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Portables (Apple) Businesses Apple Hardware

Multiple Monitors for iBooks 86

Posted by pudge from the i-wonder-if-the-warranty-covers-open-firmware-hacks-gone-bad dept.
nevershower writes "I found this while reading MacOSXHints. It's a firmware script for Radeon iBooks that allows them to use monitor spanning! DO NOT run this script if you have a Rage iBook. It might permanently bork your laptop." Borking is bad, especially if it is permanent.
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Multiple Monitors for iBooks More

Multiple Monitors for iBooks

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  • Swedish Chef (Score:4, Funny)

    by Strog ( 129969 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @11:14AM (#4522826) Homepage Journal
    Mmm Bork Bork Bork.

    Funny for Muppets but not funny for your laptop

  • The meaning of bork (Score:5, Funny)

    by floydigus ( 415917 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @11:24AM (#4522916)
    A quick search on Google returned this [google.com] site.

    • Yeah Bork Bork Bork is a language setting in the Google Preferences.

      Along with Elmer Fudd, Hacker and others.
    • It might be coincidence, but borking is also a term the Republicans made up, much like clymer.

      Judge Robert Bork was a candidate for (I believe) the US Supreme Court, and was generally believed to be quite accomplished. The ABA rated him as unqualified in what the GOP claimed was a politically motivated character assassination.

      So when someone is screwed over for political purposes, it's called being "borked."

      (Adam (?) Clymer, incidentally, is a reporter for the NY Times. George W accidentally left his mike on while remarking "there's that Adam Clymer guy, he's a real asshole," to which Dick Cheney replied "major league.")
      • Actually, while the term "Borking" is frequently used by Republicans to refer to character assasination, it was actually a left-wing lobbyist who first verbed the name "Bork".

        When Bush The Elder appointed Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court, Florence Kennedy, then president of the National Organization of Women told the press, "we're going to Bork him. We're going to kill him politically." Shortly afterwards, Anita Hill came forward to accuse him of sexual harrassing her several years earlier.

  • Hmmm (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I have a 14" 700Mhz iBook. Unfortunately it reports "ATY,RageM6" on the Apple System Profiler. Should I risk running the script?

    • you're good. (Score:5, Informative)

      by Bizzarobot ( 442358 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @11:55AM (#4523203) Homepage
      This post [macosxhints.com] says "RageM6" looks like what you're supposed to have to enable spanning.
      This one [macosxhints.com] tells you how to revert. Good luck!

    • Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Informative)

      by fader ( 107759 ) <fader@hotpop . c om> on Friday October 25, 2002 @04:56PM (#4533618) Homepage
      I have a 14" 700Mhz iBook. Unfortunately it reports "ATY,RageM6" on the Apple System Profiler. Should I risk running the script?

      Well, I wouldn't want to be responsible for telling you to try something risky with your laptop... but having said that, I saw this on MacOSXHints.com last night. I have a 12" 700Mhz iBook, which reported the same video card. But I tried the hack anyway, and it works perfectly. I can't believe Apple didn't enable this on the iBooks that support it.

      The funniest thing is, the video card supports waaay higher resolutions than the laptop display will do, so you can slam on an external monitor and have a decent desktop size when you're at your desk.
      • I can't believe Apple didn't enable this on the iBooks that support it.

        It's not that they didn't enable it, its that they went out of their way to disable it. ATI's chipset is perfectly capable, but this is one of those premium features your not supposed to get without a ti-book. The forbidden fruit, so to speak.
  • Does anyone have a mirror of macparts.de/ibook or post the firmware script? ye ol' German site is ka-poot.
    • ok... the http://www.rutemoeller.com/mp/ibook/ibook_e.html link is "kaputt". I keep getting "www.rutemoller.com could not be found" Can someone PLEASE post the firmware hack or a mirror of the rutemoller ibook page? Obviously a number of people have gotten through and grabbed it... share? :)

  • Whoa, Pete! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by thinmac ( 98095 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @12:10PM (#4523343) Homepage
    I have a 700Mhz radion iBook, so as soon as I saw this story I rebooted and made the change (it's not so much a script as a list of firmware commands, you have to copy it out or look at them on another machine and enter them by hand). I'm now typing this in on my 21 inch Sony trinitron running at 1600x1200. Works great!
    Gotta wonder, though. Apple really has limited the use of this radion chip. They disable this, and it only came with 16 megs of vram. Chip supports up to 64! If it only came with 16 more, it would be a pretty able 3d card (not that it's terrible now, just somewhat underpowered). How much would an extra 16 megs cost?

