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Desktops (Apple) Businesses Apple Hardware

Build Your Own Mac 374

Posted by pudge from the mmmm-tv dept.
DaytonCIM writes "TechTV has a great article by Kevin Rose on how to build your own Mac: 'When it comes to PCs, geeks usually make a decision between buying a prebuilt computer or building one, component by component. This isn't true when it comes to Macintoshes. You're stuck with whatever Apple has to offer, with only a few measly dollars differentiating the products from retailer to retailer.' It will be broadcast on The Screen Savers today."
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Build Your Own Mac More

Build Your Own Mac

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  • Hmmmm.... Haven't I seen this before? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Spy4MS ( 324340 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @04:55PM (#4925989)
    I think this was the link [macopz.com]

  • Honestly? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by RyuuzakiTetsuya ( 195424 ) <taiki@@@cox...net> on Thursday December 19, 2002 @04:56PM (#4925994)
    prebuilt, or open building isn't holding me back from using a Mac, the lack of software(*coughgamescough*) is. Geez, get it right. :)

    • The prices are not so good (Score:5, Interesting)

      by goombah99 ( 560566 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:27PM (#4926274)
      Logic board: $200 Sonnet CPU: $700 Video card : $220 Memory: $200 hard drive: $150 pro keyboard/optical mouse: 99 Operating system: 129 ___________ Not including any shipping thats' 1730 $ for a SINGLE PROCESSOR MACHINE already without a case, power supply, cd/dvd drive, or even any cables or power cords. Or you can get a DUAL CPU system assembled with an air port card, extra memory, and operaing system from mac mall for $1690
      • For the same $1730 you mentioned, I built the box I'm typing this with.

        Dual P3 Coppermines @1GHz, 1Gb pc133 ram, dual 80 Gb drives, Plextor CD-burner, n-Vidia GeForce4, 10/100 base-T, and 19" 1600x1200 ViewSonic CRT. Full-tower case and 450-watt power supply; runs cool and quiet.

        All brand-new parts.

        Oh yeah, and Linux ;)
      • I think you are missing the point here -- from a PC-geek's point of view. Most of us PC-geeks (and Mac-geeks, I guess, since I was the same when I used only Macs), have most of these components laying around everywhere waiting to be used. The point of building a PC instead of buying a pre-built one is that it's a cheaper entry into getting another computer (not your first one) using your old components. I would still argue that a put-together PC is way better than many cheaper pre-built PC's, but that's my opinion.

        So, if you want to get into a second (or third or fourth or nth computer ... like at my house) computer as cheaply as possible, you put together a Franken-puter from orphaned parts you have left over from upgrades to your primary computer. With this information in the article, I can put together a cheap G4 Mac for about $700 (cheaper 800MHz G4 CPU is $500, and the M/B is $200) and use parts that would otherwise collect dust in my house.

        At least it gives me the option if I want, because I can tell you right now I'm not paying $1000 more out-of-pocket for a pretty Apple G4 Mac when I don't have to. Ex-Mac users, curious PC users, and even budget-minded Mac users will all find this information useful...

      • Re:The prices are not so good (Score:5, Interesting)

        by SensitiveMale ( 155605 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @06:37PM (#4926781)
        Logic board: $200 Sonnet CPU: $700 Video card : $220 Memory: $200 hard drive: $150 pro keyboard/optical mouse: 99 Operating system: 129


        Dude, where are you buying stuff?


        I just got a Sonnet dual proc card for $400 NEW.

        ATi 8500 for $170 and you can even a GeForce2MX than supports dual displays for $40.

        1 Gig of RAM $65

        Just bought a 60 Gig 7200 RPM drive for $50

        Wireless USB keyboard/mouse $40 or get a decent keyboard for $40 and a Logitech mx700 for $42

        Jaguar OS $79

        CDRW 40X $40

        I understand your point and yes, it is better to buy a complete Mac, but you can always find quality parts for a discount if you look.

  • Build your own computer.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by nother_nix_hacker ( 596961 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @04:56PM (#4926001)
    I made my own but found I kept dropping the transistors on the carpet and losing them.

