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Latest Toast Update Combats Fair Use 321

gsfprez writes "Apparently, demanding future DRM installations isn't just for Windows anymore. Roxio has added a very Microsoft-esque paragraph to the Toast 5.1.4 upgrade. In part, if you install it, you 'may affect your ability to copy, display and/or play Secure Content through the Software or other applications that utilize the Software.' I'm sorry, but this is a big reason why I'm sticking with Apple, but looking for new CD/DVD burning software..." Let me know when you find it.
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Latest Toast Update Combats Fair Use

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  • What about (Score:4, Informative)

    by Aknaton ( 528294 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @06:24AM (#3869809)
    CD-Record? It works on NetBSD and MacOS X is based on Unix.
    • Re:What about (Score:3, Informative)

      by Caligari ( 180276 )
      It also runs under win32 systems:

      ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix/cdrecord/alpha/w in 32/
    • Re:What about (Score:2, Interesting)

      by 13Echo ( 209846 )
      I have been using a great new KDE-based GUI for CDRecord and many other programs, called Arson. I have been toying around with it a bit and it is loaded with features. It kinda reminds me of Nero for Unix machines.

      http://arson.sourceforge.net/

      Perhaps it could be compiled and used in MacOS? The program isn't finished yet, but shows a lot of potential.
    • Re:What about (Score:4, Informative)

      by greed ( 112493 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @09:16AM (#3870593)
      I've been using cdrecord and mkisofs on Mac OS X for a while now. The latest alphas of cdrtools have full Mac OS X support--if Apple Disc Burning works, you can use it. So that gets you MMC SCSI, FireWire, IDE and USB recorders all in one. The device addresses are... different, but if you've only got one drive that's no problem either.

      With very little work, I was able to take Schily's newest libraries from cdrtools and drop it in to cdrdao to get that going too. All because my FireWire recorder rips better than my SCSI recorder, and I got tired of booting into Linux just to copy.

      The one oddity is the drive sharing stuff. Because you don't start these programs until AFTER you insert the disc, you get Finder's offer to prepare the disc. You have to tell Finder to ignore it, then hit continue in the really annoying "second bad disc dialog".

      I'm going to update the programs so they reserve the drive and wait for the recorder to do tray close, if I can figure out how. Maybe someone else already has; it works well enough that I haven't looked for updates recently.
    • I believe these nasty Roxio folks are the same people that made the cdrtoaster (Tk frontend to cdrecord) folks change their name based on trademark threats.

      I also remember Roxio's Toast costing some huge sum of money back when burners first came out -- hundreds and hundreds of dollars. Unbelivably exorbant.

      I really loathe Roxio.
  • Hmm (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ShooterNeo ( 555040 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @06:32AM (#3869832)
    Is there anything illegal about a content provider (someone who works his ass off to make content that others might enjoy) saying "ok, you have two choices". "I can leave my new movie in my underwear drawer where noone can see it, or I can sell it to you under the condition that you will only be able to view it with devices that cannot easily copy the movie". Is there anything ammoral with this? The BIG content providers who make this stuff want to protect their investment. Why shouldn't they try? Some of you have suggested that the whole process is futile ; people will always be able to hack it. The latter may be true, but if the recording companies can make it hard enough (with only allowing DRM devices to play their content, ect) they can make it so that the customer who is "on the fence" between warezing and buying it (i.e. someone who could do either) makes the right choice because warezing it is tedious. Thus, for the goals that the content providers want : to gain more sales from people who might otherwise pirate; DRM and other techniques may actually work! Now, for the people who cannot or will not buy the content : yeah, they'll warez it...but the anti-piracy measures can make it tougher. By breaking up the big P2P networks, it becomes slightly harder to pirate music. By copy protecting cds, it becomes less convenient for the average customer to burn his friend a copy. Macrovision has stopped many casual copiers. I'm saying that while us /. pros may be able to blow past just about any protection scheme the content providers devise, we might not buy the content anyway. But for the average joe who's been working all day and just wants to see a movie : he is probably going to get the legitimate copy to avoid all the technical headaches piracy can involve.
    • Re:Hmm (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 12, 2002 @07:43AM (#3870100)
      I think you are labouring under a small misconception, with your understanding of the music industry.

      Essentially, we are paying them for a service. If they choose to not sell something, then they lose money and ultimately, are not financially viable. We pay them, and a business should be grateful of the fact, and their customers.