    • Re:Whoa, Pete! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by scotto ( 38747 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @12:13PM (#4523371)
      Apple can't make the iBook too good relative to the PowerBook G4, or it's low price would cannibalize sales from their premium laptop. That's why monitor spanning is disabled and they only put 16MB of RAM in it.
      • Sigh. Perfect example of corporate ass-kissing.

        Far more honest to say: Apple says crap video subsystems in its iBooks with utter disdain for buyers wishing better than crippled low-range outdated cards.

        • Re:Whoa, Pete! (Score:2, Insightful)

          by dalamcd ( 573483 )
          You're pretty dumb. ^____^

          Apple is a good (as in 'able', not as in 'holy' or something) company. They have a line of products, from low-end to high-end. If you want better than a 'cippled low-range outdated' card, you go for a higher-end product.

          All (good) businesses do this.

          By your reasoning, McDonalds should only sell the Big Mac, Microsoft should only sell WindowsXP Professional, car companies should never make a car under $50,000, and Apple should only sell PowerMacs.

          I'm 90% sure this is a troll, but whatever.

          dalamcd

          • insightful?
            More expensive cars cost more because they were more expensive to build!
            A "good" business puts out the best products for the lowest prices possible. If it would only cost a few buckazoids to add another 16MB of memory to the iBook, and it would make it a far better product, then to be considered a "good" company they are *obligated* to do that. Otherwise, they are LIMITING THE PERFORMANCE FOR MARKETING PURPOSES, IGNORING A WAY TO MAKE A BETTER PRODUCT FOR LITTLE EXTRA $ IN ORDER TO INCREASE SALES OF THEIR HIGH END PRODUCT.
            That, my friend, is "Shady"
            Pick prices ranges. Make the best products you can, under those price ranges. do not ignore ways to improve one product in order to increase sales of another. That is the only way you can call a company "good"
    • Since you tried this out, are there any side effects of the change. I read about this earlier today and before the site got /.ed, and followed a link to the previous hack. In it, they said something about DVD Player freaking out, but I don't know if that is in reference to the known problem of the TV out issue or something else. I didn't have a chance to run the commands this morning before work, and wanted to wait to here from other reports before doing it.

      Anyway, if you have any anecdotal information regarding side effects, it'd help those of us who haven't done anything yet.

      Thanks!
      • DVD player seems to be working fine for me... it does freak out if you try to change display depth/resolution/arrangement while DVD player is running, but just quitting and restarting it seems to fix it.

        Aside from that minor (but understandable) issue, I haven't noticed any problems at all.
    • well if they let you do this originally, i would have bought a 12" ibook instead of my powerbook G4..... and i might just trade it in after this.... the ibooks have essentially every advantage over the tibooks now... including price.

      • Re:Whoa, Pete! (Score:3, Insightful)

        by frankie ( 91710 )
        if they let you do this originally, i would have bought a 12" ibook instead of my powerbook G4

        Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner! This is the exact reason why Apple disabled dual monitors on the iBook (and iMac).

        I am so very glad this hack was created. When it's time to replace my Pismo, I'll get an iBook.

      • Err... You're kidding right? I've used both, but own neither :-( but given the choice I'd have a PowerBook G4, why?

        It's a G4 (obvious I know) but that's quicker (if you do video on it then it's LOTS quicker.

        It's got a bigger screen (and it's a laptop - you won't be next to a display all the time will you? {if the answers yes - get a PowerMac!})

        It's thinner.

        It can take more RAM.