  • All I want to know... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Mitreya ( 579078 ) <mitreya.gmail@com> on Thursday December 19, 2002 @04:57PM (#4926006)
    ... is why a desk lamp is missing from the list of components :) These lamp-like macs would probably be the most fun ones to build...

  • EBay..... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Kenja ( 541830 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:00PM (#4926030)
    I was able to build a 500mhz G3 based iMac for under 300$ from parts I picked up on e-bay. I then installed it into a Marathon iRack 1U case.

  • It's not that hard... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Elbereth ( 58257 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:01PM (#4926034) Journal
    I did what this article describes. In an effort to minimize my investment, I bought the components individually from ebay and online stores, put it all together, and had a custom PowerMac. The problem is that some of those components aren't brand new, and they may very well fail. Then you're left with a cheap-ass PowerMac that needs a new power supply. And one of the PCI slots is a little flakey. And...

    It's easier to just buy a used PowerMac on ebay (or from a friend), which is what I ended up doing after I pieced together the parts individually. I still play around with that Frankenstein Mac, but it's not as useful as the used PowerMac.

    However, if you invest in newer parts, I think you'll have better success than me. The stuff I bought was pretty old (and damn cheap).
    • Come on spill.....
      How much dit it cost?
      • To tell the truth, I don't really remember. I spent a lot of money on buying 512MB RAM, a SCSI card, video card, chassis, etc. I guess altogether, it was probably around $300 for a 266 MHz G3. I was planning on taking it a lot higher, of course, but the low end G3 CPU let me test the components and make sure everything was working. And it was only $20 shipped. However, Apple then announced the 1 GHz PowerMac, and my 266 MHz CPU seemed very, very puny indeed. Well, suffice to say, I stopped investing money in that computer and decided to save up for something a little more powerful.
    • You said older parts are more likely to fail. I have to disagree. After a part has been in use for 6 months, the rate of failure drops signifigantly. This is due to all the parts being put under load for the first time as a unit. A transistor may pass it's own QoS test, but it may fail when it is combined with the heat produced by other components.

      After having worked in the telecom industry for about 10 years, I am more wary of a router fresh off the boat from Cisco than an old Cabletron Switch that has been in place longer than I have. I have DSFUs (telephone signalling equipment) that have been processing calls longer than I have been alive. But the new (still just as old, but never been out of the box) DSFUs that fail tend to do so within the first month.

      I'll trust the old video card I pull out of the bottom of my parts bin (which is currently stacked higher than most men stand) over a brand new GeForceFX any day. As long as the part wasn't crap to begin with, after 6 months of use, it'll last forever.

  • Save yourself $8.29 (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:02PM (#4926044)
    This 480 hours of labor saves you all sorts of money, even after you have to spend $20 on tools and junk that you need to jimmy the stuff together.

  • MacResQ - Availability:Limited Stock (Score:3, Funny)

    by SmegTheLight ( 521218 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:04PM (#4926070)
    This topic should be called:

    "How you COULD have built your own Mac, before the info got Slashdotted"

  • CAT Mac (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:04PM (#4926071)
    In the old days these were called CAT Macs. or catalog Macs.(circa 1987-1994) There wer a few companies that specalized in building custom enclosures for Mac IIs and such. ATS or Atlanta Technical Specalists built a great product. John Yaeger came up with the design and production of cutting up PC AT cases and mounting custom power supplies, logic board plates and port covers to give enough room to make some killer Macs of the day.
    Those were the days when Larry Pina was king.

    • Re:CAT Mac (Score:2, Informative)

      by shivianzealot ( 621339 )

      Applefritter has a pretty good section on these. Here's the direct link: http://www.applefritter.com/macclones/index.html

      Note to moderators: I feel +5, Informative is only fair :)

  • gah! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by BigBir3d ( 454486 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:04PM (#4926072) Journal
    For the price of the processor [sonnettech.com] you can have a reasonable PC.

    This is not a troll, just a note of what happens when hardware is made in small quantities, and is not actively updated as fast as the competition.

    In the land of PC's, people that want the absolute best, or the absolute cheapest build their own.

    In the land of Apple, if you want the best, buy it directly from Apple. Cheapest? Probably eBay.