      Your understanding inverts that, in that it expects customers to be a service to the company, waiting for the company to ply them with any works. We are not a cash machine for the pleasure of the recording/motion picture industry. Yet, through legislation and design, they continually seek to give us less to gain more money, which is exceptionally bad faith. Most especially when we simply wish to enjoy some music, which they seemingly monopolise and work in a cartel-like manner, when music is a fundamental expression of the human experience.

      People have been creating music for millions of years, and yet now we are supposed to place the sole care of that medium to a given set of companies and be charged for the privilage. In fact, we are supposed to equate music directly with money, as if it were something to be rigidly controlled. This is patently absurd and, I believe, it reduces our experience and abilities of expression as human beings.

      This is why tax on CDs is so abusive; it removes the freedom of musical expression from the population as a whole, and forces us to pay for what has been a God-given freedom for the aforementioned millions of years.

      The recording industry and the motion picture industry are forcing the development of DRM under the assumption that all video or audio implicitly belong to themselves, and that we all engage in piracy. I'm sorry, but many, many, many people create music and film for self-expression and higher meaning than the profit motive, and as such, these mediums belong to the world as a whole. Most people don't fear DRM controls, per se, but their poor implementation.

      And please, don't try and fool us by pretending that DRM controls aren't simply a part of the ongoing power-grab that these industries have been engaged in for the past decades, and the past several years in particular. Bad DRM implementation will happen, to the RIAA and MPAA's benefit. That is something we should all fight against.
    • Re:Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Twylite ( 234238 ) <(twylite) (at) (crypt.co.za)> on Friday July 12, 2002 @07:56AM (#3870140) Homepage

      Short answer: Yes, there is. Copyright is an agreement between copyright owners and consumers. The only reason distribution of copyrighted material is illegal, is because of that agreement.

      Unlike physical property, distributing immaterial property does not directly deprive the original owner of anything (you haven't "stolen" his property), just the potential of revenue.

      The principle of Copyright originated as a measure to encourage development of immaterial property by providing some protection to the original owner's potential revenue.

      One of the explicit goals of Copyright is that that property falls into the public domain at some point, that is, is no longer protected by Copyright. This goes hand in hand with encouraging development: before Copyright and Patent laws, the only way to benefit from immaterial creations was to keep them secret, and use them in the creation of physical property. This provides no benefits in terms of social advancement, which is why another system was required.

      DRM is simultaneously an illegal and a redundant protection for Copyrighted works. Illegal because there is no provision for making those works accessible when Copyright over them expires, or providing for fair use as envisaged under Copyright law. Redundant because Copyright law exists to protect Copyright holders, who should be making use of applicable law to deter offenses.

      Laws are give and take, especially ones like Copyright where an agreement between parties is involved. If a Copyright holder wishes to take action not permitted under Copyright law to protect their immaterial property (such as locking it, which will ultimately prevent it from falling into the public domain), then they are not upholding their side of the bargain, and cannot enjoy the protection of the law. Similarly, a consumer who breaks the law can be sued or incarcerated.

      In other words, the MPAA and RIAA can't have the best of both worlds: accept protection under Copyright law, or employ DRM but accept that if someone breaks your DRM scheme they can freely copy the uncopyrighted material.

      You also seem to miss the fact that Copyright law provides for a certain limited amount of copying on the part of the consumer. In particular, you have the right to transfer the copyrighted property to another medium, and most countries have enacted legislation permitted by the Berne Convention to allow limited distribution, such as to family members. DRM prevents the practice of both of these fair uses.

      But the DRM planned and in use by these companies goes even further: it is actively attacking systems which are "aggressive" to DRM, that is, built for ease of copying. Windows has reserved the right to disable non-DRM software on your PC, even against your will. Some DRM schemes crash or physically damage hardware. These are attacks which are legitimised solely on the basis of being distributed by reputable companies; but they are no more or less hostile than most virii propegating through the Internet today.

      A side word on P2P: the MPAA and RIAA have worked hard to villify P2P networks, which is a great pity, because they have the potential (and in fact are already used) to be much more than systems for transfer of Copyrighted property. P2P networks allow for better communication and collaboration, which makes them a suitable technology for any peer environment of this nature, including commercial employment, research work, etc.