        It looks nicer. (ok maybe that's subjective)

        The G4 PowerBook will last you longer (unless you drop it) as it is a better machine to start with. (So you'll feel the "upgrade itch" later)

        Dude, the G4 PowerBook is one, nice Mac, sure the iBook is nice too, but the PowerBook usually has the edge. (Ok, when doesn't it have the edge? When money's short {duh} or when you want a REALLY small machine to stuff in a small bag)

        Yeah, this is nice for anyone who has an iBook (assuming this actually works properly long term) but it hardly devalues the PowerBook. (Anyway the PowerBook has a certain prestige)

        • Err... You're kidding right? I've used both, but own neither :-( but given the choice I'd have a PowerBook G4, why?

          I had the choice, and I opted to get the iBook. My primary reason is that the iBook runs a lot cooler. I also have found that the iBook (14.1-inch model) has slightly better battery life than the TiBook.

          Both the G4 and G3 processors are excellent for a laptop system, but I'm a big fan of G3 laptops.

        • actually, no, i'm not kidding. i've used both, and for the most part i use my powerbook for aim, the 'net, and email, ect. the most cpu intensive application i've probably used in the last week was itunes (which runs continiously). i like the durability of the ibook more, as i'm a college student, and actually, the laptop sits next to a 17" NEC multisync @ 1600x1200 99% of the time, except when i go home about every other weekend. oh yeah, and the ibook's fan wouldn't come on nearly as often when playing music. i only have half a gig of ram in my PBG4.

          besides, if i got a new ibook, it'd have more vram than my tibook (16 vs i think 32), so i'd be able to run the external display w/quartz extreme.

          you looking at buying a powerbook g4 (used) by any chance?
        • cost. $1k vs. $4k. I love my iBook.
        • (iBook vs Powerbook)

          >It's got a bigger screen (and it's a laptop - you
          >won't be next to a display all the time will you?

          The majority of the time I'm using my iBook, I have an external screen available. When I'm out and about, the ability to fit easily into my pack is more important than the size of the screen (the reduced width of the iBook is more significant than the reduced depth of the Powerbook).

          >It can take more RAM.

          I don't have my iBook maxed out anyway, so this isn't an issue for me.

          >It looks nicer. (ok maybe that's subjective)

          It is. I prefer the iBook look, as does my friend with a Powerbook.

          >The G4 PowerBook will last you longer

          Maybe. But with a laptop half the price, I can afford to replace it a lot sooner.

  • Is it possible to do the "reverse" on an iMac (Score:4, Interesting)

    by automandc ( 196618 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @12:17PM (#4523408)
    In the same vein, does anyone know if it's possible to use the built in LCD panel on an iMac as a monitor for a different computer (i.e. a "video-in" for the iMac monitor)?

    I realize that it is probably a hardware hack, but if anyone has ever done this I'd be interested to hear. One of my major reasons for not getting a Mac is that I can't justify (afford) a G4 standalone, but I don't want two monitors on my desk unless I can use both of them simultaneously.
    • In the same vein, does anyone know if it's possible to use the built in LCD panel on an iMac as a monitor for a different computer (i.e. a "video-in" for the iMac monitor)?

      I'm not sure I completely understand your needs, but would VNC [att.com] be an incomplete but cheap solution?

      • For some people, that would probably work fine, but not in my case. Essentially, what you are talking about is using the iMac as a terminal to connect to whatever other machine.

        At that level, I might as well just run VirtualPC (OK, well, it might not be that bad). Essentially there are two reasons a VNC wouldn't solve my problem: (1) I already have hardware I don't wish to get rid of (i.e. 19" CRT), and (2) I wouldn't want my use of the PC to be limited by problems/bottlenecks over the LAN and software issues on the Mac. In essence, I want to do what Gamgee5273 suggests, i.e. plug the Mac into a KVM and use it as an external monitor.

        Thanks for the creative suggestion though...
    • The CRT iMacs (or, at least, the early ones) had a standard VGA connection inside the case. That led to some folks snaking the connector out and setting up a KVM.

