the record: SMB could not possibly have been a "horrible copy of Appletalk", since SMB (windows networking) predates it. The SMB protocol was invented to allow interconnectivity between unix and dos machines. Meanwhile, appletalk over IP from my standpoint as a network analyst is a pain the arse, which is why we are phasing out Appletalk routing soon. Part of the reason is that appletalk is so damned chatty and actually increases load on the router because appletalk expects every client (including the router) to keep track of every device on the network it can see. So while a local client sees only the devices on its subnet (Of course, I won't forget to mention that every appletalk client broadcasts one name for each appletalk service that the client is running - multiple nameservices, file sharing etc.), appletalk routing is dumb in the fact that all addresses are cached.

        Furthermore, your ease-of-use argument doesn't make sense, as smb browsing in network neighborhood is just as easy as appletalk browsing via chooser or some other util. On the unix side, netatalk handling is far more complex than smb, with reasons demonstrated above. (Try using nmblkup under netatalk on a reasonably sized appletalk zone).

  • this is just the beginning (Score:2, Informative)

    by Fict ( 475 )
    Having done a bit of consulting work for Apple over the past few months, I can provide just a bit of insider info...

    For starters: 802.11g enabled iPods. A video compression format tight enough to let you put a whole goddamn star trek movie marathon on said iPod. How? Easily, and the video quality is *almost* up to dvd standards.

    It's going to be cool. Collaboration with TiVO, too...

    • Re:this is just the beginning (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Twirlip of the Mists ( 615030 ) <twirlipofthemists@yahoo.com> on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:53PM (#5048030)
      No offense, but I think you're full of shit. An iPod holds 20 GB today, and presumably 40 GB real soon now. DVD's put about two hours into about 7 GB, at about 8 Mb/s. So you could store five DVD's without additional compression on a 40 GB iPod, and stream them over plain old AirPort, and still have room left over for some MP3's.

      So everything you describe could be done right now, with last year's technology. If Apple were planning to do it, they would have been doing it already.

      I'm not 100% sure, but I think you're full of shit.

      • No offense, but I think you're full of shit

        Not to mention, but one of the fastest ways to get fired at Apple is to mention unannounced products. Nothing like talking about an announced product on /. and then signing your post, especially in light of the recent contractor who was arrested for an anonymous submission of info.

        Bottomline--either this guy is lying, or dumb. I prefer to think that he's lying.
    • If you are telling the truth, you might want to have a look at this article [macrumors.com] about the most recent contractor who leaked sensitive Apple info on an Internet forum.

  • 802.11g (Score:5, Informative)

    by Chazmyrr ( 145612 ) on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:24PM (#5047823)
    I'd probably want to use 802.11g though ... lots of data, this is.

    If you could actually buy consumer grade 802.11g I would agree. At least at the prices currently listed on Amazon. $133.99 for the WAP54G is one helluva deal considering I didn't pay much less than that for each of my WAP11s about a month ago. Problem is that it isn't shipping yet.

    Thing is, I don't even use all the bandwidth on the WAP11s. I'm using them as a bridge to get from the cable modem on one side of the residence to the LAN on the other side. Since I only get 1.5 down from the cable modem, it doesn't really matter that much. Even if I went all wireless, it still wouldn't matter. The limiting factor will always be the cable modem.

    Still, anything that drives the prices down on 802.11b gear is a good thing. I'll go completely wireless as soon as I can PCI cards at something I consider to be a reasonable price.

    • Re:802.11g (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      If you could actually buy consumer grade 802.11g I would agree.

      FWIW, at the online Apple Store their 802.11g card is $99, which isn't bad at all, and will ship in "2-4 weeks". It's a mini-PCI form factor -- I think a couple non-Apple laptops have these, but I haven't seen a PCI-to-mini-PCI adapter. I wonder how hard it would be to write a driver for it...
    • Aren't the new Airport extremes out yet? Steve announced them, what... 48 hrs ago? :)

      Anyway, those are $200 (down from $300) and have a USB port for wireless printing. Not as cheap, but rather snazzy looking!
    • If you're using the wireless exclusively as a bridge to your cable modem, then that makes sense. Going from wired to wireless does not, however.