    • but 1) Fair use, although I wouldn't really have a complaint, as long as I could exchange a scratched disc for a new disc.

      but more importantly,
      2) They want to copy-protect their creations? Fine. I have nor problem with that. I have a problem when they try to legislate it and require that all software must have DRM protection.

      I'd prefer that they'd actually do it the way DirectTV did to prevent hackers, pure technical superiority (If someone has a link it'd be appreciated.) instead of passing laws to make sure we can't ROT13 their code, or that we have to pay them to license an ROT13'ing code to view their movies.
    • No, but if you do release it, you only have that right for a limited period of time, after which it reverts to the public.

      Copyright is a right to temporarily give you that control over your material, but it has limits as well. It is not a license for never ending profits.
    • Someone says, "I can leave my new movie in my underwear drawer where noone can see it, or I can sell it to you under the condition that you will only be able to view it with devices that cannot easily copy the movie. Is there anything ammoral with this?"

      That would be fine as far as it goes. Let a content provider do whatever they damn please with their own content -- on their OWN dedicated content-playing devices.

      The problem arises when the content provider also says, "Oh, and by the way, we're also going to disable your general-purpose hardware and software, so you can't view *anything* except OUR content how WE want you to."

      Which is effectively what the current DRM crusades are out to accomplish.

    • Re:Hmm (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Sloppy ( 14984 )
      You have a decent point. That said, I think this part is wrong:
      if the recording companies can make it hard enough (with only allowing DRM devices to play their content, ect) they can make it so that the customer who is "on the fence" between warezing and buying it (i.e. someone who could do either) makes the right choice because warezing it is tedious.
      You are missing one of the aspects of copy protection and piracy: only one person has to crack it, and then the content is out.

      The recording companies can make it hard enough for Joe Schmoe to crack the DRM, but they don't have any way to keep Joe Schmoe from spreading around the "warez version" that was cracked by someone who was willing to endure the tedium. The "on the fence" guy is not going to be heavily influenced toward making the right choice, because "warezing" it is not tedious. Cr4ck3rD00D already did the tedious part for him.

      The only people who are burdened with tedious stuff, are the ones who don't want to pirate anything, and just get their damned DVD player hooked up, only to find that it doesn't work because it's trying to pass the signal through the VCR.

      Macrovision has stopped many casual copiers.
      That's hard for me to believe, but I'll take your word for it. But when those people were "stopped", I bet it was in a time before anyone could easily download a movie from the 'Net. There aren't any technical headaches anymore and there never again will be any, unless the recording companies can prevent people from communicating with one another.

      Ultimately, copy protection doesn't slow down infringement (especially now that the internet is here) but it does do collateral damage. It's nothing for something.

  • Oh, and BTW (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 12, 2002 @06:32AM (#3869833)
    MacInTouch [macintouch.com] has their usual good coverage on this. Be sure to read the EULA so you grasp the reason for complaints. Blocking illegal copies is one thing....controlling my computer and/or what does or doesn't go on it without my permission, for any reason, is another.
  • GPL'ed burning utils (Score:3, Interesting)

    by theolein ( 316044 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @06:43AM (#3869862) Journal
    A quick look at freshmeat showed quite a lot of stuff that does burning on *BSD and Linux. Although burning is very low level stuff, I'm sure that porting these utils , the commandline ones and adding an applescript gui to them wouldn't be such a chore.
    • cdrecord and cdrdao for command-line utils

      with xcdroast, gnome-toaster, etoaster, and a whole sludgleload of others. (I don't feel like finding the urls right now, but they are all generally released with your favorite distro's packages.
  • i just use iTunes. i only use toast for vcds, multiple sessions and other "non standard" disks.

    that and toast is horribly unstable on my box, i cant figure out why.

  • by 3seas ( 184403 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @07:03AM (#3869932) Homepage Journal
    I really don't want to be one to have to deal with trying to figure out what I can or can't do with a system.

    I think the DRM supporters need to focus their efforts on making their dedicated systems that don't allow the user
    to do anything by play or run the DRM stuff ony as they intend to allow the consumer.

    and then we should have another type of system that allows creativity, innovation, etc.. by and for those who want
    such a system.

    And so that there is no conflict, the open system simply rejects DRM stuff, where to use DRM stuff on such a system,
    a special version of that item must be purchased.

    Some of us bought a Computer in order to be creative, and I think it's theift for others to sneek in and take this
    away, especially in doing it the little by little way.