    • processor prices Re:gah! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by johnpaul191 ( 240105 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:20PM (#4926223) Homepage
      there is a weird thing with PPC processors these days. it has something to do with the IMB/Moto design and manufacturing thing. also the "processor" is not just a bare chip like a PC user may think. it's a whole processor card, including the backside cache bla bla bla. not that it really narrows the gap, but there is a lot more than a bare chip.

      Moto makes the chips that Apple currently uses in machines, IBM makes a lot of the ones that are used for upgrades. there is some agreement over pricing and speed. the rumors have long said IBM can outclock Moto's chips, but are not allowed to sell them because they are held back because of contractual agreements. rumors, but interesting because it seems IBM will be making the new Apple super-chip in mid/late 2003 when the 970s roll out.

      also of note, a $399 PC is a piece of junk compared to any Mac. i am talking about the physical components. everything from power supply to ram, it will not have gigabit ethernet, it will not have firewire with individual busses for each port. things like that where the prices of Macs add up.

      • Re:processor prices Re:gah! (Score:4, Informative)

        by ivan256 ( 17499 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:33PM (#4926312)
        the rumors have long said IBM can outclock Moto's chips, but are not allowed to sell them because they are held back because of contractual agreements.

        It really is just a rumor. Not only can IBM make chips that clock faster than motorola's chips, they do make them and they do sell them, so whatever contract you may have heard of wasn't or is no longer true.

        Also, I believe that the current iBooks use IBM G3s. The 750CXe I think.

      • Re:processor prices Re:gah! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by BigBir3d ( 454486 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:43PM (#4926378) Journal
        also of note, a $399 PC is a piece of junk compared to any Mac

        Your price reference is for the processor alone (my original intention). For that money one can purchase a high quality AMD processor and motherboard of your choice. When looking at total cost of the PC vs homemade Mac, you can get far nicer, all brand new, components for the PC. And it will be the latest generation.

        Note that the motherboard referred to in the article was $199 and it was a refurbished unit. High quality or not, for that much scratch, I want new stuff.

        Gigabit ethernet is useless for 99% of Mac users, other than for bragging rights. A Gigabit solution is just now getting to the point of being affordable. It is still useless if you are mainly concerned with internet usage.

        The 970's, if they do come down the pipeline, sound really cool.

        In reality, the Macintosh market is not one of customization, it is one of reliability and ease of use. Something the PC still can't do.
        • Actually, I'd have to say that Gigabit ethernet is useless for 99% of users, other than for bragging rights. Mac or no Mac has nothing to do with it. Sure, it sounds cool to have, but unless you also want to invest in a gig switch for your Mac LAN, you are paying for something of relatively little value (like Firewire a year or so ago).

          Apple could really carve themselves a bigger market if they'd carve more off prices. The UNIXy goodness in Mac OS X actually makes me wish that I had a new Mac to play with, and that is saying something. I was an Apple user back before the Mac launched, but deviated slightly before and saw no compelling reason to take the platform seriously until Mac OS X.

          It will take lower costs of pre-built systems, or greater availability of DIY hardware to get me to re-expand my horizons beyond Intel/AMD based workstations and Intel/AMD/Sparc based servers. Otherwise, Apple simply offers no wins to lure my money or my recommendation for budget in the corporate world.

        • Gigabit ethernet is useless for 99% of Mac users

          Huh? Say that next time we use a $12 cable to copy gigs of stuff from my Power Mac to my friend's PowerBook G4 at over 30 MB/s.
          • Gigabit ethernet is useless for 99% of Mac users

            Huh? Say that next time we use a $12 cable to copy gigs of stuff from my Power Mac to my friend's PowerBook G4 at over 30 MB/s.

            A crossover cable works fine if you have only two machines. The second you add a third machine to the mix, Gigabit Ethernet gets much more expensive. (BTW, $12 for a crossover cable? You could've made one for much less.)

        • A Gigabit solution is just now getting to the point of being affordable.


          Well, it's not like you can't have that too. Over at newegg [newegg.com], you can pick up a ASUS A7V8X for $144.00. Gigabit networking onboard, USB 2.0, IEEE1394, supports up to DDR400.