      For example, my linux server has all my important data on it, and I transfer a lot of data to my other computers regularly, and there's no way a wireless link will cut it, whether a,b or g.

  • You want to connect it to your Mac?! (Score:4, Funny)

    by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:25PM (#5047831) Journal
    No wonder your TiVo thinks you're gay. /me waves bye-bye to some karma.

  • Don't get excited (Score:3, Interesting)

    by pashdown ( 124942 ) <pashdown@xmission.com> on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:25PM (#5047833) Homepage
    The press release is very specific about streaming music and photos to and from the TiVo. It says nothing about remote viewing of shows. Every TiVo hacker wishes something like this was "built-in." However, it appears that television executives have more sway with TiVo than their customers.

  • Slashdot effect- Contents here (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:26PM (#5047838)
    Technology [slashdot.org] > Wireless TiVo Connection

    How to set up a Series 2 TiVo with an Apple AirPort (802.11b) Wireless Network
    Last Modified: January 9, 2003 @ 3:06 am

    Background

    When my DSL provider went out of business, I decided to go with cable modem instead of getting DSL with a different provider with the goal of getting rid of my landline phone altogether. With that change, the TiVo was the only thing I had that still needed a landline phone for. I use my cell phone (Treo 300, recommended) for just about everything anyway so if I could get the TiVo to get data over the internet via our home network, I could cancel my landline phone and save about $20 a month which more than justifies the cost of the TiVo, right? One problem - our network connections are all upstairs and the TiVo is downstairs. We do have a wireless network though... so I figured I'd give it a shot. I read up a bit on the tivocommunity.com [tivocommunity.com] message boards - basically, you connect a USB-to-Ethernet Adapter to the USB port on the TiVo, then connect a Wireless Ethernet Bridge to the USB-to_Ethernet Adapter. It took too many hours of tweaking and trial and error, but it finally works. I am quite pleased. I decided to write up the steps I took in hopes that it will help someone else who is trying to set up a similar configuration.

    I have gotten a lot of mail asking why I didn't just get the Linksys WUSB11 USB-to-Wireless adapter or a similar product. Unfortunately, you cannot currently use a USB-to-Wireless adapter with a TiVo as there is no way to properly configure the adapter. You can read more on this at tivocommunity.com [tivocommunity.com]. Although to be honest - I did not try myself, I took other people's word for it. If you somehow make it work, please let me know - it would be a lot cheaper and more convenient.

    My Network Configuration

    I have a DSL/Cable modem attached to the uplink port of a hub. I have an AirPort Base Station (which is acting as my router/DHCP server) attached to the hub, along with my desktop computer. I have several laptops connected to the network wirelessly. Desktop Computer (TiVo with USB->Ethernet->Wireless)//DSL/cable modem -- hub -- AirPort Base Station -- Laptop A\Laptop B

    Router: Apple AirPort Base Station serving DHCP
    AirPort Network Name (SSID): Alex's AirPort (for this example)
    WEP Security: none (for the sake of this example, however running a wireless network without encryption is not a good idea).

    Required Hardware

    • You need a PC (Virtual PC 5 worked for one reader) to run the WET11 setup program. Note to Mac Users: According to this article [linksys.com], you can configure the WET11 through a browser by connecting via ethernet, setting your computer's IP to 192.168.1.5 and sub 255.255.255.0, then going to http://192.168.1.225 in your browser. Thanks to Michael Dinsmore for the tip.
    • A USB to Ethernet Adapter, I used a LinkSys USB100M [linksys.com].
    • A Wireless Ethernet Bridge, I used a LinkSys WET11 [linksys.com].