    Why don't they just go make their own DRM system, or do they know it won't sale? And if so, then isn't it theift by intention?

    All I know is that I don't want the maybe it's work, maybe it won't crap wasting my time.

    DRM is like a virus infecting and crippling what is otherwise a versatile system.

    I rather make a clear distinction between what I can be creative with and not.

    I'm not a pirate, and I don't like my creativity being taken from me because others feel they have to muscle in on it.
  • In the meantime (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Choco-man ( 256940 )
    use a version of toast below 5.1.4. 5.1.4 doesn't really add anything earthshattering and necessary, and it forces you to agree to unsolicited, unnotified, unreviewed software installation on your machine.

    bottom line, don't use the software that offends you. if people stop buying the software, they'll stop doing this sort of thing. use 5.1.2 or whatever version you currently have.
    • I installed the 5.1.4 update and for some reason it left 5.1.3 in the folder with it. When I run that copy it says 5.1.3 in the corner and an About... gives me the same number. Not sure why it did this, maybe it's some OS X thing, or the Roxio's update isn't quite thorough enough. I guess I'm glad I didn't delete the old version immediately.

      Presumably, you can just delete everything and install the version you purchased. I think the one I originally installed was version 5.0.something.

      Besides, as has been pointed out many times already, OS X has adequate CD and DVD creation and burning tools already. To be honest, I'm not sure why I installed Toast . . .

  • by Kevinv ( 21462 )
    Not sure about DVD burning but I got rid of both Toast and Charismac's Discribe [charismac.com] and just use the built-in cd burning software.

    Does everything I need from burning files or whole .dmg images to cd to making audio cd's via iTunes.

    And I don't have to deal with Roxio's obnoxiousness.
  • It has been my impression that the reason Toast has remained the only player in the Apple MacOS space has been its excellence. It allows you to do almost anything with its toolset, and is so easy to use that even users whose needs are modest enough that Apple's built-in CD-burning would do 99% of what they want go out and buy it. This new move to enforce DRM, if properly publicized, may finally produce an openning for a competitor to get a foothold. Now, it would not be "MacOS Favorite Toast" versus "Windows Invader Brand-X CD Burner." It would be "DRM-enforcer Toast" versus "Freedom Loving Brand-X CD Burner." Easy advertising copy and a ready pool of idealistic users ready to jump on the bandwagon.

    Any volunteers?

  • If you had been paying attention these changes were announced back just before Toast 5 was released. I read it on Maintouch or Maccentral. It took nearly a year for this to appear in the EULA, but is no surprise to me.

    Toast is certainly easy to use, but there are other options out there. If you are making audio CDs you can just use iTunes.

    If you're backing up other files why not use the built in (X at least) Disk Copy? Again, not the easiest solution, but a possibility.
    • This may be Roxio's bic problem, as Disc Burner and iTunes are pre-installed and do the job well for so many Mac owners.

      As far as third-party drives are concerned, Toast may still be the "tool of choice", but it's not as if they're alone out there. If they get too restrictive (instead of the current token bone thrown to the lawsuit-happy record companies), they may find current users like myself jumping ship.

      Heck, Discribe was offered for free as a subscriber's bonus in my last Macwelt issue. I may install that now...
  • by fjms64 ( 586828 ) <francois AT fsconsult DOT com> on Friday July 12, 2002 @07:19AM (#3870002) Homepage
    First some context:

    - I have a legal copy of Toast.
    - I have used Toast since version 4 came out and have been very happy with it.

    I am a computer consultant and regularly have to deal with reading contracts, usually written in legalese. While I am not a lawyer, my take of these things is that they are usually worse than they appear. So my take on that clause is that it gives Roxio the right to download updates to you computers at will, even when you are not looking (remember, it is allowed if it is not prohibited).

    I dont know many people who would be happy with that. Suppose they decide to download some piece of DRM code which crashes my computer, requiring me to spend a day rebuilding everything. Not good for my business and I cant sue Roxio for that even though they are responsible.

    This is not acceptable, it is like letting a car company come into your garage at night to mess with your car without your consent? I know I wouldnt let any car company do that, so why would I let a computer company?

    This type of restriction is unacceptable, I have gone back to the previous version of Toast and have let Roxio know about this.