      If the new ones have some sort of standard connector, then it could be done (disconnect the monitor from the board, run it to a KVM, run the KVM to the board...). I would dig around and see if you can find some screenshots of new iMac dissections...

    • In the same vein, does anyone know if it's possible to use the built in LCD panel on an iMac as a monitor for a different computer (i.e. a "video-in" for the iMac monitor)?

      Know what I'd like to be able to do (when I get sick of my new iMac?) take off the screen and articulated arm, and connect a cinema display (or whatever I can afford) The dome would look soooo cool as a separate computer (Like a cube, but round. Wow. That's deep. and I'm exhausted)

      Mmmmm. Pipe dreams. :)

      Triv

  • eMacs? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mkelley ( 411060 ) <slashdot@mkelley.DALInet minus painter> on Thursday October 24, 2002 @01:26PM (#4523958) Homepage
    I saw that this might work on the 17" iMacs, and wondered if they can get the GeForce2 in the eMac to do the same thing with it's external mirror port.

  • Get your terminology right (Score:4, Informative)

    by azav ( 469988 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @02:50PM (#4524581) Homepage Journal
    The term "Monitor spanning" does not apply to macintoshes since you are NOT spanning one screen to multiple monitors.

    The correct term is "multiple monitor support" because the macintosh has been built with support for multiple monitors from day two.

    Please use the correct terminology.

    • Re:Get your terminology right (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Steve Cowan ( 525271 ) on Thursday October 24, 2002 @04:22PM (#4525217) Journal
      The problem is that "multiple monitor support" is an ambiguous term. The iBook has multiple monitor support - you can plug in a VGA monitor and have it display the same thing that's on your built-in display. In Apple parlance it's mirroring, but technically it is still multiple monitor support.

      On their web site, Apple has referred to monitor spanning as both "extended desktop" and "dual display".

      Now I just wish somebody could come up with a hack for my RAGE iBook 500.

  • Works a treat... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Colitis ( 8283 ) <jj DOT walker AT outlook DOT co DOT nz> on Thursday October 24, 2002 @05:28PM (#4525600)
    Was easily done, and now I have monitor spanning enabled and working fine. No obvious problems with apps yet.

    I only have a 15" LCD so I can't try what happens when the external screen has higher res than the built-in one, but with both displays in the same res I'm quite happy.

    (this is on my 700MHz iBook with Radeon chipset).
  • I would like to know what success ANYONE has had with this. I would usually dive right into this, but as I hold my iBook dear to my heart (also, when I heard reports of a 500 MHz version dying, the one that I have), I would like to know how well this "patch" works. If it doesn't, no biggie. I'll just keep on saving for my TiBook.

  • Closed-lid? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by cpw ( 613005 )
    Does this allow for closed-lid* functionality as well? (That's what I'd kill for in on my iBook)

    *Closed-lid mode is when a monitor is plugged into the 'Book, as well as a keyboard, the screen is closed, and machine uses them instead. PowerBooks do this, but iBooks do not.
    • that would rock, I am also wondering if I could have a 1024x768 res on the 12.1 ibook lcd screen then use this hack to have 1280x1024 on my 19" desktop. I want to do mirroring but I want to set the individual reselutions. Is this only for spanning?
      • Hence the term 'mirroring'. Separate resolutions are only available when mirroring is disabled.
        • I want a mirror image on the screen but I want to set different resolutions, get it?

          like for example.... I would want to take my ibook and hook it up to my 19" monitor when I am home. But I would want it so I could use the 19" monitor with a higher resolution.

          the Highest resolution that a ibook supports is 1024x768, but maybe with this hack I can allow the mirrored monitor to go up to 1280x1024. I currently do that with my current nvidia card. I have it set up in my XF86Config file for my monitor to be at 1024x768 and my tv to be set to 800x600. Can this be done?

    • Re:Closed-lid? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Erik K. Veland ( 574016 )
      Except PowerBook G4s don't.