    Configuring the WET11 to be a DHCP client

    1. Unpack the WET11.
    2. Set the switch on the back of the WET11 to quot;II (not X).
    3. Plug the WET11 into your wired network. I plugged mine into my hub.
    4. Launch the driver/setup program on a PC (or virtual PC) connected to the network (wired/wireless does not matter). Download Page [linksys.com] | Zip file [linksys.com] - or you can try accessing the WET11 from a browser using the default IP address (see the screenshot in the setup guide).
    5. In the setup program - follow these teps:
      - select the WET11 and click Yes
      - enter the password (default is admin) and click OK
      - choose Infastructure mode (not Ad-Hoc) and click Next
      - enter the name of your AirPort network into the SSID field (Alex's AirPort), all other settings can be left as is, and click Next
      - choose Automatically obtain an IP address (DHCP)
      - enter your security settings, in our example we leave it disabled
      - review your new settings, click Yes to save the changes
    6. Note: Your network may go a little screwy at this point until you disconnect the WET11 in the next step.
    7. This is important: you must unplug the power from the WET11 for a few seconds then plug it back in again to save the new settings. The directions say to reset the WET11 - they DO NOT mean for you to hit the reset button on the back of the WET11, this undoes all the settings you just entered and restores the factory defaults.
    8. Unplug the WET11 from the wired network.
    9. Set the switch on the back of the WET11 to X (not II).
    10. Now your WET11 is ready to go!

    Let's test the WET11 to make sure it is working on the network.

    1. Disconnect a computer from your network.
    2. Connect the WET11 to this computer with an ethernet cable (RJ45).
    3. Wait a few seconds and see if your computer is able to rejoin the network.
    4. If you get back on the network, you're set to go, disconnect the WET11 from the computer. If not, try rebooting with the WET11 attached. If it still doesn't work after rebooting, hit the reset button on the back of the WET11 and go back through the WET11 setup steps [slashdot.org].

    Connecting the TiVo

    Now we need to connect everything to the TiVo.

    1. Unpack the USB100M.
    2. Plug the USB100M into the top USB port on the TiVo.
    3. Plug in the WET11 to a power outlet.
    4. Attach the WET11 to the USB100M with an ethernet cable (RJ45).
    5. Restart the TiVo: Main Menu > Messages and Setup > Restart or Reset System > Restart the Recorder.
    6. Enter new dialing settings: Main Menu > Messages and Setup > Recorder & Phone Setup > Phone Connection > Change Dialing Options
    7. Leave Dial-In Number as is.
    8. Set Dial Prefix to ,#401 (comma - pound - four - zero - one).
    9. Set Call Waiting Prefix to nothing, leave it blank or erase what you have there.
    10. Set Tone/Pulse to Tone (I don't think this matters).
    11. Set 'Phone Avail. Detection to Off (again, I don't think this matters).
    12. Set Dial Tone Detection to On.
    13. Select Use these dialing options (at the top of the screen).
    14. Select Make Test Call.
    15. Cross your fingers, close your eyes, make a wish...
    16. Press the SELECT button...
    17. It worked right? I sure hope so... if not, pull the USB100M adapter out of the top USB port and insert it into the bottom USB port, then Restart the TiVo again (step 5 above) and go through the steps again.

    If you still can't get it working, unplug the WET11 from the TiVo and again verify that it is working when attached to a computer. To start over from scratch, you can hit the reset button on the back of the WET11 and go back through the WET11 setup steps [slashdot.org].

    I hope that this helps someone. If you know of another way to do this or have some related information, please let me know [slashdot.org].

    td colspan="2" valign="top

  • I'd probably want to use 802.11g though ... lots of data, this is.

    Definately. I have a wireless bridge setup similiar to Alex King's. (To get both my Tivo and PS2 networked) Extracting video from the Tivo is painfully slow over the 4Mbps(actual) 802.11b connection. Each hour of video is a little more than a gigabyte. It takes longer to download the video than the actual length of the show, so I guess streaming video would be out of the question, if the Tivo ever had the capability.