    Cheers

  • Nero *was* coming out with a mac version of their cd/dvd burning software for Mac, but all mention of it has disappeared from their web site.

    Have a look at the google cache [216.239.37.100] of their home page for proof. :-(

    • Re:NeroMAX? (Score:3, Informative)

      by petree ( 16551 )
      In fact, neroMax was created. It was never available for download as a trial (like all other versions of Nero for PC), but only available for purchase. In fact it was actually bundled with some burners (Yahama Burners for example [nero.com]), but they never made a version for OSX. Their website said it required MacOS 8.6-9.2 and Classic API with Mac OS X is not supported. So even if this was available still, this wouldn't be a solution (certainly no better than running an older version of toast without these restrictions). But if you are interested in it I know there are copies of it floating around on hotline and on IRC that you could pick up and try out. I don't know that much about the Mac version (only used it once) but I know that their Windows product is far superior to all other burning applictions. By a long shot.
  • Discribe (Score:4, Informative)

    by firewort ( 180062 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @07:23AM (#3870018)
    http://www.charismac.com/Products/Discribe/discrib edata.html [charismac.com]

    Discribe for OS X is a great product- simple, does the job, without DRM hassles.

    • CD burning is built into MacOS X and works great.

      D
      • Sure, but it doesn't do all that a product can do. It's a nice simple solution, but with simplicity you lose the ability to do advanced things, such as:

        Supports DVD Audio and Video formats using UDF (Universal Disk Format)
        * Supports data writes using UDF
        * Supports writing the CD Extra format
        * Supports writing of Video CDs
        * Direct CD to CD copy allows you to copy from any CD-ROM drive to your writer
        * Can cache Disc to Disc image file to hard disk prior to writing.
        * Supports disc verification after writing data discs
        * Supports mastering bootable CD-ROMs for Mac OS 9
        * Allows true hybrid (HFS and ISO-9660) disc creation with HFS link to ISO partition for shared information
        * Multiple Orange book mastering modes including: Track-at-Once, Disc-at-Once, Multi-Session, and Multi-Volume
        * Supports ISO-9660 and ISO 9660 XA file formats with automatic and manual character conversion options
        * Firewire driver is iTunes and DiscBurner compatible and SDAP compliant, no need for multiple extensions sets to accomplish one task
  • That branding your customers as CRIMINALS and treating them as such is poor PR, and only ENCOURAGES what they call "crimes"?

    Unfortunately, I suspect soon ALL commercial CD burning programs will have DRM. And when that happens, it may be used as a wedge to kill off OSS/GPL'ed OS's and software, which will most certainly remain on the side of the user.
  • IANAL, but this probably doesn't offer them protection from prosecution or lawsuit if they trash your computer for two reasons:
    • The legality of click-wrap license is still debatable, possibly making all text within useless
    • Even if you do have a contract with someone, law doesn't allow you to give up basic protections under law. In other words, your little law made by contract doesn't supersede legislated law. And them messing up your computer is illegal.
  • I just can't seem to understand why hardware manufacturers are playing ball with Big Media. If there were ever a lawsuit against a hw company for copyright infrngement, wouldn't they simply point the blame at the user for the "misuse"? In my mind implementation of DRM make hw manufacturers responsible for their users' actions.

    If DRM-in-hardware were to effectively kill off open OS development and use, what are the chances that the DRM hardware companies be charged with collusory practices? Will there be "open hardware"?
  • Use Apple's own... (Score:2, Informative)

    by DuckWing ( 19575 )
    Use Apple's own Burn program. It's part of OS X and interfaces with iTunes. You don't have to look very far, or did you look at all?
  • by errxn ( 108621 )
    Don't upgrade.

  • by artemis67 ( 93453 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @10:02AM (#3870903)
    I know that if I was a shareholder of ROXI, I'd be pissed right about now. They are taking on a battle that they don't need to fight, and treating the customer as a criminal.

    The only thing this is going to result in is a decrease in sales for Roxio, as people turn to alternative CD burning apps. As a management decision, it's just plain stupid and somebody needs to be fired.
  • I think I'll be dragging it into the trash rather than upgrading, unfortunately.