          Then click back to the home page and note that you can pick up a boxed AMD 2000XP for $91. Just add need memory, video card, a case, and drives.
          Memory: $137.00 for Samsung 512MB CAS 2.5. You can certainly get faster, but that's about where the price break is, and it kicks the pc133's butt. Video card $219 for the same one as in the ad (I mean article). The case is around $50 for a good screwless model, CD-RW less than $50 (I just picked on up for $20 after rebates- you might notice they didn't include a CD-RW in the article), and for a hard drive, grab the same one in the article for $100. Maybe grab some extra case fans for $4-6 each?

          So that's a *good* machine, brand new, for about $795 +shipping (which isn't going to be much) with all the extras. Gigabit networking, USB 2.0, Firewire, pretty much everything.

          But you can build the used g4 for $1730 if you prefer.

          I'd love to get a mac, but whenever I compare where I can get the most flexibility and bang for the buck, I end up with another PC. My next laptop, however, will be a powerbook.
      • And I need gigabit ethernet and firewire with individual busses WHY? I thought Mac was all about the user, and I can't think of any user outside of really specialized industries that might possibly need those features.
      • Be honest here folks.

        We're talking about homebrew PC's. There are very few businesses that want homebrew x86 boxes, made with new parts. So if you try and sell them on homebrew mac's made with grey market second hand parts, etc, you can bet the CFO won't let that fly.

        So we're bsically talking about homebrew machines for the home.

        Who in gods name, needs gigabit at home? You can basically take it to the bank, that the bottleneck any home user will have, will be their pipe to the net. Arcnet will be faster than 99% of the home net connections out there. And if you do have the $$ to get a T3+ at home, you probably won't bother building a Mac from scratch.

        Gigabit's only really a selling point, if you've got something to connect to it, that will actually USE the bandwidth. Otherwise it's just a spoiler or a Civic.

  • Can I have a.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rolfwind ( 528248 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:05PM (#4926079)
    dual 1GHz, internal dvd, internal zip, heavy on the ram, some Mac OsX, printer and scanner on the side. Oh, and a large tower to go with that! Thank you! Seriously, is this going to save anybody money? No. If it's for internal component, I like external ones better. Why not just buy the external components, they're SCSI right. Portable computer to computer. The only benefit I see is the possibility of making one computer out of two broken ones or something similiar. Can you even by PPC chips seperately?

    • Re:Can I have a.... (Score:3, Informative)

      by Chas ( 5144 )
      Why not just buy the external components

      Speaking from a PC-centric POV, and having attended lots of LAN parties. Because it's a pain in the nuts hooking up all the cable and lugging everything with you.

      Not to mention the fact that, for the most part, external components:

      1. Cost more
      2. Require additional power connectors
      3. Are a damned nuisance when space is limited.
  • So this is a link to a very limited 1 page summary, of an article that was covered on /. [slashdot.org] in September.

  • You could also look here [slashdot.org] at the last Slashdot story that told you how to build a Mac.

    I think somewhere along the line, Slashdot.org: The Techie Menace became Slashdot.org: Attack of the Dupes...

  • Hmmm.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Aggrazel ( 13616 ) <aggrazel@gmail.com> on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:07PM (#4926108) Journal
    Build my own mac?

    I used to do that all the time, was easy...

    2 all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese ...

  • Just an FYI....NO FLAME (Score:5, Informative)

    by greymond ( 539980 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:09PM (#4926123) Homepage Journal
    I know a lot of MAC enthusiasts here will start commenting that "See you can build a mac just like you can a pc!" and I myself don't wish to start a flame war here but Building a MAC is no where near the ease of building a PC.

    For a PC you need 2 main things the parts and 1 Screwdriver.

    Building a MAC on the otherhand requires the parts, a Screwdriver, a Wire cutter, Dremel and cutting discs, 4" nylon wire ties, Electrical tape, Die, tap, and drill - (see the macoptz [macopz.com] link on the article if you don't believe me)

    The reason for this is because Apple - although they sell parts separately DOES NOT SELL THE MAC CASES BY THEMSELVES - so in order to make your powersuply and mac board work with a pc case requires all the time and effort of making a custom mod of your pc box. IMHO a very time consuming process unless you do that sort of thing on a regular basis and have all your stuff readily at hand.