  • Regarding DirecTiVo (Score:5, Informative)

    by HiroProtagonist ( 56728 ) on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:28PM (#5047852) Homepage

    FYI this hack DOES NOT WORK with the DirecTiVo (Series 2s), as they have (stupidly) disabled the USB ports on the back of the device.

    There used to be a hack to get the USB ports working again and the DirecTiVo using a USB-to-Ethernet converter, but the newest version of the DTiVo operating system ( 3.1.0-01-2-151 ) wipes this hack out.

    When I got my HDVR2 last week and found this out, it really pissed me off because like many geeks, I have a cell phone ONLY, no land lines, just a Net connection. Had to drag my DTiVo over to a friends so that it could initialize properly.

    Anyways, be forwarned!!!

    There is hope in the future that Directv will stop being assholes and allow the USB ports to be used in the future, but that's all it is.... Hope.
  • I know it's been said before but I do all of that plus playing divx with the Qcast tuner (www.broadq.com) for my playstation2. All that you need is a ps2, nic, and a pc to push the content. The bonus is that you don't have to pay a monthly fee, the down side is that you loose the easy interface for recording that the tivo has.
  • ...who wanted to actually know what the press release was about before they loaded it, it is about rendezvous being adopted by Tivo (sounds like it hooks into iLife software), Brother (for printers) and Aspyr (games/software).

  • Juicy! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by webword ( 82711 ) on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:31PM (#5047869) Homepage
    Throw some technology together and get some interesting integration. Surprisingly, there is no mention of iPod in the announcement. Wouldn't it be nice to have a wireless connection to your iPod and stream that way too? Walk around the house or apartment with an almost infinite selection of streamed songs from your desktop or laptop. Eliminates the need for larger and larger storage on the iPod, at least while you are in range of the transmitter.

    Speaking of this idea, how many people know about the Dr. Bott iPod Connection Kit w/ FM Wireles Transmitter [macwichita.com]? Not the same thing, of course, but it still should get you thinking about other ways to extend and expand your devices. And, while I am off on a tangent here, wouldn't it be interesting to get RSS feeds on our various wireless web devices? ;-) If this is already being done, post some references here. I'd be interested to learn more about it.

  • Wireless TiVo is easy... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by NetJunkie ( 56134 ) <jason.nash@CHICAGOgmail.com minus city> on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:35PM (#5047896)
    I just did this the other night. I use a WAP11 in bridge mode to get wireless connectivity to my home theater. I just popped in a TurboNet card in the TiVo and I was set. Enabling telnet, FTP, and Web took 15 minutes.

    The problem is, 802.11b is sloooooow for pulling off video. An hour of video on a TiVo may be 2.8GB. When pulling vid over wireless it takes a LONG time... I usually either do it over night or just plug in to the switch behind the HT and get it off directly.

    For those wanting to do this check out TiVoApp. It's pretty much a one step vid extraction tool that'll dump anything in Now Showing to an mpeg file.

    • More Info.... (Score:3, Informative)

      by NetJunkie ( 56134 )
      For easy info on doing this chec:

      http://www.stevejenkins.com/tivo/newbie.html

      If all you want is to switch it from using a land line just put in the NIC (or connect a USB one for Series 2) and change the dial prefix to ,#401. That's it. I'm dropping my land line now thanks to this.

  • Discussion on tivo forums (Score:5, Informative)

    by gatekeep ( 122108 ) on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:35PM (#5047899)
    There's a discussion about this press release at the tivo forums - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.ph p?s=84c11bddf1300f950b6c97ad19d4e465&threadid=9446 9

    It seems the consensus is that since this is an apple press release, it doesn't preclude PC support, but means that mac's will be supported, probably in addition to PCs.

  • At last! (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anand_S ( 638598 )
    It took all night, but I finally got Debian installed on my TiVo. Where's my $200,000?
  • Better use Internet or walk...

  • What you can expect (real post) (Score:4, Insightful)

    by porkface ( 562081 ) on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:44PM (#5047964) Journal
    This won't allow you to share shows...yet. Although I can see a big market for being able to share shows within a household.