    One of the nice things about MacOS X is that all the standard Unixy command-line CD burning utilities work. So if you don't like toast, use cdrecord, mkisofs, etc. This isn't much comfort for the average non-geek, but I think most slashdotters can handle it with no problem.
  • by gelfling ( 6534 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @10:42AM (#3871157) Homepage Journal
    All these software companies would actually improve their business models and their bottom line if they simply made this their licence agreement:

    "We will do whatever the fuck we wish in order to suck money from you in any way we desire while at the same time limiting your ability to do what you want. You have no recourse no appeal and no fix. You are basically fucked so get over it. Everything you know, love cherish, want, need or desire is under our control and we may or may not allow you access to those things just as if we were Greek Gods are you were scrabbling in shit peons. If you don't fucking like that then move somewhere where they don't have electricity and people hunt each other for food. We own you, you be-otch so bend over and take it like a good dog. And anyone, ANYONE who has anything to say about this can get on their knees and sing into the purple mike. That is all. Now get back to work because we have expensive lifestyles for you to support."

    At least we'd know where we stand.
  • by Aqua OS X ( 458522 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @11:07AM (#3871334)
    This was posted to VerionTracker.com last night.

    I am the Toast product manager. I wanted to set the facts straight with respect to the 'Restrictions' section in the end user license agreement (EULA) that is displayed at installation of Toast 5.1.4 and Jam 5.0.1 (both the latest versions of our software). 1) Toast and Jam do not include any digital rights management (DRM) software. 2) Toast and Jam do not dynamically download and update any software on your system, either automatically behind the scenes, or upon your request. 3) Toast and Jam do not store and collect any personally identifiable information about you or what you record, or transmit anything to Roxio, any of its partners, or any content provider. 4) Toast and Jam do not restrict you from recording any content that you have the legal right to use. Toast and Jam use the same EULA that Roxio's PC burning product, Easy CD Creator, uses. Easy CD Creator leverages aspects of Windows Media Technology, which does include DRM components. Hence, the language in the EULA. Our EULAs are shared across both products because it saves time and money with respect to legal, documentation and translation into multiple languages. So no need to worry. All is well with Toast. Thank you for your continued support. Regards, The Toast Product Manager BTW - yes, you'll see that I have given our product 5 stars. I couldn't resist.

    Can someone update this story or what? Moreover, next time I adise -using- this software before posting a rant to slashdot ;)
    • Whether the current version of Toast actually contains malware is irrelevant. The point is that by changing the license agreement, they are claiming the right to install crap on your computer at any point in the future without further notice, and that sucks.

      As others have mentioned, Toast is unnecessary under Mac OS X anyway; Disk Copy and iTunes should do everything you need without DRM shackles.

    • a) So if this is really the product manager, why does roxio.com have nothing whatsoever like this, a disclaimer or anything, on their website? Toast is their big product, and they're publicly traded. You'd think bad PR is something they'd want to quash.

      b) If they have no intention of ever hitting users with DRM stuff, why the license agreement making users agree to allow Roxio control over their system?

      c) If this [com.com] doesn't make you a wee bit suspicious about Roxio and DRM, then you're naive.

      d) The people at Roxio are not nice folks -- they went after the excellent Open Source project cdrtoaster (a Tk front end to cdrecord) as being trademark infringement and forced a name change.
  • Get 5.1.3 here: (Score:2, Informative)

    by azav ( 469988 )
    http://softwareupdates.roxio.com/gm/Products/en/To ast/Titanium/v5/Toast_513_Ti_Updater.hqx

    The last update without DRM

    You may also want to investigate Discribe. It doens't have DRM.
  • If you don't tell them how you feel [roxio.com] they will have no reason to reconsider this kind of thing in the future. The link above goes to their "contact us" page. Use the customer service link.

    I hope everyone who had time to gripe here on Slashdot will also have time to submit a level-headed and reasonable explanation of why you are unhappy with this and will no longer support them by buying their products as a result.

    Make sure you point out competitors who aren't doing this, other software, etc.

    This kind of thing will be won battle-by-battle not with one definitive law or judgment. Do your part if you really care.

    --Rick

    • More specifically, the URL for submitting mail to customer service is here [roxio.com].

      Here's the message I sent them:

      "This message is regarding your new, changed, EULA. I read the message from your product manager stating that Toast for Macintosh doesn't have DRM components, but that's not the point. The point is that by changing your license agreement, you are claiming the right to install malware on my system at any point in the future without further notice. That makes me mad, and has turned me from a "customer" into a "former customer"."

      I took elements from this excellent post by "bnenning" [slashdot.org].

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