    I'm totally in favor of people trying this - just be forwarned that this is not a simple buy the parts slap the pieces together turn it on project - it's time consuming and requires a lot more tools and skill than needed for pc building.

    • Re:Just an FYI....NO FLAME (Score:4, Funny)

      by Mononoke ( 88668 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:24PM (#4926250) Homepage Journal
      I'm totally in favor of people trying this - just be forwarned that this is not a simple buy the parts slap the pieces together turn it on project - it's time consuming and requires a lot more tools and skill than needed for pc building.
      That's what gets me every time I hear someone crowing about how they "Built their PC from scratch." No they didn't. They bought about 10 items and put them together like some snap-together kit (Place Tab A in Slot B). Certainly something some people could be proud of, but not really that impressive in the long run.

      Whenever someone comes to me claiming to have built their PC, I ask them to describe their technique for etching multi-layer circuit boards.

      Then they stomp on my foot. I don't know why.

      • Re:Just an FYI....NO FLAME (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Could it be they think you are being obtuse? While you're at it, when anyone in the world, says they've "made" something, do you jump on them since matter can't be created or destroyed? I bet you don't

      • Re:Just an FYI....NO FLAME (Score:5, Insightful)

        by CoughDropAddict ( 40792 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @06:18PM (#4926635) Homepage
        Oh please. You know perfectly well what people mean when they say they built their PC "from scratch," they mean they didn't buy a pre-assembled package from a retailer. They mean they chose each part and then assembled it.

        Whenever someone comes to me claiming to have built their PC, I ask them to describe their technique for etching multi-layer circuit boards.

        How enlightened you are. You must also ask your mother her technique for grinding flour and raising chickens when she bakes your birthday cake "from scratch."
          • You must also ask your mother her technique for grinding flour and
          • raising chickens when she bakes your birthday cake "from scratch."

          What parts of the chicken are used in the birthday cake???????

      • Re:Just an FYI....NO FLAME (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Bios_Hakr ( 68586 ) <xptical@@@gmail...com> on Thursday December 19, 2002 @06:18PM (#4926637)
        Just like car enthusiasts:

        Some people buy from a dealer. Some buy parts from JC Whittney. Some hand polish the cylinder walls themselves.

        If I buy a video card and then rip off the heatsink to replace it with another, then I have done more work than most. If I spend days looking at charts and graphs to decide which MoBo is the best, I have done more work than most. If I take the time to tiewrap power cables and ensure good airflow, then I have done more work than most.

        Like sex, there is a lot more to "building a PC" than "insert tab A into slot B". Or at least there can be if you do it right.
      • >Whenever someone comes to me claiming to have built their PC, I ask them to describe their technique for etching multi-layer circuit boards.

        Well, since you asked...

        Personally I prefer positive photoetch and 3M 77 myself (if I were to do anything past 2 layer, that is), but this guy [thinktink.com] has better plans.

        (You came to the wrong place to ask that question. ;-) And I hate Ferric Chloride. Yech. Stains worse than anything. And the smell...)
      • Whenever someone comes to me claiming to have built their PC, I ask them to describe their technique for etching multi-layer circuit boards....Then they stomp on my foot. I don't know why.

        Real men need two layers or less. The techinques are simple and need no further explaination than double sided pc board. Now you know.

      • Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @07:59PM (#4927125)
        Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Where does apple sell the parts?
    • Buy a case on eBay. I did a search for "g4 tower case" and there was one selling w/ power supply right now.

    • ...is develop a standard set of boards and enclosures that are interchangeable. Take the IBM PS2 case design concept to it's natural conclusion: a motherboard swap should be a 10-minute job requiring the release of 7 plastic snap connectors.

      Apple should then sell these individual parts together with complete systems. The products should be of utmost quality. The parts should be simple enough that anybody could modify and maintain them (I don't think that current SIMM designs, for example, are simple and fool-proof enough).

      When Apple has done this, and converted entirely to a component model, the introduction of x86 Macs with native OSX will not be so profound (actually, I would like to see a Transmeta Mac without all that code-morphing - the performance of a "native" Crusoe would be interesting).