    This is for showing pictures and mp3s off your network, and if you think about the bandwidth of those things, 802.11b should be just fine. Program data doesn't usually exceed 5 MB (remember, TiVo was designed to do that over poor modem connections), and since it grabs 10 days ahead of Today and processes at 50 mhz (on series 1), an 802.11g connection isn't going to help.

    The other big feature that nobody's talking much about is one I have been using for awhile now. Remote scheduling. I have full remote management via the TivoWeb project (tivo.lightn.org), and love it. When I had a job, it was nice to be able to schedule something a coworker might mention, or something I had forgotten to schedule but was going to miss, without having to be at home to do it.

    I think this kind of interconnectivity can lead the way to seamless integration of set top boxes so that every TV in a home has one.

  • The Wireless Thing Is Easy ... (Score:4, Informative)

    by thedbp ( 443047 ) on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:52PM (#5048015)
    You can get your TiVO wireless if u so desire. fairly cheap, too:

    http://www.dlink.com/products/wireless/dwl810+/

    I'm liking this. This is the kind of integration that TiVo and the like needed to really grab average consumers. and since Rendevouz is open source, anyone can join the party :) thanks apple!

  • A few notes... (Score:5, Informative)

    by dr00g911 ( 531736 ) on Thursday January 09, 2003 @12:52PM (#5048016)
    But I would still want it to be wireless.

    I noticed this press release a few days ago [slashdot.org], as well. Been doing some research since then.

    You'll need a TiVo Series 2 [tivo.com] to make this work. No word on whether 3rd party TiVo 2s will be supported (like the Sony unit).

    Most everything below is an educated guess, so take with a grain of salt.

    I'm assuming after looking at the unit's connectivity that you'll need to get a TiVo USB->Ethernet adapter. No word as to whether other parties' USB->Ethernet or USB->802.11x adapters will work as of yet.

    I've already got a Linksys WET11 [linksys.com] hooked up to my Playstation 2 network adapter, bridging to my wireless LAN (iMac with connection sharing on via Airport card), so adding a cheap hub at my receiver isn't a big deal on my end.

    If you go this route, you'll need a Wintel box, or at the very least Virtual PC to properly configure the bridge (for the first time -- its http admin works on the Mac after initial setup) -- even though Linksys claims otherwise. Also, if you turn on encryption, keep in mind that you need to set up the Mac side to use the long-ass hex version of the password you pick (ie $AA2E43323B2300000) or the WET11 won't be able to get on. At the very least, lock your access point down to specific hardware addresses.

    As far as bandwidth concerns -- let's see -- MP3s ripped at 192k -- vs the 11 megabit bandwidth on 802.11b. I'm not seeing a problem here. Hell, a direct uncompressed dump to AIFF or WAV from a CD will only come in at 150k/second (ie 1x CD-ROM). That's 1.5 megabits of bandwidth -- for uncompressed audio.

    Back to the info -- this functionality seems to be part of a forthcoming firware upgrade for the series 2 models (which are currently shipping and on sale -- $199 for a 40 meg unit, $399 for an 80 with rebate).

    It also seems that they're hinting that LAN functionality is going to be part of a new 'tiered' pricing structure -- the veiled hint being "part of our premium service".

    At any rate, I'm in on this the moment it's available. I bought a Sony 200-CD jukebox about 5 years ago, and it's skipping horribly now and cleaning hasn't helped. I'm giddy at the thought of dropping it and just getting a 120-gig drive to take its place.

    Here's to hoping that TiVo's media center (or whatever they call it) UI is decent, and it supports iTunes playlists and iTunes browsing by artist, album and genre.

    I'd pay an extra $5 or so a month for that.

    One last hint:

    When ripping to iTunes, make sure your prefs are set to add track numbers to the filenames, otherwise your albums will play back in alpha order.

    --dr00gy
    • I've not heard of firewire upgrades for series 2s or of series 2s with firewire. All series 2s have USB, and AFAIK the "upgrades" will center around a USB->Ethernet adapter (which works now, actually, and can be used to replace dialup for daily calls).