      It's called ventilation, your mac needs it and it needs it bad through the keyboard. Always leave your laptop open when running. (Don't force it using stupid tricks like rebooting, then closing the lid). I borked my TiBook bad, and it's not covered by guarantee.
      • The manual for my TiBook explains how to do this. I doesn't say anything about this being a bad idea, or voiding your warranty, or...
        Mind you, I'm not disputing you, or whether this is a bad thing. I'm only pointing out that Apple put directions for this in the TiBook manual (mine is one generation back from the current model).
    • No, the computer still sleeps both displays when the lid is closed.

      Incidentally, my iBook's mechanical sleep "switch" is broken, and the computer continues to operate even with the lid completely shut. I was intially glad that I could now run iTunes with the iBook closed, but that didn't last too long. It's damn annoying now, and I'm on the verge of sending the unit back to Apple for the repair...
  • This works like a dream :) Now I have both my little iBook and 21 inch monitor working side-by-side. I wonder if Apple will disable this hack in future versions of the OS, or if they will actually 'turn on' this functionality in the newer iBooks? k-RAD!

  • Quartz Extreme probably won't work (Score:4, Interesting)

    by drsmithy ( 35869 ) <drsmithy.gmail@com> on Thursday October 24, 2002 @08:28PM (#4526646)
    Be aware that using spanning will disable QE. Assuming the iBook is like my (Rev A 667) TiBook, when display spanning is used the 16MB of VRAM on the chip is split into 8MB per display, which isn't enough for QE.

    • not exactly (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      QE will still be enabled on the ibook's LCD, just not on the external display. i have first hand knowledge of this.
  • anybody know a hack/workaround for this ? i thought my 2mX would be able to handle extended desktop as it has the two video ports AND nvidia's web site says that the pc version of the 2mx supports this. Apple's knowledge base is also pretty sketchy on the topic. One article seems to imply that it can be done, another seems to contradict it.. i can only get mirroring..what gives ?
    • Apple actually has (at least) two different cards for desktop G4s. There is the 32meg 2MX and the 64meg 2MX TwinView. These are for the normal tower G4's AGP-slot - I'm not talking about the iMac/eMac here.

      While the two 2MXs look quite the same, and both have analog (VGA or HD15) and digital (ADC) connectors, they are quite diffenrent from "inside". The 32meg version can only push identical video to both connectors. On the other hand the 64meg TwinView can support two simultanious monitors (screen spanning) - hence the name.

      What I don't know though could the 32meg be hacked to support screen spanning. This depends on the internenal structure of the board. Most PC's 2MX cards cannot be modified, as the hardware is built that way. (Of course they have DVI instead of ADC, but that changes nothing.)

  • My iBook actually did this once... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by thunderbird46 ( 315436 ) on Friday October 25, 2002 @01:45AM (#4527869) Homepage Journal
    I'm not sure how I got it to do it, but one time when I plugged my PC's 17" monitor into my 700 MHz iBook w/ the Radeon, I got dual-head mode instead of mirroring mode, without a hack. It was really strange. I'd move an app's window off to the side to test it and sure enough it'd appear on the CRT. Must have been some sort of bug.

  • If it can be done with an iBook... (Score:3)

    by Jezza ( 39441 ) on Friday October 25, 2002 @03:52AM (#4528178)
    If this works on an iBook, can a similar trick work on the eMac? That's cheap AND has a G4... It's just a thought. (Can't imagine I didn't think of that before)

    • Apple Portables have used ATI mobility chips for the last few years, which supports dual monitors (video mirroring and dual displays). The chip basically has 2 outputs, and the mirroring is software driven.

      The eMac uses a GeForce2 MX, which is designed for a desktop computer, and can only drive a single monitor. Apple is simply splitting the output of the chip to drive two monitors in hardware. I haven't used an eMac, but this is how it was done on the iMacs with video out.

  • Finally! (Score:2, Informative)

    by jerk ( 38494 )
    I know this has been discussed for quite a while, but now it's finally a reality. I'm typing this on my 21" Sun (trinitron) monitor at 1600x1200 and have my mail window open and maximized on my 12.1" iBook display (700mhz). Thanks a ton!

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