      In short, Apple needs to become the Ikea of computers. There are lots of places that sell furniture that is cheaper than Ikea, but Ikea remains a very big player in its market. Apple's market share is restrained for a simple reason: at Ikea, there is something for everybody. Apple should adopt this as a corporate mantra.

    • For God's sake, it's

      "Mac"

      Which is short for Macintosh. Not "MAC." It's not an acronym. It doesn't stand for something; "PC is an acronym for "Personal Computer." You don't write "WINDOWS" or "LINUX" or "GATEWAY" so why "MAC"? Becausee it is so short? Jeez.

      An incredibly trivial point... but I had to make it!

    • What is a MAC? (Score:3, Informative)

      by BurntHombre ( 68174 )
      MAC? How would you create your own Media Access Control? Oh, wait -- you mean Mac, as in Macintosh. Got it!
      [/smartass]

      Sorry, referring to a Macintosh as a 'MAC' is one of my pet peeves.

  • I RTFA, but you basically buy *the* proc, *the* mobo and put it together yourself.

    You still don't have all that much variety in your new 'mac'.. No more than if you bought a prebuilt and changed the videocard.

    When I have time I'll crunch the numbers, but I doubt that all-told its any cheaper. I was under the impression that aftermarket Mac mobo's were quite pricy.

    It's nice for that 'look what I did' feeling, but it'd be much nicer to see cheaper commodity hardware.

    Then I might be interested in putting one together to see what OSX is all about, as I'd never pay so much for any pre-built desktop. Unless it had a creamy nougat center. Mmmmm.. Nougat.

  • If I build it, does that make it an iMac?

  • That's all well and good... (Score:4, Informative)

    by daeley ( 126313 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:10PM (#4926138) Homepage
    ...just don't try to install GNU-Darwin on it. ;D

    BTW, Mac OS X 10.2.3 was just released via Software Update. Check my journal for more info.

  • Refurbished mobo? (Score:4, Informative)

    by benzapp ( 464105 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:11PM (#4926143)
    The link for the motherboard in the story points to a refurbished motherboard [macresq.com] which also costs $200!

    I have built systems for the last ten years not because of the geek factor, but because most premanufactured systems are crap, and the ones that aren't cost way too much money.

    given that I think most are looking for quality, who would put a refurbished motherboard in their system, let a lone a $200 one.

  • pointless (Score:3, Redundant)

    by asv108 ( 141455 ) <asv AT ivoss DOT com> on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:12PM (#4926164) Homepage Journal
    When building a mac you loose a lot of the benefits of constructing your own PC: Vast array of components to choose from, low cost, and configurations you can't get from standard pc makers. You also loose one of the main benefits of choosing an Apple system, excellent support and replacement policies.

    The processor costs $700 [sonnettech.com]! For the price of the processor alone, anyone can build a complete Athlon XP2400+ nforce2 system.

    • That's not just a chip, it's more like a processor card. Chip, external cache, system interface, etc. Not only that, it's a processor card that not many mac owners buy. That's why it's so pricey.

      The real cost of a g3/4 chip is around the cost of a p3/4.

      • Re:pointless (Score:2, Insightful)

        by mehip2001 ( 600856 )
        So, is it not possible to just go out a purchase a chip and drop it in? Or is this the only way to do it yourself?

      • Re:pointless (Score:2, Informative)

        by leviramsey ( 248057 )
        That's not just a chip, it's more like a processor card. Chip, external cache, system interface, etc. Not only that, it's a processor card that not many mac owners buy. That's why it's so pricey.

        So what? That doesn't change the fact that a part (ie not a standalone system) of a Mac is at least as expensive as a pretty damn fast PC.

  • Create Your Own (Big) Mac (Score:5, Funny)

    by webword ( 82711 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:13PM (#4926167) Homepage
    TOP SECRET RECIPE

    INGREDIENTS

    1 sesame-seed hamburger bun
    Half of an additional hamburger bun
    1/4 pound ground beef
    Dash salt
    1 tablespoon Kraft Thousand Island dressing
    1 teaspoon finely diced onion
    1/2 cup chopped lettuce
    1 slice American cheese
    2 to 3 dill pickle slices

    INSTRUCTIONS

    1. With a serrated knife, cut the top off the extra bun half, leaving about a 3/4-inch-thick slice. This will be the middle bun in your sandwich.