      Everybody thinks that Tivo will now support moving video on to/off of the Tivos. I *highly* doubt this will ever be permitted due to copyright fears by Tivo and due to the inherent limitations of USB as the source of connectivity. Even at basic quality we're talking in the neighborhood of 2.5Mbit/sec, which is probably pushing the limits of what can be reliably streamed over a USB link.

      Even if you could drive the USB net link at max speeds (12Mbit/sec) you're talking hours to get a single basic-quality hour long mpeg onto or off of it. A firewire connection (or a GigE connector would help), but I suspect that Tivo is feeling a lot of heat from the entertainment industry to make extracting video only happen at 1x speed via analog video connections.
      • I believe he meant "firmware"--he was missing an "m", not an "e", in the original post. Guess he didn't turn on spellcheck in Safari--btw, why the hell doesn't that setting persist?


    • If you go this route, you'll need a Wintel box, or at the very least Virtual PC to properly configure the bridge (for the first time -- its http admin works on the Mac after initial setup) -- even though Linksys claims otherwise.

      Not having this linkys device, I'm interested to know what you tried to get it working--linksys does indeed claim that this will work, here [linksys.com]. (Also linksys Knowledge Base KB10934380). Did you follow those steps, or no?

      Finally, for those without easy access to Virtual PC--this kind of one-shot deal might be the kind of thing that you could go to your Apple Store for--they now have VPC running on some demo units, and aren't generally bad about letting one install software--it's all deleted every night anyways.
  • How about some Curse of Dark Magicians [geocities.com] Guaranteed to satisfy any Slashdotter, better than LoTR:FoTR 9 out of 10 Slashdotters agree.
  • ...is the ability to pull shows into my Mac, edit out the commercials, and burn the episodes to DVD for addition to my personal entertainment library. My 120GB-upgraded TiVo is chock full of my favorite New Twilight Zone and Outer Limits episodes that I'm keeping on there until a solution presents itself. If nothing concrete comes along by spring, I'll just buy one of those RCA A/V-to-FireWire boxes and do it all myself. But I'd rather use someone else's more elegant solution.

    ~Philly

    • Re:All I want... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by MightyTribble ( 126109 )
      Sounds like you want a ReplayTV, then. Using a niftly little utility called 'ReplayPC' (see sourceforge for details) and your out-of-the-box LAN-enabled ReplayTV 5xxx series, you can download shows recorded in DVD-compliant MPEG2 streams, edit them with the vid editor of your choice, and burn them to DVD. Lots of folks do this already.

      You can also upgrade Replay hard drives without hacing to "bless" them. :)

  • Tivo network hardware mods (Score:4, Informative)

    by RunzWithScissors ( 567704 ) on Thursday January 09, 2003 @01:14PM (#5048195)
    The only person at home who uses my home phone line is Tivo, everything else goes through the network connection or cell. So when a friend told me about some easy hardware mods, one of them is plug 'n go, I had to buy one. Check out 9th tee [9thtee.com]. They have a whole bunch of hardware upgrades for the Tivo including a wireless 802.11b ethernet card based on the prism chipset.

    The ISA ethernet card [9thtee.com] is plug 'n go if you're using Tivo software 3.0.x or later and have a first gen Tivo. The 802.11b wireless card [9thtee.com]is not quite as easy to install, but 9th tee has links to instructions [silicondust.com].

    -Runz

    • Re:Tivo network hardware mods (Score:4, Funny)

      by Skidge ( 316075 ) on Thursday January 09, 2003 @02:48PM (#5048838)
      The only person at home who uses my home phone line is Tivo

      I just got a Tivo for christmas. Am I going to start refering to him as a member of my household? Actually, I could almost see that, since tivo has made watching TV tolerable again with the ability to zip through the commercials at near light speed.