    2. Place the three bun halves on a hot pan or griddle, face down, and toast them to a light brown. Set aside, but keep the pan hot.

    3. Divide the ground beef in half and press into two thin patties slightly larger than the bun.

    4. Cook the patties in the hot pan over medium heat for 2 to 3 minutes on each side. Salt lightly.

    5. Build the burger in the following stacking order from the bottom up:

    bottom bun
    half of dressing
    half of onion
    half of lettuce
    American cheese
    beef patty
    middle bun
    remainder of dressing
    remainder of onion
    remainder of lettuce
    pickle slices
    beef patty
    top bun

  • Architecture Issues (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Massacrifice ( 249974 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:16PM (#4926181)
    As both a Mac and PC owner :

    One of the main points (beside price) of building your own computer is to be able to choose your components, which you dont really have when it comes down to building a Mac since the supported hardware list is so small. _Drivers_ are the biggest hurdle to putting your own Mac together. Unless you want to run Yellow Dog Linux on it, but then it's not a Mac anymore, is it?

    You cannot even use standard PC video cards on a Mac, since the Mac architecture expects extension cards to have OpenFirmware compliant firmware. Hence, nice Mac-specific NVidia AGP cards that wont fit anywhere else. Again, there are ways around that, but reliabiality suffers.

  • Wow. Cutting Edge... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by trcooper ( 18794 ) <(gro.tuoder) (ta) (pooc)> on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:27PM (#4926278) Homepage
    Is anyone surprised you can pick up a refurbished mainboard, and a processor upgrade on the internet? Whoopee.

    Sure, you CAN build a Mac. But why? By the time you get done paying shipping from 10 different online merchants, you may as well have bought the real thing.

    I understand building PC's, but I do that because the hardware is plentiful, I can get everything at one place usually, and end up saving quite a bit of money in the long run.

    If you want to build a Mac, order yourself a Dual 866 G4, have someone tear it apart and put it in boxes, and put it back together...
  • Where do I get the mac cases? Bondi blue or titanium, I don't care, but I Want one of the neat new mac cases with the handles on the corners, and I want it to not be all scratched up. I'd pay a hundred bucks or so for one of those (reasonable for a used case I'd think), without a power supply.

    I want to make one into an ATX case (I know that some of the important parts are on the wrong side, I'll get it worked out, don't worry) and slap my athlon into it. I don't even mind the big apple on the side. It's really a shame that no one makes a copy of it that is anywhere near the same quality.

  • Hmmmm, nobody seems to have noticed that this is a repost. The posted link simply links to the previosly posted link. Oh well.

    Anyway, when the computer you're building requires a 'refurbished' motherboard made by Apple, it's not quite the same thing, is it? It's interesting, but wake me up when someone gets Auqa running on a generic G4 reference board.

  • I tried doing just this a while back. A wonky PS from some overly-religious seller managed to fry every component I had bought for the project--and I was out $400.

    Word to the wise (from the foolish): don't build your own Mac. Just don't. If you're going to build a computer, build a PC or some other machine you can build out of parts that are all under warranty.

  • I looked into doing this, and frankly, it's still not a very good deal - because the best logicboard that's readily available is the Gigabit Ethernet board. That's about two years old compared to the latest power mac systems. And one of the main logic board and grey market parts suppliers just went out of business (Shreve systems - but Mac ResQ is still around).

    If I could get a more up to date logic board, or even a cube motherboard, I'd feel more compelled to pursue this. Until then, I'm still squeezing every last cycle I can out of my trusty old upgraded Beige G3. . .