  • I Love Irony (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lamz ( 60321 ) on Thursday January 09, 2003 @01:32PM (#5048323) Homepage Journal
    I love the irony of two slashdot articles in a row, where one talks about Apple's Rendezvous, and the next talks about Microsoft's new 'Spot' wristwatch thingy. Apple's product is useful, open-sourced, and can provide benefits beyond Mac owners, since devices can communicate without a Mac or any Apple products at all. Contrast this with the Microsoft announcement: a clunky, expensive watch that will cost at least $100 year in service fees.

    Apple Press Release [apple.com]
    Microsoft Watch Article [businessweek.com]

    But there is something more going on here. Apple is returning to its roots, and to computing's roots, by giving away software in order to sell hardware. Microsoft sees the "free software" writing on the wall, and is desperately trying to sell hardware and services. Who's going to win?
    • You might want to look up irony in the dictionary. I don't think you understand what it means. Also, you don't seem to understand that pc's under Windows do more than Macs, based on the far greater software base (including this rendezvous feature). What's ironic is that you are criticizing the price of some MS toy when Apple charged you way too much for your Mac.
  • I've always thought that the way PVRs will simply delete old shows is not right. What they should do is re-encode old recordings to a lower quality, thereby taking up less space and making room for new recordings. The change could be gradual, e.g. go from "best" to "high" to "normal" to "low", and then finally delete the recording. The advantage would be that a recording could still be watched after many weeks, even if at a lower quality. Of course, none of these PVRs have the horsepower to do this, but if you have a desktop computer available somewhere, the recoding could be offloaded to it.
    • What they should do is re-encode old recordings to a lower quality, thereby taking up less space and making room for new recordings.

      Two things. First of all, there's only one (or at most two) MPEG encoder ASIC's in a PVR, so you'd only be able to transcode shows while the encoder was not in use. My TiVo is busy just about all the time, either recording stuff I asked for or stuff it thinks I'll like. So that won't work.

      Second, low-bit-rate MPEG transcoded to even-lower-bit-rate MPEG comes out looking like hammered shit. TiVo's picture quality is bad enough without multiple generations of increasingly constrained encoding making things even worse.

  • Apple is so close (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 09, 2003 @03:12PM (#5049042)
    to making it's digital hub strategy come true, and yet I don't understand why they don't just do it.

    All they have to do is allow the Mac to connect to the TV and let iMovie record stuff off the TV. Once they integrate iCal with iMovie, they've made the Mac the ultimate Personal Video Recorder.

    How many people own digital video cameras? And of those, how many actually have the patience to make a movie out of their footage? But everyone has a TV and everyone wants to record their favorite shows and movies and edit out the commercials and archive it to DVD. This is the killer app Apple has been looking for since the Laser Printer.

    Not only will it convince the average joe to buy a computer with a powerful processor and a large hard drive and a SuperDrive, it'll convince appliance manufacturer to adobt Rendezvous technology. It may also help Apple sell Airport base stations.

    iLife won't mean squat if Apple lets Microsoft integrate the computer with the TV first. Until the people see that they can increase the value of their TV by buying a Mac, the hub for digital lifestyle is just a pipe dream.

  • Today's TiVo Announcements from CES: (Score:4, Interesting)

    by maggard ( 5579 ) <michael@michaelmaggard.com> on Thursday January 09, 2003 @06:21PM (#5050739) Homepage Journal
    The last one is most relevant to the discussion here.

    Basically for $99 one can order a TiVo SW upgrade (secured with public/private keys) to allow your TiVo to stream mp3s, jpegs (incl. ones from Corbis), be remotely administered from a personal account on TiVo's website, and get some extra promo material. One can then get the upgrade for addt'l TiVos in the household at half-price and be able to stream shows between TiVos on the same account.

    All of this due in April, software for enabling the local mp3 & jpeg streaming to be available then, you can sign up to be notified when avaliable. Presumably these apps and the TiVos will use Rendezvous to find eachother.

    So: Extra cost paid upfront, secured software, able to share but only with other extra-package TiVos on the same account and not with the general 'net population. Oh yeah, and LinkSys is the preferred networking hw vendor.

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