  • Mine May Not Be Cutting-Edge, But Its Cool (Score:4, Interesting)

    by thedbp ( 443047 ) on Friday December 20, 2002 @06:48PM (#4933316)
    here's the lowdown (as if anyone cares) of the Mac I've been piecing together for a few months now:

    Its a 7600 case painted gloss black w/ silver highlights on the power button, the cd eject button, and, of course, the apple logo.

    inside you'll find a beige g3 rev 3 mobo. a 350 MHz G3 clocked up to 433 w/ 1MB cache, 6MB internal Rage Pro graphics. Beefed up to 768 MB RAM. Added the A/V card that was optional on these models. Added a USB/FW combo card, a fast ethernet card, a Radeon 7000 PCI graphics card, 2 HDs(12 and 20, soon to be 12 and 80), a and a DVD-ROM for movies. This baby kills. Check out the list of ports:

    1/8" stereo audio in
    1/8" stereo audio out
    RCA stereo audio in
    RCA stereo audio out
    RCA video in
    RCA video out
    S-video in
    2x S-video out (one onboard, one on Radeon card)
    Original Apple Monitor Connector
    VGA
    DVI
    2 USB
    2 FW
    10/100 Enet
    10 Enet
    SCSI
    2x serial
    ADB
    3x Monitor support (2 off the Radeon, one off internal video - the internal video can be a monitor or television, Radeon can be any 2 of either DVI, VGA, or S-video or composite video.).

    Its not a gaming station as I'm stuck w/ PCI graphics and a 66MHz bus on this (Tomb Raider runs great but forget about Jedi Knight II), but I'm not done w/ it yet. Next up are the final 2 additions:
    -SuperDrive (found a vendor that sells a black model CHEAP, so it'll match - just bought one for my B&W G3 and it rules.)
    - Single or Dual G4. XLR8 made a dual g4 upgrade, but they're out of business. So I'm trying to find a dual 450 or 500 upgrade for this baby, and if I can't find one I'll swap in a 450 from a B&W I'm upgrading, clock it up a tad, and be done with it.

    OK, so there's the setup, now here's the use:
    computer sits by the couch/loveseat/lazyboy w/ a flat panel monitor, wireless mouse and keyboard. the computer's display is mirrored on the tv set via the Radeon. Cable TV runs directly into the TV. Cable TV also runs into a VCR, which is plugged into the Computer via S or Composite Video. Audio out from Computer (which also serves as a CD player, DVD player, networked MP3 player, CD burner, DVD burner, and PVR) goes into a reciever to speakers. Everything else is also hooked into the reciever. Reciever audio out is looped back into the Computer through 1/8" input on Computer while the VCR uses RCA audio in.
    The Computer's video is hooked into the Receiver as well, with the output going into the TV, and an auxilliary video and audio output going back into the VCR.

    This way, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING can be recorded both digitally and analog with live monitoring and multiple recording points. Please keep in mind that a CD-changer, record player, and tape deck are all plugged into the receiver as well. Because of the way its set up, the TV can be just a TV or have the full computer interface and due to the VCR hooked into the computer, can retain TV functionality in addition to all the other uses that a Mac has.

    The computer is running on Mac OS X Jaguar, so its a cinch to set up an audio/video file server and a limited-use user account specifically for the functions of using it as a media center. Not to mention the use of a Wacom tablet for interaction, plus all the user apps that mac Mac OS X so great - iMovie, iPhoto, etc., all integrated into a total entertainment environment. Plus, using bluetooth, if I'm watching TV and my cell rings, I'll get a nice pop-up message on my TV of who's calling with their picture. I drool when I think about it. Much cooler and more expandable/useful than MS's media center, and the components were dirt cheap. most were scavenged off eBay or are hand-me-downs from a B&W G4 that I've been upgrading as well. Fun stuff!

    Beyond that, add into the mix the Computer's ability to run things like Pro Tools or Deck. And iTunes will soon have Rendevous support, so as soon as my friends come over with their iBooks or PowerBooks, their music is available on my entertaiment system automatically. Or use a USB or FireWire TV tuner and run cable directly into the Computer as well. The sheer geekiness of it is astounding.

    The possibilities are endless, and I'm like 85% there. I really should have been chronicling all this (especially all the clocking experiments) or something, but I usually only get to work on it in the wee hours when I'm all cracked out (not literally mind you).

    Oh well, that's it. I think its cool, its been fun to build, and I hope nobody is mad cuz they read the whole damn post and feel ripped off.

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